Theseus: Journey to Athens - C&C RPG made in GMS 2

[hivemind]

how much can it cost to put a game up for sale on a website

like no way it wouldn't turn a profit through sale cuts

 

[Agesilaus]

No updates these past two days. I've been run ragged at work, and next week probably won't be much better. But I'm planning to do a decent amount of work on it Friday and the weekend so I can tick a few more boxes on my feature update checklist.

Bought the game and will play it in 4 days long weekend starting tonight.

I D1P (well more like day 2) simply for the setting and to support these games with different focus compared to AAA gaming. And it would seems that codex impression is positive so looking forward to play it.

Is there an estimate on how long the average playthrough?

Thanks for the support! I usually tell people a playthrough takes about 2 hours, but people have pointed out that it depends on the decisions you make. It is possible to be done in an hour if you make certain decisions (even less if you just die, of course).

Also, the prestigious developer badge (you need to claim yours, I think).

How to do that?

Btw i checked the review on Indie Game Picks and although you added a lot of great looking graphics in the main part of the game, the battle map needs some work. Look into UI too, i'm sure you can think of something. The black rectangles behind stats text are too basic.

The reviews and evertything is like a domino, the more you get will give you even more :D

Wonder if Yoyo Games, will add it to their news too. Maybe even their showcase reel for 2019, who knows.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll see about reaching out to Yoyo Games. You are right that they try to spread the word about GMS titles.

In terms of the dev badge, I'm not exactly sure how to get it. In my case, Infinitron showed up in my development thread and then I had it! He probably saw me saying that I wanted it.

 

[JarlFrank]

Agesilaus I didn't know Medea was a tranny:

 

[JarlFrank]

Agesilaus I killed the sow but the ending slide says "Phaia and her enormous beast still terrorize the countryside". After the battle it said the old woman managed to escape, but the beast was definitely dead. Probably the wrong ending slide.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

"Phaia and her enormous beast still terrorize the countryside"

I read breast instead of beast

 

[Agesilaus]

Agesilaus I didn't know Medea was a tranny:

Agesilaus I killed the sow but the ending slide says "Phaia and her enormous beast still terrorize the countryside". After the battle it said the old woman managed to escape, but the beast was definitely dead. Probably the wrong ending slide.

Uh yeah those are definitely bugs, I'll fix them and release the next patch Sunday. Thanks for spotting them

 

[Agesilaus]

Okay, major update is now live on Steam and the full version and demo have both been updated on Itch. Here are the details:

Major Patch 3/10/19:

INTERFACE UPDATES/IMPROVEMENTS:

- Scene transition is now automatic, except when on the road between Epidauros and Athens.

- During combat, hover your mouse over the enemy to see their name and health.

- Previously patched so that you no longer need to be so close to initiate dialogue.

- First screen now displays instructions.

- Shortcut key directly to inventory (press "i")

BUGS CRUSHED:

Medea's portrait now displays correctly.

Correct ending slide for Phaia shown when the player recruits the Krommyonian Sow.

Fixed King Aigeus’ name on the tactical combat level.

Fixed bug with Mortmal’s dialogue if you have the kidnapping quest.

I uploaded the demo to Steam, but for some reason I can't post it yet. I think I need to make a second store page, and then I need to go through the whole approval process again. That will take a week, unfortunately, and it's not in my power to speed them up.

For the next patch, I really don't have much to do in terms of the interface/ease of use stuff. Here's the remainder of my list:

- WASD movement
- More than 1 save slot
- Autosave before going to slides where you can die.

Otherwise... I'm free to start doing more content! The easy stuff is to get more pictures on the slides, but there are also quests waiting to be implemented.

And with that, I'm calling it a night. Work in the morning.

 

[AdolfSatan]

So, my voyage's finally over, and now I have some time to sink into this. How's that update coming along?

 

[Agesilaus]

So, my voyage's finally over, and now I have some time to sink into this. How's that update coming along?

I have not finished the autosave patch. I put it to one side when I found out that Steam rules restrict me from making announcements until the end of March and from doing any sales until even later (May, I think). So I focused on my Unity lessons and a new project I am making that will have a far more complex inventory and combat system. It's set during a particular 5th century siege.

