Theseus: Journey to Athens - C&C RPG made in GMS 2

[JarlFrank]

Agesilaus two more feature requests:

When you know a combat is already lost there's no other choice than to fight it out to the end. It would be nice to have an ESC menu where you could restart the fight or admit defeat, rathing than having to wait until you're killed.

In dialogues, you can either press space or click the "press space" text to continue. When changing maps, you have to press Y or N on the keyboard as far as I can see, no way to do it with the mouse. Enable the player to just click on the Y or N with the mouse, rather than requiring a keyboard press.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Agesilaus if this project generates more than some beer money, would you consider making more games like this?

I, for one, would D1P a full-blown game like this based on Iliad & Odyssey.

 

[Agesilaus]

In light of JarlFrank 's suggestion, I have launched a new patch on Steam. You can now press "esc" in combat to bring up an options menu.

Agesilaus two more feature requests:

When you know a combat is already lost there's no other choice than to fight it out to the end. It would be nice to have an ESC menu where you could restart the fight or admit defeat, rathing than having to wait until you're killed.

In dialogues, you can either press space or click the "press space" text to continue. When changing maps, you have to press Y or N on the keyboard as far as I can see, no way to do it with the mouse. Enable the player to just click on the Y or N with the mouse, rather than requiring a keyboard press.

The combat one is a huge deal actually, because it has been slowing down my debugging and general play-testing. So, thanks for the suggestion, and it is now implemented. A new update is live on Steam and Itch.

- Players can now press escape during combat to bring up an options menu. From the menu, players can restart the battle or surrender.

As for the transitions, I agree it can be annoying to press y/n rather than click on a button. I got used to it because I usually play with one hand on the keyboard and one on the mouse, because I started using the numbers and space for the dialogue (the shortcut keys being a suggestion someone made during the development cycle). I will be changing the way the game transitions scenes, but it may be simply to have an option to have immediate transitions without any input once a player touches the signs.

Agesilaus if this project generates more than some beer money, would you consider making more games like this?

I, for one, would D1P a full-blown game like this based on Iliad & Odyssey.

This project will hopefully break even over the course of the next couple of months, but nothing is certain. I doubt it will make any sort of profit beyond beer money, but hope springs eternal. It has definitely been a very positive and productive experience, and I absolutely will begin another project after a content patch or two. At some point I would like to quit my day job and make games professionally, but this title is more valuable for the experience than the profit (assuming there is any profit, rather than a minor financial loss). Ultimately I will be leaving my current job within the year because I'm in the process of moving to another city, the question is whether I will resume full time work in that new location or try to transition into game development full time.

In terms of the Iliad & Odyssey... I would like to make a shorter/tighter game about the Homeric heroes, but for a longer title I would probably aim for some period within the 5th to 4th century. I would like to do something in Spring & Autumn/Warring States China, too. Likely what will happen is that I'll tidy up this current title and add some more content to flesh out a few plotlines, then I will make one or two shorter games in the style of Immortal Defense or Gunpoint (tight, simple gameplay mechanics, separated into levels split by dialogue scenes). For the next full lengthy RPG, I want to plan it better and have more complex mechanics, so I need more free time and experience.

 

[Ninjerk]

If you do Diomedes, you have to do it right.

 

[Tigranes]

I'd personally love to see something that slices across a well known event from the outside; e.g. playing a bit-part orator in 4th century Athens, cavorting with Demosthenes and getting caught up in Athens' rebellion, gazing at Alexander's rise from an entirely different perspective; or Athens in Pericles' final year, the war itself a distant background to the rapid ups and downs in Pericles' career and the plague striking the city, one of those moments when a premodern city is cut down exactly at its greatest moment due to its sheer size and intensity. Or even something like 5th/4th century Syracuse with the whole colonial aspect.

The good news is that the era is full of moments that you can pick out at your leisure to create a relatively bounded game, without having to cover a big epic thing like Alexander's campaigns, especially if we're talking small-time operations that are targeted at history nerds.

 

[Agesilaus]

Just noticed that on Steam/Itch there are 0 reviews or ratings; if you're enjoying the game, I would greatly appreciate giving it the thumbs up or a short comment on Steam. I'm not sure how the algorithms work, but it is getting a lot of page views so perhaps a positive word will give people confidence to try it out.

