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Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

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Why are there so few portraits for your PCs? I ask after seeing the really awesome Native American portraits at the rail nomads camp that fit one of my rangers way better than the shitty one with the pistol. Don't see the reason for not offering them all as options, not like the ones in game aren't already used multiple times, would be nice to have better variety. Can't be an issue of file size as they are already in the game.(I'll get them one way or another, but curious why so few were implemented to begin with.)
 

aratuk

Cipher
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Dec 13, 2013
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466
You should design around hard and scale down for easy.

I've always thought it would be nice for a game to be designed to have places that are too high-level to safely enter unless you've played from the beginning on hard (which would confer a bonus % to experience gains). In other words, optional areas of the game where difficulty doesn't scale down, so if you go in there on "easy" you'll be rent into tiny pieces.

In fact, how about making this a feature request for Wasteland 2...
 

Zombra

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Why are there so few portraits for your PCs? I ask after seeing the really awesome Native American portraits at the rail nomads camp that fit one of my rangers way better than the shitty one with the pistol. Don't see the reason for not offering them all as options, not like the ones in game aren't already used multiple times, would be nice to have better variety. Can't be an issue of file size as they are already in the game.(I'll get them one way or another, but curious why so few were implemented to begin with.)
Well yeah, take a screenshot, crop to 256x256, and put 'em in your customs folder.

As for the art being reused a bazillion times, well ... I was going to say there will be more portraits before release, but I don't have anything to base that on. There should be a bunch more portraits for character generation though, as the backer-only portrait pack was promised as a Kickstarter reward ... so there's that.
 

Tigranes

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Trying to do Rail Nomads Camp, isn't there a proper merchant in the entire place? Running out of ammo for the Atchison Camp entry battles and I don't want to go all the way back to Ranger HQ.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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This time I've gone all JE Sawyer:

Attribute balance suggestions said:
I'd like to provide my suggestions RE: the current character system's attributes.

My philosophy is that attributes = fixed properties of your character that define play-style, and skills = things that can be upgraded over the course of the game. Attributes should all be as naturally self-balancing as possible, with minimal overlap or redundancy.

1) Coordination

Right now, Coordination gives ranged to-hit chance, but this overlaps with various weapon skills. Instead, Coordination should increase ranged AND melee critical chance, from 0 to 5% in increments of 0.5 per level. This makes Coordination useful for all character types.

2) Luck

It's good, don't change it.

3) Awareness

Awareness is overpowered due to the number of bonuses it gives, and because it gives free turns at high levels. It increases effectiveness of a party member by 2x, which is insane.

I would move the initiative bonus to Speed instead.

I would also swap critical hit chance for bonus critical damage on melee AND ranged attacks to differentiate it from other attributes - 0-10% and 1% per level is fair.
4) Strength

Strength is fine as is.

5) Speed

Move the initiative bonus from Awareness here. Tweak Awareness to not give more turns in combat, but only increase priority in the combat round. This will still be useful assuming later-game enemies are balanced for it.

I would have Speed reduce the AP cost for using items and opening the inventory in combat. Currently, a medic character does not have any combat downsides, which reduces the distinction between a damager and supporter. Since the Field Medic skill relies on item use, this is self-balancing; a medic character with high Speed effectively gets more AP, but only as long as items are being used in combat. This also means players that have a fast medic get more buffer against party wipes.

6) Intelligence

Remove the AP bonus. It makes no sense and hurts the distinction between a combat character and a tech character.

I wouldn't mind Intelligence rewarding extra skill points per level. It could award half-points or quarter-points, so you get 1 bonus skill point every 2 or 4 levels. If the bonus is modest, it can still be worthwhile without being game-breaking (and tech-focused characters who have less AP, CON, damage etc. will need more skills).

7) Charisma

It's a dump stat right now and it has no place in the character system if all it's going to do is act as an arbitrary skill cap or another skill check.