Now that it is April and I am allowed to make a Steam announcement (which pushes it back up the algorithm rankings), I will put the unity/new project aside to go back and do it. What'll likely happen is I'll implement the multi-save and autosave function this month, and then hold off on content so I can time it with Steam allowing me to make a new sale (again, pushing it up the algorithm/putting it in the sale category).

I wish I could promise which day this month, but it depends on work and family commitments which are really hectic and unpredictable this month.

 

[Dreed]

I finally had enough time to play and finish this, if I had known the game had the most RPG mechanic, turtle riding, I'd have done so sooner, good job
I had no bugs while playing, and for a small improvment I'd recommend that since you can use the number keys to select dialogue options in the game, you could enable the same for the numpad, I'm used to it since the IE days
I left a small review on the Steam page if it can help, and I'll gladly replay once the new content is done

 

[AdolfSatan]

Will entertain myself with Teudogar until this is ready then! It usually takes a couple of years before I replay something, and I wanna tackle this with all the added features.

 

[Agesilaus]

I finally had enough time to play and finish this, if I had known the game had the most RPG mechanic, turtle riding, I'd have done so sooner, good job
I had no bugs while playing, and for a small improvment I'd recommend that since you can use the number keys to select dialogue options in the game, you could enable the same for the numpad, I'm used to it since the IE days
I left a small review on the Steam page if it can help, and I'll gladly replay once the new content is done

Thanks for the review and the suggestion! I've added the numeric keypad to my "to-do" list. I'm hoping to get the autosave and additional save slot done before next week. I think the autosave feature will be a big improvement for people who aren't saving frequently and probably get annoyed when they fail a stat check and die. Game content will wait until Steam allows me to put the game back on sale, but in the meantime I can continue working towards a (free) combat demo for the new title. I want to make a game with inventory management, itemisation, and interesting combat scenarios. I think a siege is the perfect setting for an ancient, party-scale combat game. Plenty of excuses for small-party skirmishes, raids, and "hold the wall" missions, and there's an excuse for siege machines and tactics that weren't used in regular pitched battles.

Will entertain myself with Teudogar until this is ready then! It usually takes a couple of years before I replay something, and I wanna tackle this with all the added features.

Can't argue with that, I reckon Teudogar is one of the best games out there. I only wish the Roman story-line was longer and the plot generally had more branches. Some party mechanics would be great, too.

 

[Agesilaus]

UPDATE 4/7/19

- additional save slot in-game
- Autosave when you enter each location
- New load screen at the main menu where you can access both save slots and the autosave.




Didn't have time to do much else, but given the feedback I think this is a significant patch. If you die, simply load the autosave slot and you will be back at the map screen prior to whatever killed you.

The only things left on my general improvement list are:

- WASD movement system
- use numeric keypad for dialogue options rather than just the regular number buttons

The rest of my to-do list consists of visual content and more quests/dialogues.

 

[HoboForEternity]

yeah i have been waiting for WASD movement to play it trough completely on top of savel slots hahaha

 

[AdolfSatan]

It's May already. WHERE'S MY UPDATE?

 

[Agesilaus]

It's May already. WHERE'S MY UPDATE?

All I have is excuses, but they are very powerful excuses. I was kidnapped by Battletech Extended 3025, aka robo-pokemon, aka I just got a 70 ton Guillotine mech and I put jump jets on it and I can core opposing mechs in one turn by flying behind them and alpha striking. I'm thinking I might switch over to PPCs/LRMs, but I'm not sure. Also, I did a few jury trials and other stuff since my last post.

Anyway, I did kind of let this go so let me try to do something ASAP. I didn't get drawn into a trial this week and I think I'll escape it next week. The game is now currently on sale for 20% off and I want to do the WASD movement and add some new content before that sale ends.

A guy has released a multi-episode let's play on youtube, too, so I need to post that.

 

[Agesilaus]

5/9/19 Patch

- WASD movement has been implemented.

The game was fundamentally designed for mouse/path-based movement, so when moving through small spaces the keyboard movement is a little awkward, but it's nothing I can't tidy up. It seems to be working fine, so I have gone ahead and released this initial keyboard movement patch, hope it improves the experience!

