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Theseus: Journey to Athens - C&C RPG made in GMS 2

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
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Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I played this recently, but I didn't do very well. By the time I got through Epidaurus I could tell I was falling behind the curve. I tried to follow the story as closely as I could (it's been many years so I can't remember too well) but on the road to Athens I couldn't kill any of those assholes. I guess I didn't have my stats built up enough.

I loved the Arcadian guy who worshipped the werewolf Zeus. That really made me feel clever for getting the connection between the region/nation and the gods. Reading all that stuff finally paid off in a game! Also the "do you even lift, bro?" line.

My main suggestion is just, to be blunt, make it easier. This is a niche game, and the niche is not RPG nerds. They've got plenty of RPGs to play. But when it comes to games that put you into the world of Greek myth and legend, you've got no competition, so I'd emphasize that.

I'll write a Steam review and try to shill for this when I get the chance, but the damn plebs I know probably wouldn't appreciate it.

Thanks for the input, and a Steam review would be much appreciated. I think the combat is relatively easy once people learn to kite or gather the party members, but I have been thinking about making other parts easier. Such as by going through the game and telling the player why they died. For example, if the player is killed by Prokroustes I could have it drop a hint like "wisdom/intelligence failed (3 or higher necessary)", or just "wisdom/intelligence failed" if that is too much information.

For this game, you're right that its unique strength is the link to the classics. In future titles, though, I do want to greatly strengthen and expand the RPG/gameplay elements. It will help the game appeal to a broader audience, of course, but I think it also makes for a better experience for everyone. Age of Decadence had really great combat, itemisation, and character skills/stats, and it didn't detract from the story at all. Although, to go to your point about difficulty, it does make the game harder if the player needs to be competent at combat to progress, and may cut people off from certain content. Although, I could always implement an easy mode where the characters get god tier combat stats or the enemies are debuffed (I recall in System Shock the enemies could be debuffed to the point of being motionless dummies that died the moment you touched them).

The Arcadian guy was brought into the game so I could make the ruins at Apollo Maleatas seem more ancient and wild. There's barely any primary sources on Apollo Maleatas, although we are lucky because someone discovered an epigram from the Sanctuary of Asklepios which is nice and local. It gives an account of how Zeus gave a woman in marriage to a man named Melos, and then Apollo came by some generations later and had sex with their offspring, resulting in the birth of Asklepios. This is contradicted by the other source I had, Pausanius, so oh well. Either way, even the archaeologists agree that the site of Apollo Maleatas was far older than the Sanctuary of Asklepios and had some sort of bronze age ritual/cult function, so it was a great excuse to introduce Zeus Lykaios and let the player make some outrageous decisions.

Agesilaus I can understand the music not looping (though it being toggable would be nice). The main issue is that since the game lacks any kind of ambient or character (footsteps, sword clashes, etc.) produced noises, the sudden silence becomes all too pronounced, breaking immersion.

My complaint wasn't about the "journey onwards" prompt itself, but the fact that the player can't click any of the options, being forced to either type Y or N on the keyboard. This is inconsistent with the design for the rest of a game mostly played with mouse.

The only way you could colour-fix the slides, is by using one of paintnet's scripting tools to create a macro that first turns the image to greyscale and then applies a hue adjustment to your desired tone. Batch apply, and you're done.

Thanks for the spoiler!

Here, have some signposts:
1zp2w4m.png


Had my DAW and mics set-up because I'm already recording some shit, so have some bonus sounds in case you feel inclined to change the menu
http://www.fast-files.com/getfile.aspx?file=198099

Awesome, thanks for the sign posts! The artist was good enough to produce a very nice signpost asset, too. What I'm thinking is that I'll release a new patch sometime this weekend, and I'll implement your signposts along the road between Epidauros and Athens, and I will use the original artist's signposts throughout all the in-town locations. Along with that update, I can implement a decent number of these improvements, too.

EDIT: Just saw you put up audio files, too, but I was too slow to grab them and they're gone now.



Doesn't he only get to shoot twice?
That's his special attack that shoots several arrows forth, you can use his single-hit attack from a distance with the left click. Combat is rather simplistic, either you're outnumbered and you kite, or you have the upper hand and focus all your attacks on one enemy at a time.

It should be that he shoots arrows as his regular attack, and each battle he can use a special ability twice. It shoots an aimed attack that does extra damage to one target and debuffs them. If you hide from the boars when going hunting with Connidas, you can take his bow for yourself and it grants you a multi-shot ability.

Multi-shot is pretty powerful, but it's better just to take Connidas. As people have pointed out, kiting is generally the way to go, and it helps to collect at least 2 or 3 of the party members.
 