One good use is to follow Arcanum's model and have it affect the max party size:

1-3 = 1 followers; 4-7 = 2 followers; 8-10 = 3 followers

This is powerful because each new follower means one free turn per combat round. Therefore treating Charisma as a dump for more party members is actually smart. It's still balanced by the party size limit, too. But, it isn't ideal because only 1 character in the party still needs it.

Attributes, generally, define what is possible for the CHARACTER itself, while skills define how that character interacts with others and the game world. However, the big problem with Charisma of almost any design is that it is inherently an outwardly-affecting attribute rather than one which only affects the owner. Therefore, this is a very hard attribute to justify, and it may be worthwhile to simply cut it.
 
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felipepepe

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Seems to me you nerfed Awareness and made Speed OP. =P

Also, Charisma is STILL a dump stats, because only the leader needs it, and the jump from 2 followers to 3 is just too expensive. The sad truth is, W2 is too combat-focused for Charisma to work.
 

kazgar

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Seems to me you nerfed Awareness and made Speed OP. =P

Also, Charisma is STILL a dump stats, because only the leader needs it, and the jump from 2 followers to 3 is just too expensive. The sad truth is, W2 is too combat-focused for Charisma to work.

Sounds like Awareness still influences initiative, so it becomes a more turns later vs less turns sooner tradeoff?
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
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Seems to me you nerfed Awareness and made Speed OP. =P

Also, Charisma is STILL a dump stats, because only the leader needs it, and the jump from 2 followers to 3 is just too expensive. The sad truth is, W2 is too combat-focused for Charisma to work.
Eh, if initiative doesn't give free turns, but only changes combat priority (which really only works out to 1 extra turn per combat) then I think it's balanced.

I realize the Charisma solution is not ideal. I was of half a mind to say "just cut it" but I do like the idea of a social attribute of some kind. It just needs to do something that also has a combat benefit as well. If the game had, say, morale, with charisma affecting it, that would be good, but I wasn't really recommending changes to the combat system itself.

Maybe Charisma could give a passive non-stacking bonus to nearby characters, like +1% accuracy and +1% DR per level, up to 5% each? Still only needs one character, but it does have more value (and it's not like you're gonna have more than one social character either).

Remember, later builds will have skill caps depending on attributes as well, so these things will also be balanced to a degree by the skill system too. A social character will still need Charisma for the social skills, for example.

Even so, it's a hard problem. Attributes should be inherent properties of the owner, which only directly affect the owner. Skills are what you use to interact with others in the party and game world. But since Charisma is inherently outwardly-focused, it makes a very challenging attribute to justify in a party-based game.
 
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Lancehead

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Speaking generally regarding health regeneration, I'd completely axe the automatic regeneration and introduce two types of healing resource items. The first type gives small amount of healing over a very short period of time, e.g., a few in-game minutes or a few turns. These items would be expensive and would be useful in combat or other situations with immediate danger. The second type gives large amount of healing over a very long period of time, e.g., a few in-game hours. These items would be relatively cheap and would be useful for recuperating after battles.

As long as the numbers are adequately tweaked alongside challenging combat, these items would introduce some resource management that is not cumbersome, and since healing is not instantaneous when to use the items becomes a tactical/strategic decision.
 

Lancehead

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Messages
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I don't know what those tents are. I'm speaking of different grades of healing items, like with stimpaks.
 

skuphundaku

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Besides, seems hypocritical that HP regen happens while inside areas, but not while traveling the world map.... this is obviously because it would make the damage from lack of water pointless, and that just shows how retarded HP regen is.
You can do it like this: While you have water, you heal while travelling on the world map. Once you run out of water, you start to get damage. This should be the only health regen available.
 

hiver

Guest
Why are there so few portraits for your PCs? I ask after seeing the really awesome Native American portraits at the rail nomads camp that fit one of my rangers way better than the shitty one with the pistol.
http://www.ign.com/characters/billy-predator
arsehole.