Also, I want it mentioned in the official historical record that I coded this movement stuff instead of immediately playing Battle Brothers: Warriors of the North. Battle Brothers is an excellent game and I am going to go play it immediately after this post, so if the patch breaks the game I suggest you go play Battle Brothers: Warriors of the North. It also appears to be on sale.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Ok, finally gave it a playthrough. Well, more like three or four to try different approaches. Loved the amount of branching there was, and overall was hugely pleased with the experience. Gonna write a review soon.

With that being said, I came across a host of little issues that, while no deal-breakers, on the whole do bring the overall quality of the product down. I've listed them by category.
I reckon nobody asked for my opinion, but I'm doing it anyways because I love listening to myself talk.

TEXT

Spoiler

Text's too pixelated, but that's an in-engine problem iirc.

Transition text ("lower town", etc.) is off-centered.

Why is the text on the opening screens on the lower right corner? Is that were you'd ever expect to find them anywhere else? Does that seem comfortable to read to you?

Text and image distribution* on the CYOA parts is the golden standard you should be after.

*Though for some reason there are some pictures which don't fill the entire width/lenght of the screen and it looks a bit awkward in those instances.

GRAPHICS

Spoiler

The pictures you chose are beautiful indeed, but the tone varies a lot amongst them, from slightly sepia or yellowish, to greyscale, to bluish... Correcting this would have taken 5' with GIMP and it'd look much more professional.

What the hell's up with that ugly-ass yellow square marker? And those green lines in combat mode are atrocious.

The light in front of interactive objects is just weird. The flavour text was great, would have loved more of it though.

Exit signposts are completely out of style with the rest of the game.

UI

Spoiler

Why can I access the inventory/char screen with the keyboard but only exit it by clicking return with the mouse?

Why does pressing "I" bring me to character screen instead of inventory... Why isn't there a "C" for that purpose, and "P" for partners (which by the way is completely useless as a screen since it provides no useful information)?

Add quick save/load buttons.

For that matter, when pressing esc in-game: There are save, but not load buttons. And the X might lead one to think it just closes the menu whereas it exits to title screen. Wut???
Why does it appear where Theseus is rather than centered in the screen?

Inventory music? No. Perhaps a simple unmusical or percussive sound. Two notes at most, but not a melody, please.

Music doesn't loop. If you dwell for long on a place or battle, the track ends and you're left with silence.

Every time I go back "home" the controls guide is displayed. This should happen only when I start the game and never again onwards.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Gave this another spin to try what I think were the last remaining options for me to play. Some last comments:

BROKEN QUESTS

Spoiler

Killing Ardalos in the harbour doesn't make him dissappear, meaning you can trigger this fight as many times as you want to farm DEX.

On the sow:
Rush to the door, pass the STR check, kill the old hag.
Head down, slay the pig. When I come back up, the text prompt declares the old lady as having escaped alive.
Killed the pig, but ending slides still declare it as living.

Killed Kerkyon, still shown as living on the slides.

SOME MORE DESIGN ISSUES

Spoiler

Some dialogues have the options numbered while others don't.

On some slides the continue button is on the left. On others it's on the right. Be consistent.

When I take my leave, is it really necessary to give me a prompt that describes my taking my leave? Just close the dialogue screen and save me that step.

"Journey onwards" Add the option to click either of the choices rather than have it work only thru keyboard input.

With that being said, I was pleased to find that every choice one can make leads to a satisfying output. Even if sometimes it means an awful death, heh.

Spoil me this please: Is there a solution to the Prokroustes quest on the way to Athens (other than being a manlet)? It's the only trial I couldn't manage to beat.

 

[Agesilaus]

Glad to hear you enjoyed it, and thank you for pointing out some remaining bugs. I will release another update soon to fix the quests you noted. Here are my responses to the spoiler parts:


TEXT

Spoiler

Yep, I am told it is an in-engine problem, I don't personally understand why it insists on displaying the text that way. Perhaps it doesn't like the resolution and the way the dialogue box is imposed over the background scene, but I can't seem to fix it.

Text is in the lower right during the intro because I have terrible instincts when it comes to visual layout. The intro layout was designed in-the-moment while programming, earlier in the project life than the CYOA scenes. The text/image distribution is better during the CYOA scenes because that part of the game underwent a few revisions; I had several different designs and had to deal with different image shapes/sizes which meant that sometimes the image is displayed above the text while sometimes it's on the right stretching from top to bottom. The intro images were all stretched across the page and the text did not need much subsequent editing, so I didn't revisit it.

