Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Jick Magger]

Is there somewhere on Steam where you can just see the straight up number of copies sold? In any case, I hope Inxile is open with it's sales number, still curious how well SRRs actually did. I imagine they won't bother reporting them unless they sell a lot.

Nah, pretty sure Valve keeps sales numbers confidential. The best sellers list is usually the best most have to go on if the game isn't being sold at retail.

 

[Roguey]

That's the one yeah, peak number seems pretty low, although they're apparently higher than all of the fallout titles save New Vegas.

It's significantly better than all the other early access RPGs. The only one that comes close is M&MX at about half the number. A $60 beta for a single player RPG isn't going to be a huge seller.

Also, as more time passes it becomes difficult to figure out total copies sold when compared to peak players. For example, AoD has only had 81 playing at once, but they've sold over 3,000 copies on Steam.

 

[DeepOcean]

Earlier in this thread people were referencing some statistics on steam that showed the highest number of players, and average number of players on Wasteland 2, how do I navigate to that page?

You mean this one?

That's the one yeah, peak number seems pretty low, although they're apparently higher than all of the fallout titles save New Vegas.

Is there somewhere on Steam where you can just see the straight up number of copies sold? In any case, I hope Inxile is open with it's sales number, still curious how well SRRs actually did. I imagine they won't bother reporting them unless they sell a lot.

Shadowrun returns stayed on top 10 for more or less a week (keep in mind that it had a weak competition at the time), that means quite a good amount of units sold (that is why they had the money to upgrade the Berlin DLC to a full fledge campaign). Wasteland 2 stayed on the top 10 for less time but it costs 60 dollars, it is Steam Earlier Access, those two things scare alot of Steamers(without mentioning the more pronounced competition). I would say they've made more or less the same amount of money that Shadowrun Returns and it's still a beta, more than enough to buy a few more months of development time (with the way Wasteland 2 is now, they gonna need it).When they release the final game, they gonna sell ALOT more.

 

[Lhynn]

snip

From my own observations:

Coordination - its a decent stat, ive got no problem with it giving AP as there are other stats that also grant it and there is not much difference between the average and the max. you will probably get to shoot once anyway so every round you waste a couple APs.

Luck - Good stat, can surprise you with extra turns, more hp, and lucky evades, definitely invest some points in it.

Awareness - dumb stat, if too low it renders the game unplayable, if too high most stuff becomes trivial, because of the nature of sequence, min 8 points in it. Why it gives you 2 of sequence instead of 1 or .5 a point is beyond it, it just works to further separate those that have it low from those that have it high.

Strength - p. good stat, 2 points if you are not planning to go in front, a lot more if you want to lead the charge with melee.

Speed - really makes a difference on how far you can go, but it dont belong on basic atributes, should be a skill called atlethism or something. in a game with ranged weapons movement is not that important tho, unless you are the psycho wielding the knife.
Which brings me to my other point, melee fighters are a lot more MAD than gun wielders.

Intelligence - This is related to the issue i got with skills, why the fuck would you ask for 2 points to level skills, and then jump to 4, and then im guessing to 6? why not 1, 2 and 3? it makes no sense. the whole skillpoint system seems poorly thought out and implemented.

Charisma - you have like 5-6 charisma related skills and a main stat in a combat game? this stat is superfluos, youll more than likely have 3 characters with charisma 1 and one with charisma a bit higher just in case. scrap it, feed it to the dogs, lose it.


This are all considerations concerning early game, maybe (probably) will change the farther you go and stuff will fall into place. Well everything but charisma, seriously.

 

[hiver]

Kindergarten level diatribe

You really know how to stack your shit high hiver, it's impressive how you can spread out what is basically you saying nothing to the point where it looks like the opening to Star Wars.

Youre projecting again, shitbrain.

Star wars?... funny that you mention it but you look and sound like some shitfaced evok more and more.

It is you who des

perately tries to use argumentum ad absurdium by inventing that im saying that for all skills.