I'd personally love to see something that slices across a well known event from the outside; e.g. playing a bit-part orator in 4th century Athens, cavorting with Demosthenes and getting caught up in Athens' rebellion, gazing at Alexander's rise from an entirely different perspective; or Athens in Pericles' final year, the war itself a distant background to the rapid ups and downs in Pericles' career and the plague striking the city, one of those moments when a premodern city is cut down exactly at its greatest moment due to its sheer size and intensity. Or even something like 5th/4th century Syracuse with the whole colonial aspect.

The good news is that the era is full of moments that you can pick out at your leisure to create a relatively bounded game, without having to cover a big epic thing like Alexander's campaigns, especially if we're talking small-time operations that are targeted at history nerds.

Agreed, the era is a goldmine in terms of a setting and possible stories. A few years ago I read all the extant works by the Athenian Orators, and then I tried to make my first real game. I had a lot of trouble with the compiler and it has some bugs/crashes, but I uploaded it for posterity sake on itch for free:

https://antiquity-games.itch.io/aeschines-glimpse-of-adulthood

You basically play as a young Aeschines, and Demosthenes also shows up. I wouldn't say it's a good game so much as it is a very simple attempt at making a visual novel with some branching paths, factions, and some items.

I would like to actually go back to those law speeches, there are a tonne of good stories contained in them. Lysias gives a first hand account of escaping death at the hands of the Thirty Tyrants, there's Demosthenes and others discussing the diplomatic intrigue between Athens and the Kingdom of Macedon, and then there's otherwise unknown stories like when people try to commit insurance fraud by purposely scuttling a trading ship (resulting in the death of unsuspecting passengers, sadly).

 

[Tigranes]

There's just so much potential for doing something interesting with RPG dialogue without having to rely on some gimmicky "look dialogues are gameplay" feature, and just focusing on what kind of dialogue situations work really well for RPG dialogues - we get a hint of this in the Lorenza [sic] conversation in AOD, or the oratory speech sidequest in Arcanum. Because the speech in these situations are more performative and designed to 'win over' crowds in real life, it can potentially provide great RPG moments where you can bring your character skills, player understanding of the different NPCs & lore, and prior investigation to bear.

Anyway, still haven't even fired up this game, just no time! Will certainly leave a Steam review once I play it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I think you should increase the price to 15€ before discount, people take a game more seriously if the price tag is above 10€.

Didn't realize the game was out and not in early access, congratulations.

Any plan to release it on GoG ?

 

[J_C]

Game's great. Try the demo.

Well, as promised, you've earned my 7 bucks! Won't get to play this until April...

But at least all micro-issues will have been ironed out by then.

EDIT: Dunno if you deliberately enabled it, or it's an automatic feature in Steam, but it's showing with regional pricing at 2.44usd here. Might want to check that out unless you wanna be selling it at a third of its price to the Third World.

Wait what, 2.44? no idea how that happened, I will check it out tonight when I upload the patch for the two bugs pointed out to me today.

Have you managed to figure out the pricing? The way I see it, Steam automatically applies the regional prices, and if you don't want to have that, you manually have to edit all the currencies, which is a pain in the ass.

 

[Tavernking]

Good rule of thumb is $1 per hour of entertainment.

 

[Ovplain]

Saw this the other day, looks interesting, was still gonna wait 'til this was like a buck or something. Changed my mind, just bought it, whatever, why not. Good luck, yo!

 

[Agesilaus]

Long day at work today, didn't have much time to work on the game but I did squish a bug noticed by someone on the Steam discussion forum.

My current goal is to get a significant update out the door by Sunday evening at latest. People seem to enjoy the game, but they have issues with the interface and certain design decisions (like only one save slot, and no autosave prior to scenes where you can die, especially given that you can't save in a scene).

I think you should increase the price to 15€ before discount, people take a game more seriously if the price tag is above 10€.

Didn't realize the game was out and not in early access, congratulations.

Any plan to release it on GoG ?

Thanks! I would love to release it on GoG, but I don't know how to get a game on GoG. It seems like a very opaque process.

As for the price, it's something for me to think about for future projects. I wouldn't want to increase the price on a project that I've already released, though.

Game's great. Try the demo.