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AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
1,871
This reminded me of two other issues:

Special attack icons have... No icons. Just empty orange squares. Is it supposed to look like that?

And
When Connidas joins you, you get a +1 WIS that doesn't go away even after he leaves if you choose the maritime path.

Oh, I thought you had already let the artist off the contract; feel free to disregard mine then, hers will make a better fit. Saved the sounds in my samples folder, will reupload tomorrow in case they're useful.
EDIT: Here

P.S. : Maleatas branch was one my favourite. Finally a game with a proper chaotic neutral path.
 
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HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
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9,175
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Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
i finally get to play it. it was kinda nice. didn't get the optimal ending, but i got to athens and beat the phallas.

+ amazing work on the greek lore. not greek history buff, but i do read theseus wikipedia page and it's neat the adventure are pretty faithful adaptation of the legend, and the alternative scenario you created for the sake of C&C are pretty cool, while still maintain respect to the source material
+ cool art, portraits, background. it somehow looks much better than queen's wish lmao (i am still upset) . the portraits are simple but they looks like take straight from greek amphora paintings. the "book" part of the story are gorgeous and picked well.
+ pretty simple, but interesting C&C. it's like chibi version of Sorcery!

- i still get the crommyonian sow bad ending even tho i killed the giant bacons.
- music in combat doesn't loop. they just stop when the song is done
- i wish more could be done with the combat, but knowing the scale of the project, it's understandable.

other than that one bug, it was a nice. given proper budget, i think this could be a pretty cool CYOA / RPG hybrid like Sorcery! it's not a big game and honestly alot of things could be better, but again considering the price, scale and expectation, it's really a pretty well done game.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Hey, glad to see the thread back on page 1. I haven't touched this game in a while, to such an extent that I was bad and didn't make the last patch to incorporate the signposts and some other material. I will have to revisit it when the announcement is ready for my next title later this year. Maybe I can release the patch and then make Theseus free to whoever backs the new game or something, assuming I do a kickstarter-style thing.

i finally get to play it. it was kinda nice. didn't get the optimal ending, but i got to athens and beat the phallas.

+ amazing work on the greek lore. not greek history buff, but i do read theseus wikipedia page and it's neat the adventure are pretty faithful adaptation of the legend, and the alternative scenario you created for the sake of C&C are pretty cool, while still maintain respect to the source material
+ cool art, portraits, background. it somehow looks much better than queen's wish lmao (i am still upset) . the portraits are simple but they looks like take straight from greek amphora paintings. the "book" part of the story are gorgeous and picked well.
+ pretty simple, but interesting C&C. it's like chibi version of Sorcery!

- i still get the crommyonian sow bad ending even tho i killed the giant bacons.
- music in combat doesn't loop. they just stop when the song is done
- i wish more could be done with the combat, but knowing the scale of the project, it's understandable.

other than that one bug, it was a nice. given proper budget, i think this could be a pretty cool CYOA / RPG hybrid like Sorcery! it's not a big game and honestly alot of things could be better, but again considering the price, scale and expectation, it's really a pretty well done game.

Thanks! If I had one unbreakable rule in making the game, it was to honour the primary source material. To me, that meant the alternative scenarios had to be rooted in primary source material, the closer the better. I had already read a lot of the source material long before making the game, but now I was re-reading them with a specific intent, and then drawing upon less-popular works and fragments, and also using modern archeological digs and maps. There is such a wealth of material and so many things to explore in classical mythology, let alone classical antiquity in general.

The C&C and classical mythology was definitely my main focus, and I'm glad how well people received that aspect of the game. I cannot deny that the combat is very weak and that I did a very amateur job at implementing the audio. I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but when I made this game I really didn't have an understanding or appreciation for what constitutes a game. I had tunnel vision on a few aspects, to the neglect of the rest of the game-making craft.

On a positive note, I have been looking at a different engine on and off during my spare time. It is in Unity and comes with a much, much better combat system than the one I built in GMS 2. At the same time, I need to design the actual rule system for the stats and calculations. I was also playing with articy: draft, so now I don't need to write the dialogue on the fly directly in the code window or a notepad window.

Re: the crommyonian sow, I thought I had caught that bug, but apparently not. I will have to figure it out; JarlFrank experienced the same bug and I was able to patch it, but I must have missed something.


Seems worth to buy, hope I'm not wrong.
Reminds me of AoD. Just purchased on Steam.

Hope you enjoy it! AoD was a big influence, but the character stats and combat system are far simpler/inferior in my game.
 

AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
1,871
Perhaps text-based combat in the style of NEOScav or A Legionary's Life (which you oughta try) would be more fitting.