This was a quote from you, you slackjawed retard.
You are projecting again, stupid shit. Again quote me and quote the whole sentence you stupid motherfucker - not just a part which you take out of context to support your strawman arguments.

What you think that means is just a proof of how mindfucking stupid you are and is nothing but a simpleton unsupported statement.

That's exactly what combining those skills would achieve
No it wouldnt you retarded shitbrain.
Thats just what your stupid brain invents and thinks it would mean - because youre so bloody stupid. Moron.

You mistakenly believe your argument about how someone who can do one thing should ideally be able to do another by proxxy is an end all. It isn't.
Again, someone who can crack a safe cannot pick a lock - a surgeon cannot apply a bandage - weaponsmith cannot take weapons apart. - according to a ignorant retard - i.e. - you.

The fact is that they are different things
The actual fact is that they are not different skills at all - mega moron.

Locksmith is a skill in which at lower levels you are able to pick ordinary locks - and in (with) which on higher levels you are able to pick complicated locks - which safe locks ARE.

Medicine is a skill in which at lower levels you can do what a field medic does and at higher levels you can do what a surgeon does.


It doesnt really mean anything that a stupid ignorant shit like you is just braying, that those are different skills - all that achieves is that it shows how fucking ignorant and fucking stupid you are.
 
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skuphundaku

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Trying to do Rail Nomads Camp, isn't there a proper merchant in the entire place? Running out of ammo for the Atchison Camp entry battles and I don't want to go all the way back to Ranger HQ.
There is one in one of the rail cars close to exit that leads to the Atchinsons camp. If you found the rail car with the bar, the one with the gun merchant is right next to it.
 
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There's an easy solution for making this better, too - make health regenerate ONLY when the party is on the move and actually walking from place to place.

Hardcore, thorough, slower-paced players tend to play games slowly, but they don't walk around aimlessly. They spend lots of time standing in place, deciding on their next move.

I believe that such players can accept that, for instance, if they made a huge detour and backtracked somewhere, then it's okay that they've regenerated some health since then. What they can't accept is that because they're playing the game a bit slower than other people, that combat is now less challenging for them.

I got this idea from the old Quest for Glory games, where time would pass in the world only when you were walking around and doing things. Run around the forest like a maniac? Evening might arrive within minutes. Walk around town leisurely? The day will last much longer. It worked really well.

I think that the auto health regen should be related to the game difficulty.
If I (as a player) choose to play the game with difficulty set to easy or hardcore - the auto health mechanism should behave differently (novice - faster regen) or not exist at all (hardcore).
That way, it's a win-win situation.
Novice players who's just discovered CRpg (like my son) could play the game and survive the wasteland (and enjoy the game).
Hardcore players that played game or two in this genre (Like me) will probably set the game's difficulty to Hardcore (and enjoy a game without auto health regen).
Of course, We can use Infinitron idea (and others) and mix them all up - and try to come with a solution that is good for everybody.
But I think that the auto health regen (as a concept ) is a good feature - as time pass by our body heals... And time passes much faster in games than in the real world - so, it's just logically right that auto health regen will exist and effect the NPC's much faster.
 

skuphundaku

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There's an easy solution for making this better, too - make health regenerate ONLY when the party is on the move and actually walking from place to place.

Hardcore, thorough, slower-paced players tend to play games slowly, but they don't walk around aimlessly. They spend lots of time standing in place, deciding on their next move.

I believe that such players can accept that, for instance, if they made a huge detour and backtracked somewhere, then it's okay that they've regenerated some health since then. What they can't accept is that because they're playing the game a bit slower than other people, that combat is now less challenging for them.

I got this idea from the old Quest for Glory games, where time would pass in the world only when you were walking around and doing things. Run around the forest like a maniac? Evening might arrive within minutes. Walk around town leisurely? The day will last much longer. It worked really well.