I do plan to revisit the CYOA scenes because there are a handful that still lack images, so in the process I may well change the intro. There was a time when I wanted the intro to involve a couple of options that would start Theseus with +1 in a certain attribute, but I decided against it. Character generation will be in my next project, though.

Graphics

Spoiler

- Uhh, GIMP, right, of course. I did notice the difference in tone, but it never really set off any alarm bells. I used paint.net for almost everything. When I revisit the CYOA stuff to include more images, I'll see if I can't find a way of standardising the tone across all the scenes, thanks.

- They are a product of my artistic skill! There actually used to be a white line that went from the player character to the yellow square marker, too, but I got rid of it before releasing the first demo. I could pretend I was inspired by the ugly boxes from Crescent Hawk's Inception's combat and its stupid movement boxes, but no. All of my planning was focused on the primary source material and the writing/location content/plot-paths, and at the time I didn't appreciate the importance of other aspects of a game. I didn't concern myself with things that were ugly but functional, and I failed to ward off this issue by spending more time planning standardised interfaces prior to implementation.

- I needed a graphic that could be re-used for each object that could be examined, so some shimmering light or dust seemed like the right option. Maybe I should have asked the artist to put a glimmering light on certain objects, but that would require more foresight and it would hamper future updates (I wish to put more of this content; I can reuse the asset and easily add information about the classical world and mythology).

- They used to be green circles that I drew, but in light of feedback I switched them to the signs (post-release I think, or very close to release). I wasn't able to find the ideal asset and didn't want to bother the artist anymore, hence the difference in style, but in my mind I didn't think anyone would notice because of the lowered alpha setting.

UI

Spoiler

- Because of me. I am the one who denied you the ability to exit the inventory via a keyboard command. In fact, I also denied people the right to even access the inventory via a keyboard command, but I added that feature after feedback. I didn't think to make it equal and include an "esc" key function, I will go do so. In terms of the party screen being useless... yes, I suppose, but it does tell the player that there are 4 possible party members to find and it shows which ones have joined.

- Quick save and quick load? Okay, that can be quickly implemented, thanks.

- It appears where Theseus is because the player object is generating the menu. I am a masterful programmer who told the engine to use Theseus' x y coordinates. I will fix it.

- Ok, I will check what audio code I have for the inventory screen, I don't remember what music code I put there. As for music looping, I don't like it so it was intentional. I can change it in this game and make it a toggle-option in my next project, but for whatever reason I kind of like having silence until I change scenes.

- That's a good point and an easy fix to implement, will do.

Broken Quests

Spoiler

Thanks for all these. I would never have caught them all. The actual text does exist for the different scenarios, it just isn't firing for some reason (with one exception, see below). I will fix them, but for now here is the text:

- Phaia end battle texts:

"
-It appears I did fail to write an appropriate end of battle text for the player who kills Phaia and then kills the sow, I will fix this. Anyway, here are all the end-of-battle scenes for Phaia:
____________
Summary = "The piglets lay around their mother, all of them dead.

You're more focused on the horrible stench of it all.
The creatures are absolute filthy, and their living
conditions aren't much better.

You rush upstairs, but unfortunately the old lady has already departed.
Clearly she heard the struggle and understood that she would be your next
target.

With nothing left to do, you continue on the road to Athens.

+1 to Constitution";
______________


Summary = "The old lady and her guests are hardly an obstacle
to a pack of blood-thirsty wolves. When the battle is over, the
entire room is covered in blood.

It doesn't take long to catch the scent of the Krommyonian Sow.
You and your fellow wolves scratch and bite at the entrance to
the root cellar, forcing it open. Immediately the sow bursts
forward and exchanges a knowing glance. It appears that base
animals share a common understanding and allegiance.

*Krommyonian Sow joins the party*";
_____________________

Summary = "You succumb to the strength of the Krommyonian Sow; it is
larger and more aggressive than any pig you have ever encountered.

The old lady does not bother to retrieve your body. Pigs are not fussy
eaters; they devour all evidence of the conflict.";
________________________
Summary = "It turns out that the old lady and her guests were tougher
than you anticipated. After the battle, the guests finish their meal
and leave the lady alone to clean up.

