The Video Game Corporate War: Epic Games vs Apple and Google

[rusty_shackleford]

Very compelling argument, Timmy.

tencent timmy shilling for tiktok

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Tim vs. Tim. Who will win?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Spectacle]

Epic has clearly planned and prepared for this suit for a while, while Apple and Google are scrambling in response. Nothing is certain in the courtroom, but Epic wouldn't have started this if they didn't expect to win.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

Epic has clearly planned and prepared for this suit for a while, while Apple and Google are scrambling in response. Nothing is certain in the courtroom, but Epic wouldn't have started this if they didn't expect to win.

They had that video ready to drop, theres no doubt they had everything planned and pushed Apple into enforcing their TOS so they could play victim.

Id rather they all go down in flames, Google, Apple and Tencent Timmy

 

[abija]

Isn't it fucking retarded to even mention tiktok? Apple the saviors of the american way of life 111!!!!

 

[Alienman]

Tim is like a hitman for Tencent now.

 

[ultimanecat]

Epic has clearly planned and prepared for this suit for a while, while Apple and Google are scrambling in response. Nothing is certain in the courtroom, but Epic wouldn't have started this if they didn't expect to win.

Everyone expects to win on some level. And while I’m sure Epic has good lawyers, I’m also sure Apple and Google have dozens of lawyers who have been preparing for this possibility for a long time.

Epic is more the one scrambling here. I kind of doubt Sweeney is a true believer of the “12% and no more is the only fair rate”, because it opens up a “7 Minute Abs” problem:



What if someone says that 12% is unfair? Most of the evidence points to Epic understanding that Fortnite is not an evergreen business. They’re taking the massive revenue and install base Fortnite is providing and trying to forcefully crack into the digital marketplace business. On the PC it’s with paid exclusivity and giveaways, but so far there’s no real evidence people are actually using EGS to buy games over their competitors. So, how about use all that money, hire some fancy lawyers, and try to sue to run your own App Store on mobile platforms? Even if Epic’s chances of winning were minuscule, the potential benefits of winning are huge to them. Even a bad case can be worth a shot when you have tons of cash on hand and no business plan a decade from now.

 

[DalekFlay]

What if someone says that 12% is unfair? Most of the evidence points to Epic understanding that Fortnite is not an evergreen business. They’re taking the massive revenue and install base Fortnite is providing and trying to forcefully crack into the digital marketplace business. On the PC it’s with paid exclusivity and giveaways, but so far there’s no real evidence people are actually using EGS to buy games over their competitors.

This definitely cuts into any claim of great business awareness by Sweeney. You can get people to use the EGS with freebies and temporary exclusives, but then you have to give them a reason to come back when those things aren't there, which he has not done even a tiny little bit. I can't believe their client is still what it is. Why pay god knows how much to give away games like GTA4 and a brand new Total War only to remind people your client isn't that great so they run back to Steam when they're done with those games? Baffling.

 

[V_K]

I think what might hurt Epic's case against Apple the most is Fortnite being free to play. So Apple might spin it that their cut on the in-game currency is license fee for using the AppStore infrastructure and dev kit, and by allowing other payment methods Epic is cheating them out of this fee.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Tim vs. Tim. Who will win?

They're just proving his point about closed operating systems.

Cutting off all development access because of an unrelated legal disagreement?

Seriously though, Tim Sweeneys dick must be 10 feet long. Most megacorps are terrified of upturning the Apple cart, let alone some sperg who makes games.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

What a bunch of commies. Next they would sue a landlord for evicting you because you didn't pay rent then complain he took the key and don't allow you in anymore.

 

[Fishy]

I'd have thought (Epic) Tim would have had a stronger case had he not:
1) signed up the TOS for the Apple Store
2) violated those terms

Blatant breach of contract seems like a bold strategy. If he feels like him having agreed to a contract didn't matter and he should be able to do what he wants, well, good luck with stuff like his own store's TOS or Unreal Engine's EULA.

But then, I know fuck all about law, and even less about US laws, so maybe breaching contracts is just fine.

 

[Drakron]

But then, I know fuck all about law, and even less about US laws, so maybe breaching contracts is just fine.

Nope, its not.

You can try to void the contract if the clauses are illegal and you can argue that clauses are illegal but what Epic is arguing is that Apple is a monopoly and this isnt about their contract, its about a specific clause in the contract because they dont like the 30% and they could argue that but instead decided to sneak in a way to not pay Apple, pretty sure Apple lawyers will also point that out, that Epic first violated the TOS they signed and only after they were caught and banned they sued Apple over the TOS.