I think that the auto health regen should be related to the game difficulty.
If I (as a player) choose to play the game with difficulty set to easy or hardcore - the auto health mechanism should behave differently (novice - faster regen) or not exist at all (hardcore).
That way, it's a win-win situation.
Novice players who's just discovered CRpg (like my son) could play the game and survive the wasteland (and enjoy the game).
Hardcore players that played game or two in this genre (Like me) will probably set the game's difficulty to Hardcore (and enjoy a game without auto health regen).
Of course, We can use Infinitron idea (and others) and mix them all up - and try to come with a solution that is good for everybody.
But I think that the auto health regen (as a concept ) is a good feature - as time pass by our body heals... And time passes much faster in games than in the real world - so, it's just logically right that auto health regen will exist and effect the NPC's much faster.
The problem with your proposal is that they would have to balance the whole game at least twice, once for hardcore and another time for non-hardcore. At that point, it would be almost like creating 2 different games. Of course, they could just half-ass it and balance it just for hardcore and then it would be piss-easy for non-hardcore or balance it for non-hardcore and make it gratuitously difficult for hardcore.
 
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There's an easy solution for making this better, too - make health regenerate ONLY when the party is on the move and actually walking from place to place.

Hardcore, thorough, slower-paced players tend to play games slowly, but they don't walk around aimlessly. They spend lots of time standing in place, deciding on their next move.

I believe that such players can accept that, for instance, if they made a huge detour and backtracked somewhere, then it's okay that they've regenerated some health since then. What they can't accept is that because they're playing the game a bit slower than other people, that combat is now less challenging for them.

I got this idea from the old Quest for Glory games, where time would pass in the world only when you were walking around and doing things. Run around the forest like a maniac? Evening might arrive within minutes. Walk around town leisurely? The day will last much longer. It worked really well.

I think that the auto health regen should be related to the game difficulty.
If I (as a player) choose to play the game with difficulty set to easy or hardcore - the auto health mechanism should behave differently (novice - faster regen) or not exist at all (hardcore).
That way, it's a win-win situation.
Novice players who's just discovered CRpg (like my son) could play the game and survive the wasteland (and enjoy the game).
Hardcore players that played game or two in this genre (Like me) will probably set the game's difficulty to Hardcore (and enjoy a game without auto health regen).
Of course, We can use Infinitron idea (and others) and mix them all up - and try to come with a solution that is good for everybody.
But I think that the auto health regen (as a concept ) is a good feature - as time pass by our body heals... And time passes much faster in games than in the real world - so, it's just logically right that auto health regen will exist and effect the NPC's much faster.
The problem with your proposal is that they would have to balance the whole game at least twice, once for hardcore and another time for non-hardcore. At that point, it would be almost like creating 2 different games. Of course, they could just half-ass it and balance it just for hardcore and then it would be piss-easy for non-hardcore or balance it for non-hardcore and make it gratuitously difficult for hardcore.

I don't think that balancing the auto health regen will be such a headache to the developers.
All I suggested was to re-balance the mechanism of the auto health regen.
Which means: set a different timer for the mechanism and/or disable it in hardcore difficulty.
If now every 10 minutes your party gain +1 to CON - after resetting the mechanism, depending on the difficulty the player choose, the auto health regen will work differently.
For example:
Novice difficulty - after every fight - return to full health (pills, blood etc... will be important only during battles)
Medium difficulty - every 5 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hard - every 10 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hardcore - No auto health regen Or, Hardcore - every 20 minutes: party gain +1 CON
And in the options menu they'll put a Checkbox to enable/disable that mechanism

Well, I guess you get the idea.

