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Thief 2 fan missions and campaigns

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
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23,993
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
A new T2 FM is out, "Katharsis". Garrett is sent to a castle/estate to steal a Precursor Mask for some nobleman and to be able to pay the rent. Except there's a bit more to this one, I feels.

After ten minutes I can say this: Don't pick "Challenge" difficulty unless you're tired of your life; it binds you to a single HP. No more, no less. Oh, and not blackjacking anyone is an (optional) objective as well.

"Expert" has a lower loot requirement, but seems to dodge the tryhard challenges.

Architecture is interesting, and a slight fog is actually used to good effect here.
 

Phil_Solid

Novice
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
6
I tried to tell him not to do that 1 hp shit but...ayyy Tone, whaddaya gonna do? Anyway, the mission is pretty good. Just needs a decent comp to run it smoothly.
 

Curratum

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
3,828
I will never understand why people on TTLG post FMs without screenshots.

I don't know who you are, I don't know if your Thief missions aren't the equivalent of a 1995 custom Doom level and I have no desire to download your stuff without screenshots. :(
 

Riskbreaker

Guest
Screenshots from this particular mission are already available on DarkFate. Like, they're on top of their news feed right now.
And it does look appealing, somewhat redolent of Sturmdrang Peak.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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I tried to tell him not to do that 1 hp shit but...ayyy Tone, whaddaya gonna do? Anyway, the mission is pretty good. Just needs a decent comp to run it smoothly.

I'm not done with it yet, but looking back I can say that it's nice to have that 'Challenge'-difficulty there, because this thing becomes a freeform-travel extravaganza once you're past the main gates. Getting around the place without losing a single pip of health would be an... interesting nut to crack.

It's surprisingly low on readables, but it goes for a more "show, don't tell"-approach. Mostly, dead bodies telling plenty of tales.

It's also low on critters. So far it's been 95% guards and 5% servants and such, though a rat did squeak loudly in a tunnel somewhere.
 

toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
441
So there aren't even any potions or food to find, to restore your health with? You are stuck like that for the whole mission? It's would certainly be an interesting touch I guess, more for limiting your movement than for making combat impossible.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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23,993
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
So there aren't even any potions or food to find, to restore your health with? You are stuck like that for the whole mission? It's would certainly be an interesting touch I guess, more for limiting your movement than for making combat impossible.

On the highest difficulty level (Challenge) you only have 1 HP. I found tons of food, plenty of fruits (which heal at least 3 HP now) and lots of healing potions (which only heal 2 HP now) but nothing I did raised it above that. The medium difficulty level (Expert) has normal health and health-restoring properties.

Speaking of which, I've finished "Katharsis"... or at least I completed all the objectives. Imagine my shock when I discovered that I had yet to find over 2500 in loot, and only found half the secrets! (I also bagged 38/41 pockets, which I'm quite impressed with.)

This one is amazingly good. The mood and atmosphere are the highlights here, though the architecture deserves special praise. There's at least one place where I'm wondering how I can get into, though I suspect there are others. Easily a 9/10, and a welcome addition to the 2021-lineup.
 
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Arrowgrab

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
562
Just finished Katharsis (will need to revisit it to find the last three secrets), and it's a damn impressive first FM from the author.

Also, a little voice in my head is now telling me to fuck work, wrap myself in a blanket, and spend the rest of the month playing winter-themed FMs.
 

octavius

Arcane
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
16,979
Location
Bjørgvin
If you play ghosting (or Lythia style as I think it was originally called, named after a TTLG legend (?)), it doesn't matter much if you are stuck with 1 or 20 HP.
Not that I'm autist masochist enough to ghost all missions myself, though.
 

Curratum

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
3,828
What was the absolute autism called? I forgot the word combo...

Googled it, it's Supreme Ghost :D

1. Highest difficulty level available and playable, usually Expert, although it might be renamed by author.

2. Complete the mission without leaving any incomplete (unchecked) objectives, including optional objectives. Objectives declared irrelevant (a red circle) do not matter. Also, it is acceptable to bypass objectives by not triggering them as long as the mission completes.

3. No Damage given or taken: No falls or incidental damage from lava, loss of health from being underwater too long, etc.

4. No Alerts of any kind from any AI or Device: No first alerts, no comments at all from AI. A single chirp from a Watcher, “Musta Been Rats…”, zombies groaning, etc are a bust. All AI and devices must remain in their normal state and not react to anything you do or initiate in the game. AI walking around and muttering to themselves or having a conversation with another AI are fine.

5. Inventory and Weapons: You can not purchase weapons and inventory items from the store at loadout. Free items at loadout are allowed to be taken. Stores other than at loadout, such as in-game shops, are ok to use as long as you are not spotted and do not break any other rules. Use nothing that would leave a trace or remnant of evidence. No Potions can be used at all. Rope Arrows and Scouting Orbs can be used but they must be retrieved. Holy water vials are not considered potions and are allowed.