That was a completely different discussion retard, try to keep up. The comment you responded to was directed specifically towards the skills you mentioned.

No it wasnt you stupid shit. Its the very same "discussion" - where you stupidly just invent retarded shit because your brain malfunctions and you dont really have anything to say except just pretending that its all great and youre winning in that way.

I was replying to this pearl:

Onholyservicebound said: ↑
You say the skills are doubled up superfluously and you only need one skill,

and this... discharge of fecal brain matter:

You want surgeon to be a skill, that lets you unlimitedly res your party while in combat, remove all status effects for free, also in combat, as well as provide bonuses to each and every single health based consumable?

And this:

Picklocking and safecracking are different things, it doesn't take knowledge of the craft to come to this conclusion.

- according to you someone who can crack safes cannot pick an ordinary lock

and this:

The question would have to be whether or not the surgeon is capable of using his skill during combat,

No, absultely not. surgeons refuse to help anyone and save lives if there is combat about.

I havent said anything that stupid as you think

Yes you have, and the only person who labelled it as stupid was you, which is doubly hilarious.

Feel free to quote me you stupid pathetic strawman hemerhoid.

It cant be that hard.

but your argument revolves entirely around how "I dinint say nothing!".

what we were saying about strawman arguments before moron? hmm? How about logical fallacies? eh, you little shitbrain?

 

[sea]

Roguey, you probably can't see from the wiki, but the attributes have weird thresholds. I.e., having 3 Int gives you 3 skills points per turn, and only at 6 Int you get 4 per turn, so 4 & 5 Int is pretty worthless.

All attribute bonuses work like this, so you're mostly juggling bonuses at character creation... You start with Luck 3, but Luck 2 also gives you 2 Evade, so you should either increase to 4 for 3 evade, or decrease to 2, with no Evade reduction.

That also work for Action Points, in a weird way... with 10 Coordination (everything else 3) you get 10 AP, but 10 Awareness, Speed, Strength or Intelligence gives you 7 AP only. And the progression makes no damn sense, especially since it's hard capped at 10 AP (even with 10 Coord & 10 Speed, you still get 10 AP).

The game "tiers" skills and attributes. I'm not sure it's the best idea though. I'd rather see them simply get more expensive as they approach level 10, it's less confusing that way.

 

[felipepepe]

I find retarded that the only way to get 10 AP is with a high coordination... the lack of secondary attacks for melee weapons make it even worse.

Blunt weapons need 4 AP to attack, so you'll have to make a character with 8 AP, otherwise you're just attacking once and wasting all the other APs. With bladed weapons costing 3 AP, you either go for 6 or 9, but if you want 9 you'll have to spend a lot in Coordination, that gives you a pointless ranged bonuses...

 

[aris]

I find retarded that the only way to get 10 AP is with a high coordination... the lack of secondary attacks for melee weapons make it even worse.

Blunt weapons need 4 AP to attack, so you'll have to make a character with 8 AP, otherwise you're just attacking once and wasting all the other APs. With bladed weapons costing 3 AP, you either go for 6 or 9, but if you want 9 you'll have to spend a lot in Coordination, that gives you a pointless ranged bonuses...

Can't you use the remaining AP to do other stuff?

 

[Lhynn]

I find retarded that the only way to get 10 AP is with a high coordination... the lack of secondary attacks for melee weapons make it even worse.

Blunt weapons need 4 AP to attack, so you'll have to make a character with 8 AP, otherwise you're just attacking once and wasting all the other APs. With bladed weapons costing 3 AP, you either go for 6 or 9, but if you want 9 you'll have to spend a lot in Coordination, that gives you a pointless ranged bonuses...

Got no problem with pointless bonuses, why do they bother you? its not like they hinder you. and going with 9 points will still be a waste most of the time as you have to run towards the enemy more often than not. so youll end up just attacking once or twice.

 

[felipepepe]

Got no problem with pointless bonuses, why do they bother you? its not like they hinder you. and going with 9 points will still be a waste most of the time as you have to run towards the enemy more often than not. so youll end up just attacking once or twice.