And as i said earlier, they can combine other suggestions and mix them up.
But in the bottom line, I think that this feature is nice and logically true.
 

skuphundaku

Economic devastator, Mk. 11
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I don't think that balancing the auto health regen will be such a headache to the developers.
All I suggested was to re-balance the mechanism of the auto health regen.
Which means: set a different timer for the mechanism and/or disable it in hardcore difficulty.
If now every 10 minutes your party gain +1 to CON - after resetting the mechanism, depending on the difficulty the player choose, the auto health regen will work differently.
For example:
Novice difficulty - after every fight - return to full health (pills, blood etc... will be important only during battles)
Medium difficulty - every 5 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hard - every 10 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hardcore - No auto health regen Or, Hardcore - every 20 minutes: party gain +1 CON
And in the options menu they'll put a Checkbox to enable/disable that mechanism

Well, I guess you get the idea.

And as i said earlier, they can combine other suggestions and mix them up.ng
But in the bottom line, I think that this feature is nice and logically true.
The problem is that in-location health regen obviates almost the entire healing game mechanic. The only thing that is still has any relevance with health regen is Surgeons being needed for healing injuries. Everything else goes right out the window when you can just take a coffee brake and have your party healed when you come back.
 
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I don't think that balancing the auto health regen will be such a headache to the developers.
All I suggested was to re-balance the mechanism of the auto health regen.
Which means: set a different timer for the mechanism and/or disable it in hardcore difficulty.
If now every 10 minutes your party gain +1 to CON - after resetting the mechanism, depending on the difficulty the player choose, the auto health regen will work differently.
For example:
Novice difficulty - after every fight - return to full health (pills, blood etc... will be important only during battles)
Medium difficulty - every 5 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hard - every 10 minutes: party gain +1 CON
Hardcore - No auto health regen Or, Hardcore - every 20 minutes: party gain +1 CON
And in the options menu they'll put a Checkbox to enable/disable that mechanism

Well, I guess you get the idea.

And as i said earlier, they can combine other suggestions and mix them up.ng
But in the bottom line, I think that this feature is nice and logically true.
The problem is that in-location health regen obviates almost the entire healing game mechanic. The only thing that is still has any relevance with health regen is Surgeons being needed for healing injuries. Everything else goes right out the window when you can just take a coffee brake and have your party healed when you come back.

True. (even though, using checkbox in the options to disable this feature, will guarantee that there's no such thing - problem solved)

It's obvious that the auto health regen needs a better mechanism or at least some balance work.
I'm just suggesting my ideas to make it more tolerable :).
After all, it's up to the developers to make it better.

By the way, I talked about +1 CON every 10 minutes or so. So, if I have a party member with 10/30 CON I'll need A LOT OF COFFEE until he'll regain his health...
 

skuphundaku

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True. (even though, using checkbox in the options to disable this feature, will guarantee that there's no such thing - problem solved)

It's obvious that the auto health regen needs a better mechanism or at least some balance work.
I'm just suggesting my ideas to make it more tolerable :).
After all, it's up to the developers to make it better.

By the way, I talked about +1 CON every 10 minutes or so. So, if I have a party member with 10/30 CON I'll need A LOT OF COFFEE until he'll regain his health...
Well, there are 2 aspects of this:
1. If you have health regen, most medicine-related mechanics become useless. Balancing the game for health regen falls within 1. and it would be a bad idea IMHO.
2. If you have a checkbox and balance the game for no health regen, then when you select the health regen, the game will be Wasteland 2 Lite, good for baby's first CRPG... which would be a valid use if I think about it. Care should be taken so that the player knows that he's not getting the whole experience by ticking that box
 
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Still talking.
Shut the fuck up already. :roll:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

They should do something about the bleeding status effect, I'd say make it have more intervals but that might make it too imperative to take field medic. Maybe make it happen over a longer period of time out of combat, in combat the 1 turn is fine, but out of combat it's so fast that trying to use items to fix it is pointless. every 5 seconds, or every 10 seconds would be good for bleeding, that way you can actually prevent it with your skill, instead of just losing all that hp simply because you finished the round.(As far as I know you can't start turn based unless in combat, am I wrong?) This will make field medic more useful as bleeding damage could possibly result in unconsciousness if not treated.