6a. No dousing of torches. Turning off electric lights, snuffing candles, or removing any light source including Mushrooms is also Not Allowed. Removing light sources directly created by the player, for example in order to complete a puzzle, is allowed.

6b. No use of moss arrows to deaden noise.

6c. The use of moss, water, and other arrows is allowed for other purposes, such as to hit a switch or to complete a puzzle element.

7. Put Everything back that can be put back: doors closed and re-locked if they are re-lockable, chests and gates closed if closable; keys returned, books/scrolls/letters returned to their original place. If items are picked off a patrolling AI, drop them back on the original patrol route or at their feet if they are a stationary AI. If the item was acquired from a niche or other similar place you can’t get it back into, drop the item on the floor below it or the nearest logical place. You cannot stack boxes to gain access to an area when your stack is on the patrol path of an AI. If it can be done in a shadowed area off a patrol path or even in direct light where no one is patrolling, that is fine. But all boxes used must be put back in their original location.

8. No turning off of watchers, or other security systems.

9. No triggering of traps is allowed if the trigger is caused directly by Garrett, such as stepping on a pressure plate or crossing an invisible trip wire. If a trap is already running when Garrett arrives (e.g., the fireballs in Bonehoard), it is not a bust.

10. No property damage of any kind: No door bashing, banner slashing, crate/barrel breaking, blowing up mechs or watchers. Lock picking that creates infinitesimal degradation of the lock mechanism is OK.

11. No exploitation of the Dark engine: No nudging, banner transmigration, hooking of AI with boxes, barrel polka dancing or anything that takes advantage of quirks in the Dark engine for game play advantage.

12. No knockouts or killings of any kind allowed: whether by blackjack, gas arrows, hammers, maces, or any weapons or items at all, whether they show up in the stats or not. No induced melees.

13. Keep a clean inventory: don’t pick up what you don’t need and return what is not usable.

Someone please flag this with autism, as I don't have the reaction button...
 

SharkClub

Cipher
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
801
Strap Yourselves In
Supreme ghost autism is something to admire when it's in full effect. I've watched some of Klatremus' videos and they're interesting if nothing else. I prefer to play a more run and gun lean-forward-blackjack-in-shadows-running-circles-around-guards kind of playstyle when I play myself but to each their own, I only really savescum when I'm doing platforming/mantling/climbing ladders.

Played two FMs today, both from the 20th Anniversary contest submissions. Madness of Wolfgang Handspiegel by mtk and Rose Garden by Melan.

Madness of Wolfgang Handspiegel was a very tiny map but also very confusing. I absolutely hate autistic pixel hunting in Thief FMs and there was a bit of it here even though the map itself was tiny.

Rose Garden was better but it felt like it dragged on way too long. To me I think this is one of Melan's weakest fan missions by far, which is a little sad because I absolutely loved the one he did for the contest prior to that one IIRC, but it's also still decent because the quality of Melan's fan missions is relatively quite high compared to most. It had some neat ideas that aren't done too often (escort mission? lol) but it was one of the worst maps to get lost in that he's made imho. Parts of it felt linear in a way (getting from a theoretical point A to point B felt like there was only one viable route sometimes) and then other parts of it felt like I was doing something I wasn't meant to to get to certain places, I completed all of the objectives and beat the mission but I'm pretty sure I did shit totally wrong, which I guess is the beauty of the immersive sim. Still, I've played much, much worse as far as Thief fan missions go in general so understand that it's still better than most.
 
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toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
441
Funny thing... Now people can and will try to push games to their limits but the thing here is that this doesn't make as much sense as the author of that thing seems to think it does. It's like that Thief 2 mission where you have to case a mansion that you get to rob proper in the next mission. You cannot blackjack anyone, cannot be seen, cannot activate any alarms bc then the owner would get frightened and you wouldn't have the chance to steal that relic or whatever it was you had to steal. BUT at the same time you are free to regularly steal every valuable like you would in any other mission. So it's somehow too much for a random guard or servant to get alerted but when it comes to everything that wasn't glued down going missing, who cares, ain't nobody giving a shit about that!
Same here, you are still going to steal shiny shit and afterwards it will be obvious that a bunch of shiny shit was indeed stolen, it hasn't grown legs and walked away.
 

SharkClub

Cipher
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
801
Strap Yourselves In
Played another two today from the 20th Anniversary Contest.

Downtowne Funk by Yandros. Pretty good classic style mission, has some comedic stuff in it too. Has an intro cutscene and a voice actor trying his hardest to sound like Garrett. Not overly complex, not a pixel hunt, just some classic high quality Thief.

Ultimate Burglary by Terra. A mishmash of themes and major loot items (likely on purpose to celebrate Thief's 20th anniversary), includes an Undercover-like switch puzzle. Unfortunately a lot of the map comes off looking and feeling very samey, the Bafford section is overly large with tons of boxy rooms, the Ramirez section is just a smaller version of the Bafford section, the Hammer section is where you spend the most time thanks to the switch puzzle and it's ok, the undead section is also just ok. The whole map is just ok with some pretty crude architecture. Nothing really stood out to me as impressive or fresh but once again, I've played much worse.