She hacks your body to pieces and throws everything into the root
cellar, where you are devoured by the monstrous sow.
";
"



- Phaia end game texts:

"
Phaia1 = "With the death of Phaia, nobody is left to care for
the savage Krommyon sow. It roams far and wide,
causing untold harm.";

Phaia2 = "With the death of Phaia and the beastly Krommyon sow,
the people of Korinth and the surrounding towns
enjoy a measure of safety. No longer do innocent
townsmen fear being devoured by a giant pig.";

Phaia3 = "Phaia and her enormous beast, the Krommyon sow,
continue to terrorise the area around Korinth.
Parents hide their children inside, fearful that
the giant pig might appear and devour them.";

Phaia4 = "With the death of Phaia, the Krommyonian Sow
has no reason to return to region around Korinth.
The people of the area enjoy temporary relief, but
that ends as the number of monsters rapidly
multiplies.";
"


- Kerkyon end texts:

"
Kerkyon1 = "Eleusis is a much more welcoming town after the death
of Kerkyon. Wrestling is still a popular past-time
for the locals, but there are significantly fewer
fatalities now. ";

Kerkyon2 = "Kerkyon continues to spend his days at the wrestling
field outside Eleusis, challenging anyone who
approaches. Countless travellers and locals are
crushed to death by his vice-like grip.";
"

SOME MORE DESIGN ISSUES

Spoiler

I will go through the dialogue text files and standardise them so they all have numbers. I wrote the bulk of the dialogue in notepad and sometimes I failed to write "1.", "2.", etc at the beginning of the responses. In terms of saving a step, I think that can be done relatively easily (if I'm lucky I only need to go change all the text files), I'll take a look.

Standardising the slides is high on my list, too.

I think the "journey onwards" is there to ensure the player doesn't accidentally leave a town, because it will push the story forward and the player cannot go back.

Prokroustes

Spoiler

Yes, there is a way to kill Prokroustes. If your intelligence or wisdom is at least 3, and you sleep at Prokroustes' inn, you will be more cautious and wind up killing him. See the text dump below.


Here is a text dump from the scene:
"
//START
prokroustesChop = "Prokoustes offers you some simple food. When you are finished with the meal, you follow
the man upstairs. His inn is sparsely furnished and small, but the second floor includes
a guest room for weary travellers like yourself.";

//SUCCESS & LIFE
pC1s = "After leading you to your room, Prokroustes exchanges a few simple pleasantries
and shows himself out. As he walks back down the stairs, you make yourself comfortable and start
thinking about how the people of Athens will receive you.

Before you turn in for the night, though, you jam the door shut. Whether it's a result of
wisdom or intelligence, you recognise the inherent danger in falling asleep in a stranger's home.
Custom requires that travellers be treated well, but bandits only fear the gods at the moment
of their punishment.

After testing the door a couple of times, you hop into bed and call it a night. ";

pc1s1 = "You dream about Troizen, and you dream about the countless miles of road you've trudged
over since leaving your birthplace. You don't have long to appreciate the dream, though.
You are awoken by a sound coming from the door.

Someone is on the other side trying to force his way in. Thankfully, the door is jammed with a
piece of wood that cannot be reached from outside. It's not clear who's on the other side,
but you didn't see anyone else living in the house other than Prokroustes.

Hopping out of bed quietly, you slide over to the door and remove the wooden piece.
You then crouch in position, waiting to catch your opponent unawares. ";

pc1s2 = "Within moments, another attempt is made to open the door. This time, it immediately swings
open, and you see Prokroustes step in. He creeps into the room towards your bed, dragging a large,
long-handled axe behind him.

At first, you're inclined to grab him and interrogate him, but then you see him lift the axe up
above his head as if to strike at the bed. It's unmistakeable: the man is here to kill you.

He never gets the chance to take a swing; you immediately run him through from behind. He gasps in
agony as you twist the blade, and then collapses face down onto the bed. You grab his axe off the
floor and give it a swing for good measure, implanting it right into his back. It severs his spine
and stains the sheets with gore.

It seems you will never be safe until you complete your journey. As the sun rises, you grab your belongings
and hurry down the road to Athens.
";


//FAILURE & DEATH
pC1f = "After leading you to your room, Prokroustes exchanges a few simple pleasantries
and shows himself out. As he walks back down the stairs, you make yourself comfortable and start
thinking about how the people of Athens will receive you.