And even if the court agrees that Apple cannot do that, they can still say Epic to shove it because of how they gone about it since even if Apple is not allowed to set a 30% cut doesnt mean Epic can put their games in the App Store.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Gook]

I don't know much about legal matters but I hope Tim Sweeney ends up getting the death penalty.

 

[Drakron]

And even if the court agrees that Apple cannot do that, they can still say Epic to shove it because of how they gone about it since even if Apple is not allowed to set a 30% cut doesnt mean Epic can put their games in the App Store.

but then they would have to allow epic to bypass app store

No, the court can decide the 30% is not legal but that doesnt mean Epic can just sell whatever in the App Store, meaning Apple cannot have a clause saying all payments incur a 30% cost but at the same time Apple can still refuse Epic since, it *is* their store, they can refuse and also they can say Apple is entirely entitled to have their OS closed to 3rd party.

Epic is doing some real reaching and mental gymnastics because their whole argument bogs down to "App Store makes most money out of microtransactions and we want to set how the App Store works" since Apple isnt a monopoly and you are entirely free to set your own prices running your own store by using Android OS since notice how they dont talk about Google Store much, that is because you can install apps outside Google Store in Android OS, its just not as easy and you get a lot of "are you sure?" because Google Store (just like App Store) runs a certification system so the applications are safe, this is also a argument Apple will use because they do test applications so they are safe to run.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[NJClaw]

I wish I hadn't opened this thread. I want to unlearn all of this. Please let me unsee that Fortnite ad and let me forget the "#freeFortnite" thing.

 

[Snorkack]

Create service.
Tell people they can sell their products on your service as long as they pay you some % of it.
People sign the TOS and start selling their product.
People then get mad and try to bypass your service by not following the TOS.
You kick them out of the service.
People claim you have a monopoly on your own service.


So... why is not Epic allowing devs to sell their games on Epic Store for free again?

I enjoy this dumpster fire as much as the next guy, but this is a false analogy.
If a pc games dev doesn't like Epic Store's TOS, he goes to Steam. Or Gog. Or itch.io or self publishing or whatever.
If a mobile dev doesn't like Apple App Store TOS, he's fucked. There's just no reliable way to distribute your ios shit other that with app store.
I'd really appreciate if some supreme court or eu commission or whoever rules in favor of Epic and incidentally puts an end to any anti-consumer hardware gating whatsoever.
And what really would be, you know, epic, is if that same instance also declared in-app purchases and lootboxes as gambling with all thereby arising legal implications.

 

[Fishy]

If a mobile dev doesn't like Apple App Store TOS, he's fucked. There's just no reliable way to distribute your ios shit other that with app store.
I'd really appreciate if some supreme court or eu commission or whoever rules in favor of Epic and incidentally puts an end to any anti-consumer hardware gating whatsoever.

That would be "interesting" as it would also crack open nintendo/sony/microsoft and any other kind of consoles. On one hand, I can appreciate the benefits to homebrew, on the other hand I'm not sure what the consequences would be for the financial viability of consoles altogether.

 

[NJClaw]

If a mobile dev doesn't like Apple App Store TOS, he's fucked. There's just no reliable way to distribute your ios shit other that with app store.

But why should you be able to distribute your software on a proprietary platform if you don't want to put up with that platform's terms of service?

Apple has a very strong product owned by a lot of people. If a mobile developer wants to distribute his software on that product, it's only fair to assume that Apple should be allowed to define under what conditions that can happen. There's no reason why anyone should be able to benefit from the strength and spread of an Apple's product without Apple's consent. (#noMeansNo)

 

[Snorkack]

on the other hand I'm not sure what the consequences would be for the financial viability of consoles altogether.

who gives a shit?

 

[Snorkack]

If a mobile dev doesn't like Apple App Store TOS, he's fucked. There's just no reliable way to distribute your ios shit other that with app store.

But why should you be able to distribute your software on a proprietary platform if you don't want to put up with that platform's terms of service?

Apple has a very strong product owned by a lot of people. If a mobile developer wants to distribute his software on that product, it's only fair to assume that Apple should be allowed to define under what conditions that can happen. There's no reason why anyone should be able to benefit from the strength and spread of an Apple's product without Apple's consent. (#noMeansNo)

Would you also be fine with twitter banning any accounts that they deem have a "wrong" opinion?