Well, as promised, you've earned my 7 bucks! Won't get to play this until April...

But at least all micro-issues will have been ironed out by then.

EDIT: Dunno if you deliberately enabled it, or it's an automatic feature in Steam, but it's showing with regional pricing at 2.44usd here. Might want to check that out unless you wanna be selling it at a third of its price to the Third World.

Wait what, 2.44? no idea how that happened, I will check it out tonight when I upload the patch for the two bugs pointed out to me today.

Have you managed to figure out the pricing? The way I see it, Steam automatically applies the regional prices, and if you don't want to have that, you manually have to edit all the currencies, which is a pain in the ass.

I did take a look, but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Steam does have two regions that get some sort of automatic discount - CIS and some conglomeration of South Asian countries. However, even in those regions Steam is reporting the game at around $5. So, I'm not sure what to say - would you be able to private message me your specific region? Steam displays a long list of country prices, all with their local currencies, so perhaps I'm just missing it.

Saw this the other day, looks interesting, was still gonna wait 'til this was like a buck or something. Changed my mind, just bought it, whatever, why not. Good luck, yo!

Thanks, hope you enjoy it!

 

[YanBG]

Wait, so how many people bought it? There are no reviews on Steam.

 

[JarlFrank]

Thanks! I would love to release it on GoG, but I don't know how to get a game on GoG. It seems like a very opaque process.

For GoG your game would be of too low production quality to be accepted.

zwanzig_zwoelf submitted Das Geisterschiff to them and they rejected it. Cleveland Mark Blakemore submitted Grimoire to them and they rejected it. I think even Timeslip submitted Vigilantes to them and they rejected it for whatever reason.

They're somehow quite selective in what they take and what they don't. The tagged people can tell you more about the process, but it's pretty guaranteed GoG would reject your game.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The tagged people can tell you more about the process

Everything one needs to know is located right here.

 

[HoboForEternity]

in the end jeff vogel and vince is right. steam opened the floodgate, but when in most cases that makes your competitions are mostly trash, but at least your game got published.

 

[Agesilaus]

Wait, so how many people bought it? There are no reviews on Steam.

I will give detailed sales numbers at some point; it has been selling some copies every day, which is why I am cautiously optimistic that I will recoup the money I spent and walk away with a lot of helpful lessons and experience for the next project. Also, the prestigious developer badge (you need to claim yours, I think).

I'm not sure why there are no reviews, but no reviews is better than a slew of bad reviews I suppose. The Steam discussion forum is somewhat active, and there are some other places it's discussed.

in the end jeff vogel and vince is right. steam opened the floodgate, but when in most cases that makes your competitions are mostly trash, but at least your game got published.

Steam has a two tier system, though. They always split their market into "popular" and "all". Games from an established company, or games that appear to be big hits regardless, get placed in the first category. The remainder float around in the massive flood of releases, and users must click "show all new releases" if they want to view them. Not that I think that's a bad system, I just mean that the flood is separated from the regular market. Various indie developers on twitter and elsewhere talk about algorithms and wishlists and things, but I don't have any independent understanding of that stuff.

 

[AdolfSatan]

Wait what, 2.44? no idea how that happened, I will check it out tonight when I upload the patch for the two bugs pointed out to me today.

Thanks for the support and the good advice offered while this game was in development. By the time April rolls around it should have a bit more content, too. I'm thinking that perhaps I should have a peaceful ways to end the final scene; right now, no matter who you side with, you wind up in combat.

My pleasure! Hope my nitpicking wasn't too much of a nuisance, but I couldn't help myself. I admire your dedication towards bringing such amazing settings into vidya, and can only hope you'll make the best out of them.

Still showing with regional pricing in Argentina:

 

[Agesilaus]

NEW PATCH
- I fixed the interface so that the player no longer needs to be impossibly close to certain characters to initiate dialogue. Now you can easily speak to everyone!
- I fixed a loophole whereby if players were given the quest to retrieve the necklace, but then went and spent the gold somewhere else, they could still get the necklace without violence.

NEW DEMO
- This new demo incorporates all the changes in the full version and is up to date with the latest patch.