You gonna make that Ancient China game? Sing me right away for the ks.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Perhaps text-based combat in the style of NEOScav or A Legionary's Life (which you oughta try) would be more fitting.

You gonna make that Ancient China game? Sing me right away for the ks.

Different combat style in Theseus? Yes, I think you're right, a different combat system like the one in Legionary's Life would have been better. A simpler combat system done well is better than a grid-based system done poorly.

I played a demo of Legionary's Life ages ago, before it was released. I liked the theme and everything, but it felt like a mobile phone game. I found the combat a little tedious after a while, too. I will still get around to buying and playing the full version, though. I played NEOScav ages ago, too, and bought the full version. I think the combat was more interesting in that game, but it has been a long time and I remember it being somewhat unclear and unforgiving.

My next project isn't in China, but I really should do something in that setting. I am only really familiar with pre-Qin Unification history, so it would definitely be in the Spring & Autumn or Warring States period. Although a small-scale mythological game would be fun; maybe one where you play as Shen Nong and go about eating random plants to see what they do. The new game I want to make is set during the Peloponnesian War. It's during a siege, so that way the play area is more restricted and doable, but it still gives plenty of opportunity for combat and intrigue.
 

AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
1,871
Got myself some free time this week and reading greek theatre made me feel like replaying this.

Everything updated yet? Imma be taking screens to deliver a proper codexian review as promised long ago.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
Completely missed this game. I'm always looking for historical rpgs. Wwith some actual historical thought put into it at least on a basic level at least. As you might suspect my list isn't very long...
Bought! (But might take a while till I get to try it)
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Got myself some free time this week and reading greek theatre made me feel like replaying this.

Everything updated yet? Imma be taking screens to deliver a proper codexian review as promised long ago.

Great, let me know what you think. The game is in the same state as it was when HoboForEternity gave the above review on September 30 and my comments on 10/1. I have the same plan as I did in October, which is to release a new patch after making some real progress on my current game project, which I will do before this year is out.

I was also thinking that because of the comments regarding the mediocre combat and character stat development system, I could pull a Spiderweb and just "remaster" the game into the new game engine that I'm using for my second project. Then I could sell it with some sort of deep discount for those who already own it, and could expand it even further than whatever patches I release beforehand. However, I admit that's a remote idea that likely won't bear any fruit for a good year or more, so for now it will remain in the current game engine.

I also got sucked into a separate side-project, producing a text based on a lot of the discussions that have been going on for the last decade over in the "Politics, God, and the Wealth of Nations" subforum. I'm finishing up the latest edition this weekend/week and will then shelve it for a while so that I can focus more on game design. If anyone is interested in that text, the current 3A edition is available (https://antiquitystudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Temple-of-the-Codex-3A.pdf) but there will be another version shortly (and the last version for a while, except for some updates to include artwork and maybe some short bits). 3A was a work in progress that was only released to show the changes made since version 2 and be shared with some people I was discussing it with on other sites.

Obviously what I would really love to do is quit my job and spend my time working constantly on these projects, but that is not realistic for now.

Goddamn, only 2 revios?

I'll need to find some time to play this.

As an Antiquity lifetime fan, I find this game very promising. Why only 2 reviews? Probably I'll write one.

It has received more reviews in this thread and elsewhere, but none of them made it to the Steam store. Every review is much appreciated!

If anyone wants to try-before-you-buy, the demo is available over at itch: https://antiquity-games.itch.io/theseus-journey-to-athens

I tried putting the demo up on Steam but their system is a massive pain in the arse. The demo ends when you leave Troezen.
 
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Binky

Cipher
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
453
People have trouble staying dead in this game.
Kill Boutes in Troezen? He's alive in Epidaukos and can join your merry gang.
Kill Ardalos & the Craaab People? He stays playing his aulos on the beach. Slides also mention he's alive.
Bring Mortmal to be sacrificed? Slides mention he still runs his inn/bakery (not even death will prevent him from making pastries)
Kill Kerkyon? Still alive in the slides.
Kill Prokroustes? Still alive in the slides.
Kill the Bacon Gang? Still alive in the slides.

Is there any place to use the silver nugget? Couldn't bribe the guard with it.
Where can you raise intelligence? Only managed to get it to one when i sacrificed to Poseidon.
Walking speed is too slow for my taste.

All in all, had fun. Best run ended with 4 str, 2 dex, 4 con, 1 int, 2 wis, 3 cha. Managed to kill every bandit 'cept Prokroustes.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It has received more reviews in this thread and elsewhere, but none of them made it to the Steam store. Every review is much appreciated!