If anyone cares I've been streaming me playing Thief FMs on twitch to what I can only assume to be 0 viewers and a few chat bots unable to send messages due to chat restrictions: https://www.twitch.tv/renosharkclub
 

SharkClub

Cipher
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
801
Strap Yourselves In
Played three short ones today, all three of them took me around 15-20 minutes each.

Recipe for Turmoil by Psych0sis for the One Million Units contest. Decent little map, I liked the complexity of the architecture and the little bit of verticality it offered for such a small space.
Dewinder Manor by Psych0sis for the 20th Anniversary contest. Another decent map, nothing too remarkable but not bad either.
Order of the Dew by Jayrude for the 20th Anniversary contest. Again, another decent little map which isn't blowing anyone's socks off with any surprises.

All three were fine, and short, so I can't really complain.
 
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Riskbreaker

Guest
Katharsis has been damn enjoyable so far, proper bit of exploration porn/atmosphere porn. Quite a bit bigger than I expected it to be too. I don't mind how sparse the readables have been so far, it kinda enhances the off-kilter feel of the whole thing.
Speaking of readables, a peek into Benny's private life:
y2bKbgm.jpg
 
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Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Joined
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Messages
23,993
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Katharsis has been updated to 1.1. I was still taffing about in 1.0, but had only managed to bump my loot count up to ~6200, with loads more to go.

Normally I don't abandon gameplay in an FM to play an updated release, but in this case I'll make an exception.
 

Riskbreaker

Guest
I would've considered restarting if not for its size, I'd wager that some campaigns took me less time to complete than this thing did.

'Twas fantastic tho. It manages to be something like Thief 2's very own The Sword in how it goes from just slightly off-kilter beginning to ever more surreal and unexpected shit but in a way that fits Thief 2's specific theme and aesthetics.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
23,993
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
I think I'm gonna call it with Katharsis. I have 7100 loot and found all the secrets.

Meanwhile, an interesting "new" FM dropped in - "Off to Milhorn Manor" which was released ages ago has just received a 2021-update, which addresses many bugs, quirks and bad game design decisions. I'll be giving that one a go.
 

octavius

Arcane
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
16,979
Location
Bjørgvin
Played some of Dyers' Eve, and old T2 FM which was the sequel to Bloodsport.

H91DMQ6.png


Started on highest difficulty, which is "Nucking futs", and the place was absolutely crawling with Zombies and Hauntoids. Haunts are usually not too scary if you can lure them away one by one, but these ones when killed turned into some elemental like being that cast spells.
So I restarted on the middle difficulty, but the only difference seems to be lower loot count.

This mission is dripping with atmosphere, but you are virtually forced to ghost it. But the sheer abundance of enemies, coupled with bullshit like unkillable haunts and undousable torches, made me eventually rage quite. "Im to old for this crap".

Wdr1cXq.png
 

Jack Of Owls

Prophet
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
3,323
Location
Massachusettes
Katharsis has been damn enjoyable so far, proper bit of exploration porn/atmosphere porn. Quite a bit bigger than I expected it to be too. I don't mind how sparse the readables have been so far, it kinda enhances the off-kilter feel of the whole thing.
Speaking of readables, a peek into Benny's private life:
y2bKbgm.jpg

Looks like Benny has a little bit of a Napoleon & Josephine kink going on, liking his women to be unusually very naturally aromatic. :lol:
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
23,993
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Played some of Dyers' Eve, and old T2 FM which was the sequel to Bloodsport.

Started on highest difficulty, which is "Nucking futs", and the place was absolutely crawling with Zombies and Hauntoids. Haunts are usually not too scary if you can lure them away one by one, but these ones when killed turned into some elemental like being that cast spells.
So I restarted on the middle difficulty, but the only difference seems to be lower loot count.

This mission is dripping with atmosphere, but you are virtually forced to ghost it. But the sheer abundance of enemies, coupled with bullshit like unkillable haunts and undousable torches, made me eventually rage quite. "Im to old for this crap".

I remember this one, and I almost rage quit as well... until I discovered that the statue in the chapel is still sanctified, meaning that any Undead that come near it are instakilled. More than that, you can climb on top of the statue to be safe from the Undead. I had to lure a great many of them to the statue, but it greatly thinned their numbers.

Navigating the cellar was still crap though.
 

toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
441
Do you guys think that if either the source was leaked or, which is probably even less likely since SE doesn't seem to care about any Eidos IP that isn't TR, someone like Night Dive did a remaster of Thief 1/2, that could revive the FM-making scene in any way?
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,280
Do you guys think that if either the source was leaked or, which is probably even less likely since SE doesn't seem to care about any Eidos IP that isn't TR, someone like Night Dive did a remaster of Thief 1/2, that could revive the FM-making scene in any way?
Revive?
It is not dead.New fm's come regularly and that is even for stuff like dark mod which is somewhat niche among the thief community.
 

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