I was also contacted by @indiegamepicks who requested a full copy so he could write a review. That review is now up on his Steam Curator Page and on his blog: https://indiegamepicks.wordpress.com/2019/03/05/theseus-journey-to-athens/

...All in all, this is an interesting title, complemented with good writing, beautiful artwork and cool music, along with a really low price (less than 10 EUR). Fans of choose-your-own-adventures and ancient Greek mythology should definitely check it out.

It sounds like he enjoyed it! I hope he tries it again in light of the interface improvements, now that players can access options mid-combat and the frustrating movement/dialogue issue is a thing of the past.

Wait what, 2.44? no idea how that happened, I will check it out tonight when I upload the patch for the two bugs pointed out to me today.

Thanks for the support and the good advice offered while this game was in development. By the time April rolls around it should have a bit more content, too. I'm thinking that perhaps I should have a peaceful ways to end the final scene; right now, no matter who you side with, you wind up in combat.

My pleasure! Hope my nitpicking wasn't too much of a nuisance, but I couldn't help myself. I admire your dedication towards bringing such amazing settings into vidya, and can only hope you'll make the best out of them.

Still showing with regional pricing in Argentina:

Thanks for letting me know about this. I went to the Steam billing section and read some of the documentation, and effectively I feel a little stuck. Steam takes the USD price and then generates "appropriate" prices across all the different regions. It isn't a strict currency conversion, though - Steam apparently estimates what price might work best in a region, in light of what is being charged in the US. Steam allows me to manually change the price in each region, but they warn me that if I do it then I can't be part of any sales or bundles for 30 days. They also warn me that they don't recommend tampering with the price during the first couple of weeks post-release.

I don't think anyone is abusing this by pretending to be from Argentina, and I guess if this is truly the fair price in Argentina then so be it, but it does kind of suck that Steam won't allow me to at least try changing the price without being told I can't be part of any sales or any other special things for 30 days. My sales data is not showing any mass-purchases from Argentina, so I guess it isn't a big deal. Definitely something for me to be aware of for my next projects, though, thanks!

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Bought the game and will play it in 4 days long weekend starting tonight.

I D1P (well more like day 2) simply for the setting and to support these games with different focus compared to AAA gaming. And it would seems that codex impression is positive so looking forward to play it.

Is there an estimate on how long the average playthrough?

 

[J_C]

I'm not sure why there are no reviews, but no reviews is better than a slew of bad reviews I suppose.

Don't really bother yourself with this. I think many others can confirm it that only a very very small percentage of players write reviews on Steam, somewhere around 1% and 2%. If you wait, I'm sure some reviews will drop in, but unless your game sells like gangbusters, don't expect a flood of reviews.

Although at least the Codexian brothers who bought the game should really drop a review.

 

[YanBG]

Also, the prestigious developer badge (you need to claim yours, I think).

How to do that?

Btw i checked the review on Indie Game Picks and although you added a lot of great looking graphics in the main part of the game, the battle map needs some work. Look into UI too, i'm sure you can think of something. The black rectangles behind stats text are too basic.

The reviews and evertything is like a domino, the more you get will give you even more :D

Wonder if Yoyo Games, will add it to their news too. Maybe even their showcase reel for 2019, who knows.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I was also contacted by @indiegamepicks who requested a full copy so he could write a review. That review is now up on his Steam Curator Page and on his blog: https://indiegamepicks.wordpress.com/2019/03/05/theseus-journey-to-athens/

Is it me or that's a lazy review coming from someone whom requested a free copy ?

 

[Timeslip]

Thanks! I would love to release it on GoG, but I don't know how to get a game on GoG. It seems like a very opaque process.

For GoG your game would be of too low production quality to be accepted.

zwanzig_zwoelf submitted Das Geisterschiff to them and they rejected it. Cleveland Mark Blakemore submitted Grimoire to them and they rejected it. I think even Timeslip submitted Vigilantes to them and they rejected it for whatever reason.

They're somehow quite selective in what they take and what they don't. The tagged people can tell you more about the process, but it's pretty guaranteed GoG would reject your game.

They suggested production value and too niche for Vigilantes. Looks like they just didn't think it would sell enough to be worth their while. Didn't have a lot of reviews on Steam (around 35 at the time) and the game didn't really take off until full release.

 

[JarlFrank]

Guess that explains why they didn't make any profit last year