Ok fuck you I reviewed it

:bravo:

People have trouble staying dead in this game.
Kill Boutes in Troezen? He's alive in Epidaukos and can join your merry gang.
Kill Ardalos & the Craaab People? He stays playing his aulos on the beach. Slides also mention he's alive.
Bring Mortmal to be sacrificed? Slides mention he still runs his inn/bakery (not even death will prevent him from making pastries)
Kill Kerkyon? Still alive in the slides.
Kill Prokroustes? Still alive in the slides.
Kill the Bacon Gang? Still alive in the slides.

Is there any place to use the silver nugget? Couldn't bribe the guard with it.
Where can you raise intelligence? Only managed to get it to one when i sacrificed to Poseidon.
Walking speed is too slow for my taste.

All in all, had fun. Best run ended with 4 str, 2 dex, 4 con, 1 int, 2 wis, 3 cha. Managed to kill every bandit 'cept Prokroustes.

Glad you liked it, but those bugs are very concerning. I am confused how so many slides failed to load properly and how so many characters continued to remain alive; I thought the issues were almost entirely resolved by previous patches. I want to point the finger at the save file you are using, or perhaps it is an old version or something went wrong with the patching, but I need to try to reproduce the problem first. I would definitely put another patch out ASAP if other users are suffering the same severe issues or if I can reproduce them myself.

I'm at work now, but when I get home I'll try to figure out what the silver nugget does. There's definitely a few points where you can buff intelligence, but again I'd have to check the code because it's been so long. I will also check the stats needed for Prokroustes. Your character is too stupid and foolish to defeat him, but if you have high int and wis then it won't be you who gets chopped to bits.
 

Binky

Cipher
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
453
Bought the game during the weekend, so it's the most recent version. It's strange; if you kill Kerkyon during wrestling, he's alive in the slides. But if you kill him in combat, he remains dead as the dodo.

I'm also very happy to report it's possible to neutralize every bandit during the course of a single run. Did it just now with an ending 3 str, 1 dex, 4 con, 1 int, 3 wis, 1 cha.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Bought the game during the weekend, so it's the most recent version. It's strange; if you kill Kerkyon during wrestling, he's alive in the slides. But if you kill him in combat, he remains dead as the dodo.

I'm also very happy to report it's possible to neutralize every bandit during the course of a single run. Did it just now with an ending 3 str, 1 dex, 4 con, 1 int, 3 wis, 1 cha.

All right, I'll test it more and plan to release a patch as soon as I can (work is pretty ridiculous right now, but I will aim for end of month at latest). Fixing the slides isn't particularly difficult, it just requires me to go double-check all the locations where the variables are checked/changed. The content is definitely there, it's just that some of the events/slides aren't firing properly (to a much greater extent than I was aware, apparently).
 
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Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Confirming the above mentioned bugs and patching them will be done on the weekend. I put aside a full day to do it, so if I don't then everyone can click that little angry rage face reaction. I'll have to remind myself how to use the steam uploader, too.

:greatjob:
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Okay, I did it, the patch is done. Opening up GMS2 and reading my code was a nice little walk down memory lane. I kind of want to make something else in GMS2, but I've already committed to Unity for the time being. Anyway, the patch will be up later tonight when I re-learn the steam gui thing and upload the new build, then play around with the site to make it live or whatever.

First, however, I'm going to go play another round of Battletech 3025 Commander Edition, which was just updated to version 1.8 in light of the Heavy Metal expansion. Now you can pick different start dates with new tech and politics and a larger map and it's amazing. I chose 3049 and apparently the Clans are showing up north. I play as Liao, though, so I'm down south. Tonnes of new content and mechanics. I was playing earlier today, glad I cleared my schedule for patching.

Patch update
Huge thank you to the brave men and women of RPG codex who made this possible by telling me about the bugs.

- New sign post graphics.
- Kerkyon now stays dead if you defeat him in wrestling. I failed to change the relevant variable in the old version.
- Boutes will not appear in Epidauros if you kill him in Troezen. The game was previously only checking one of the two relevant variables.
- Ardalos now stays dead. The game was not updating the variable post-combat.
- Mortmal is now dead in the slides if you kidnap him. Guess what was wrong with the old version? The variable wasn't being changed.
- Prokroustes is listed as dead in the slides if you kill him. Variable change missing.
- Bacon gang stays dead.

I am now immune to rage-fist responses; mods please disable them on my posts. Please also ignore the fact that I said this patch should be done before the end of November.

I do plan to release a future content patch, but my current project is to announce my next title before the year is over (it's still December, I have plenty of time).


UPDATE: It's live on Steam and Itch

:fuuyeah:

I have work tomorrow (or later today I guess) so goodnight/morning. If the patch breaks everything then I disavow it
 
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