Pointless bonuses bothers me because ranged characters don't have then; they can reach 10 AP just investing in Coord, and get +10% hit chance on top. Even the "melee stats", strength, gives them Hit Points, that are way more useful than ranged bonus to melee characters.

Can't you use the remaining AP to do other stuff?

Move or heal, really. You can swap for a secondary weapon that has a cheaper AP cost, but so far I've only found blunt weapons with 4 AP and slashing with 3 AP, so you would be using 2 different skills. Is not a bad set up, my best character had 10 AP and could either fire twice with her assault rifle for 5 AP each, or burst for 6 AP and then switch to the shotgun pistol and fire for 4 AP.

But still, fells horribly limited when you looks at games like AoD:

Or even Fallout, where most weapons had a secondary attack. There's no reason for not having more options for melee characters.

 

[Gord]

Secondary attack? There was something besides aimed shot and normal shot for guns/EWs?

By the way, judging the picture showing those options, AoD seems bloated already.
Not that I wouldn't prefer a few options for different attack types other than aimed and normal attack.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Secondary attack? There was something besides aimed shot and normal shot for guns/EWs?

You could thrust/swing or thrust/throw with most melee weapons (at least in FO2, not sure about FO1).

 

[Lhynn]

snip

True, the game is too MAD for melee characters. Wish skills points were a bit more plentiful so you could actually invest in 2 weapons without feling like a total fucktard.
That dont have much to do with worthless bonus tho, im ok with stats infuencing a lot of things, wether you use those things or not is up to you.

 

[set]

Charisma probably needs a combat effect. They should probably scrap Leadership and make its effects come from Charisma.

 

[tuluse]

Charisma probably needs a combat effect. They should probably scrap Leadership and make its effects come from Charisma.

I think leadership is likely affected by charisma, but the relationship between attributes and skills is not explained.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Charisma probably needs a combat effect. They should probably scrap Leadership and make its effects come from Charisma.

I think leadership is likely affected by charisma, but the relationship between attributes and skills is not explained.

It was explained, I think by BN ,that it affects the rate in which npc player party revolt against the pc.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Onholyservicebound said:
You say the skills are doubled up superfluously and you only need one skill,

and this... discharge of fecal brain matter:

This was a quote from you, you slackjawed retard. You're too stupid to remember your own comment.

You want surgeon to be a skill, that lets you unlimitedly res your party while in combat, remove all status effects for free, also in combat, as well as provide bonuses to each and every single health based consumable?

And this:

That's exactly what combining those skills would achieve dumbfuck, which is what is implied when someone says:

the skills are doubled up superfluously and you only need one skil

Picklocking and safecracking are different things, it doesn't take knowledge of the craft to come to this conclusion.

according to you someone who can crack safes cannot pick an ordinary lock

That's a bit ironic of you to say when you've been whining about me speaking for you throughout this entire argument. Whether or not the person can crack safes and pick locks is entirely dependant on whether or not you take the skill. It isn't an argument about what is likely, nor do I give a shit what someone is likely to have learned. The fact is that they are different things, that's why there are two different terms invented for them, what individual skill your character has learned is dependant on whatever background you decide for them. You mistakenly believe your argument about how someone who can do one thing should ideally be able to do another by proxxy is an end all. It isn't.

you look and sound like some shitfaced evok more and more.

dont really have anything to say except just pretending that its all great and youre winning in that way.

fecal brain

hemerhoid.

shitbrain

 

[set]

The skills need to be separate for balance reasons, I agree. Maybe they should rename the skill, "Bonesurgeon" or ""Surgeon"", or maybe, "Doctor Hack" - or something simiarly implying that the surgical skills you have are ad-hoc but effective nevertheless. In order to make death actually matter, they should perhaps consider tying consumable items for use with the skill, like a bonesaw or surgical knife that has limited uses before breaking.