The bed is a little short for your body, but you let your feet dangle off the edge. Before long,
you are fast asleep, dreaming of tomorrow's journey.";


pC1f1 = "Unfortunately for you, none of those dreams come true.

Exhausted from the long walk from Eleusis, you don't stir when Prokroustes lets himself
into your room. Quietly examining your size in comparison to the bed, he notices that your body
is too long. Upset by this incongruity, he takes the only sensible course of action.

Raising up the axe, he strikes you about half-way down your shins. Your shinbones shatter, and your
feet are separated from the rest of your body. Yet, you're still a little too long for the bed. To
finish the job, he raises up for one more blow, this time to your neck. The blade catches you in the
mouth, shattering your jaw and slicing clean through your neck.

You die before you even know what is happening. Nobody finds your headless and footless corpse.
";





Here is a text dump from the final slides:

"
Prokroustes1 = "Without Prokroustes around to run the inn,
travellers have a little more difficulty finding
a place to rest. On the other hand, they no longer
get murdered by a serial killing bandit. ";

Prokroustes2 = "Prokroustes' inn is able to flourish thanks
to your efforts at removing the nearby bandits.
Yet, it was odd how those bandits claimed to be
searching for dangerous criminals themselves. ";

Prokroustes3 = "Prokroustes continues to maintain his inn on the
outskirts of Athens. Mutilated bodies are regularly
discovered in the area, but so far nobody has been
able to determine who is responsible. ";
"

Anyway, thanks again for the input, making this game has been a huge and ongoing learning experience. I will make the updates in light of what you've said here and will check out your review. Players have been pretty positive about the content, branching plot, and theme, but they have also made it clear that a game is more than just those things alone. Going forward, I'm pretty optimistic about making games in light of my experiences with this one. I think I know where I need to start paying more attention, and the necessity for a broader and more detailed approach to pre-implementation planning.

 

[Nutria]

I played this recently, but I didn't do very well. By the time I got through Epidaurus I could tell I was falling behind the curve. I tried to follow the story as closely as I could (it's been many years so I can't remember too well) but on the road to Athens I couldn't kill any of those assholes. I guess I didn't have my stats built up enough.

I loved the Arcadian guy who worshipped the werewolf Zeus. That really made me feel clever for getting the connection between the region/nation and the gods. Reading all that stuff finally paid off in a game! Also the "do you even lift, bro?" line.

My main suggestion is just, to be blunt, make it easier. This is a niche game, and the niche is not RPG nerds. They've got plenty of RPGs to play. But when it comes to games that put you into the world of Greek myth and legend, you've got no competition, so I'd emphasize that.

I'll write a Steam review and try to shill for this when I get the chance, but the damn plebs I know probably wouldn't appreciate it.

 

[AdolfSatan]

I didn't find the game hard at all, and managed to beat all possible fights of the game. Perhaps you made choices that oriented your character for another playstyle, or simply suck at combat.

Agesilaus I can understand the music not looping (though it being toggable would be nice). The main issue is that since the game lacks any kind of ambient or character (footsteps, sword clashes, etc.) produced noises, the sudden silence becomes all too pronounced, breaking immersion.

My complaint wasn't about the "journey onwards" prompt itself, but the fact that the player can't click any of the options, being forced to either type Y or N on the keyboard. This is inconsistent with the design for the rest of a game mostly played with mouse.

The only way you could colour-fix the slides, is by using one of paintnet's scripting tools to create a macro that first turns the image to greyscale and then applies a hue adjustment to your desired tone. Batch apply, and you're done.

Thanks for the spoiler!

Here, have some signposts:

Spoiler

Had my DAW and mics set-up because I'm already recording some shit, so have some bonus sounds in case you feel inclined to change the menu
http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=198099

 

[JarlFrank]

Combat is super easy if you get the bow dude to tag along and go for maximum KITING tactics

 

[Nutria]

Doesn't he only get to shoot twice?

 

[AdolfSatan]

That's his special attack that shoots several arrows forth, you can use his single-hit attack from a distance with the left click. Combat is rather simplistic, either you're outnumbered and you kite, or you have the upper hand and focus all your attacks on one enemy at a time.