I agree that health regen is too fast, the actual number seems al'right, my party heals between 1-1-2-and 5hp(For the max str tank), that seems reasonable. Time could be doubled up on, I'd like to know what the health regen formula is based on, I'd prefer it to be a stat that doesn't grow, for example if my characters stay at that health regen rate it's fine, but if it's based off of health then blood packs will only become more useless as higher levels are reached, which sounds bad.

I can see why it's implemented, forcing people into skills is lame, although there are doctors, there's no way of knowing what path a ranger takes, for all we know they've killed all those doctors.(Yes idiots who kill doctors probably shouldn't live, but it still doesn't sit right with me.) There will still be loads of checks in the game that require those skills I'm sure, as well if they fixed bleeding so medic was actually useful there's that advantage. As long as combat is difficult, encounters plenty enough,(AG center for example, it would be crazy tedious to rest after every single fight in there, if you happened to be damaged by some pod or something.) and the time slowed down so it isn't a small investment to rest your entire party to full condition, then I can see medic still staying useful. Thing is, being alive is quite a bit more important than any other mechanic that's affected by skills, opening a safe is not imperative, healing is, you're either a. forced to take a medic, or b. forced to limit yourself from choices because it may involve killing a doctor.

If they were to remove the mechanic it might be a good idea to make blood packs usable by everyone, albeit significantly less effective.

So, tl;dr:
to balance the regen: 1.make sure hp regen does not scale with level.
2.Increase the time elapsed to heal again
3.Fix the bleeding effect so it isn't instant out of combat

Anyhow, even if health regenerated at 1 con per second out of combat it still wouldn't make medic useless. As long as there are combat situations(And I assume you don't heal in them because that would be retarded.) field medic will stay useful.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has almost surely already been reported, I experienced this way early on when I first played, but never got around to mentioning it. There is an exploit with perception where reloading a save lets you rescan NPCs. To test this I stood next to a group of npcs, scanned, saved my game, and then repeated. I did this many, many, many times to be absolutely sure that it wasn't a one time occurrence :D. I expect no reward for my service, I did it completely out of the kindness of my heart.

Also,
I think sabotaging the lights on the topekans should require a brute force check, unless it did and simply clicking it activated. But I don't think that's the case, anyway, in my game I accidentally the power by clicking it, which I really only did to see what it was. So yeah, brute force check, add one.
 
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hiver

Guest
tsk, tsk tsk... just lay here on the table and relax Onstupidretardationservicebound.

: opens stupid motherfukcer skull :

HEY MORON!!! (morooon...moroooon...morooon...) - when you claim someone has said something then you can quote that, cant you?

Do it, quote me where ive said what you stupidly keep claiming i have said.
Dont back down now! We have just started you stupid shit.

And then after that explain how the fuck does any of it mean what your shitbrain thinks it does.
and then explain how a field medic is a different skill then surgery. is it astronomy or something else too?

And how someone who can crack a safe cannot pick a lock - a surgeon cannot apply a bandage - weaponsmith cannot take weapons apart. - according to a ignorant retard - i.e. - you.


that's exactly what you're saying, what I just wrote is exactly what combining those skills would do

/

So you're telling me that limiting resurrection to being used after combat is unreasonable? Instead unlimited resing while in combat in an already easy as fuck game is a better solution because you think doing surgery while getting shot at should be something every surgeon can do?

You want surgeon to be a skill, that lets you unlimitedly res your party while in combat, remove all status effects for free, also in combat, as well as provide bonuses to each and every single health based consumable?


Explain how is this "what im telling you" slackjaw inbred retard.

Explain how is this "what i want"?

If your shitbrain is capable of actually explaining anything at all.
 
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Athelas

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I'm surprised they didn't comment (i.e. express outrage) on this:

wl25.jpg
 

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