 

[JParabellum]

Skill Name

IQ

SKP

Notes

Brawling



Covers all melee attacks, other than fists orknives.

Climb

Trained on the sand dunes in SENeedles.

Clip pistol

All new characters start out with a clip pistol so it's a good idea to train.

Knife fight

Coversknivesonly.

Pugilism


Covers fist fighting.

Rifle


The use of rifles in combat.

Swim

This skill maxes at 6 in the river on themain map.

Knife throw

CoversThrowing knives.

Perception

Provides additional information in various places in the game.

Assault rifle


AT weapon



SMG



Acrobat


On the sand dunes in SENeedles, you can max this skill to 3.

Gamble


This skill can reach level 10.

Picklock



Silent move



Combat shooting



Only available on the PC version and only at character creation.

Confidence



Sleight of hand



Demolitions



Forgery



Alarm disarm


Bureaucracy



Bomb Disarm


Medic


Reverts seriously wounded characters to unconscious.

Safecrack



Cryptology


Metallurgy



Only used in the Mine.

Helicopter pilot



Only trainable atSleeper Base.

Electronics



You can max this skill to 5 inBase Cochise.

Toaster repair



RepairBroken toastersin theGuardian Citadel.

Doctor



Reverts seriously wounded characters to unconscious. More effective than Medic.

Clone tech



Clone your characters atSleeper Base.

Energy weapon



Cyborg tech



Trainable atGuardian CitadelandSleeper Base.


These are the skills from the first Wasteland. As you can see some of the skills here are not present in Wasteland 2. But Safe Crack and lock pick were separate here. Doctor and Medic were also separate.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

set
Curiously there's an npc that you can use surgeon on, afterwards the game states that he's going to need some professional medical attention and adds a mini quest to report it. Kind of a hit to the ego of a surgeon right?(Unless maybe it was just my skills being too low or something.)

Combat shooting doesn't do anything? That sucks, i thought it increased the accuracy of all ranged weapons, I wasted points on that.

 

[JParabellum]

Hey Brother None... I think we should have a couple of guys bickering endlessly in Wasteland 2 somewhere.. base them off of Hiver and Onholyservericebound... (Sorry guys but I think it would it would be funny)...

 

[Zombra]

Anyone wishes to comment on the writting?
Haven't played the beta, and these skyrim memes have worried me about quality of writting.

I haven't gotten too far into it, but the writing I've seen ranges from serviceable to good. Some characters are annoying; others are forgettable; others are cool and interesting. The flavor text describing locations and so forth is largely pretty good and always worth reading, being entertaining, informative, or both.

 

[Ravel myluv]

Ok, thanks a lot for the feedback!

Hope they can add some flavor to the text before release! Some of their concept arts for the NPCs were brilliant, and I would be very disappointed if these characters came out flat.

 

[Infinitron]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5262&start=60#p87662

Great thread, this.

We're doing a balance pass on attributes soon which will also include added functionality in how attribs tie in skills and better communication on that. Likely not this upcoming build which is coming very soon, but in a future build.

A few notes:

Awareness is definitely overpowered and will be re-balanced.

Speed will become more important as we roll in proper AP costs for things like skill use in combat.

Charisma, there's a few factors related to this attribute which aren't implemented right now. Feel free to put in some ideas here.

Luck really does quite a lot that's not necessarily obvious. It's an interesting attribute.

Leftover APs are something I've seen debated here and there so I'll just put it here; this is a tricky one. A straight AP-to-evasion bonus would probably not work well in a game where cover is an important factor. Some limited AP retention would help. Ideas and feedback on this are more than welcome (if I just straight up missed a thread lemme know, I've been pretty slammed of late)

Also interesting: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5533&p=87695#p87695

 

[Lhynn]

But i dont wanna make an account on another forum, id rather just take the lazy way to contribute, even if the chance of being noticed is dramatically lower.
The 'dex is all i need anyway. After all, if a developer of rpgs doesnt read the feedback in this forum, i honestly doubt anyone here actually cares for said developer.