This explains so much about Human Revolution.

[Wyrmlord]

Meltdown just linked to a Making Of video for Human Revolution in General RPG Discussion, which showed that -

The boss fights in Human Revolution were an outsourced creation of another developer. And that developer knew next to nothing about the game.

No wonder HR had such awful boss fights that totally broke away from the general mold and style of the game. Boss fights in HR felt like boxing matches in Fallout 2, which felt like a switch to a different kind of game altogether. Except boxing/kung-fu matches in Fallout 2 were optional, and not particularly bad either.

Not that many developers read the Codex anymore, but if there is anyone who does: never ever outsource a part of your game to be handled by outsiders. They will ruin it.

 

[sea]

It's not just outsourcing that's the problem. Tons of developers outsource for art assets, sound and music voice recording, even design (like multiplayer levels). The problem is when you don't give the people handling those aspects of your game sufficient instruction, design guidance and so on. I'm sure the people who made the boss fights in Human Revolution were perfectly capable - my guess is they simply didn't understand the game very well and didn't have the resources they needed on hand. If anyone is to blame, it's Eidos' management and a lack of communication overall.

 

[Grunker]

Hell, I'd be more inclined to excuse the terrible gameplay if at least my inner storyfag was satisfied. Just the slightest connection to or knowledge of the bosses you fight would be a bit soothing. You literally have zero knowledge about the bosses you fight except how they look. Contrast this to fighting people like Simon who are directly connected to the game.

In essence, HR boss fights are terrible in every sense of the word. Fortunately they are shit easy when you find the appropriate method to cheese them.

 

[MetalCraze]

Wyrmlord is saying it like someone on the dev team knew something about Deus Ex.

Last time I've checked the "original developer" thought that Deus Ex is a Gears of War clone with a first person when moving too.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Reading some of the emails in Human Revolution, I saw that David Sarif was speaking about how he refused to allow Lucius DeBeers to meet him in his office, because he hated the Illuminati's guts.

Lucius DeBeers? That is a superbly well hidden secret in Deus Ex. There are Deus Ex fans I know who don't know who Lucius DeBeers is.

This tidbit indicates that Eidos Montreal did its homework and played Deus Ex extensively enough to know the innermost secrets of the game.

At least lorewise, EM had some semblance of having any idea about Deus Ex and very carefully weaved its universe into its own work.

 

[Wyrmlord]

The game also reveals the kind of world from which Gunther Hermann or Anna Navarre came.

When you hear Ezekiel Sandoval say, "I knew plenty of you augs from back in the Gulf. You always try to get ahead of normals by any means possible", he was echoing the kind of bloodthirst for which Hermann and Navarre were known.

When Brent Sandford talks about how mechanical augmentations kill any sense of mercy in augmented people by segregating them from fellow humans, he is nicely echoing General Sam Carter's email about Walton Simons and people like him in Deus Ex.

Like I said, they did their homework and it shows. It would have been cooler if it were more reflected in certain aspects of gameplay, but still.

 

[MetalCraze]

This tidbit indicates that Eidos Montreal did its homework and played Deus Ex extensively enough to know the innermost secrets of the game.

You mean by having its source codes from where they got a few obscure references?
The fail is also in that DXHR is a prequel - and the gameworld in it is extremely inconsistent with original Deus Ex. You could actually see retards were cloning Bioshock at first but then they remembered they own Deus Ex.

If they actually played Deus Ex it wouldn't be Gears of War.

At least lorewise, EM had some semblance of having any idea about Deus Ex and very carefully weaved its universe into its own work.

If it was named with some other name there would not be much difference. Console shooters are all the same.
(I mean when I first saw FEAR 3 gameplay video I seriously thought it was a footage from CoD BlackOps lawl)

 

[Grunker]

If they actually played Deus Ex it wouldn't be Gears of War.

Where is the connection between playing a great game and not making a bad one?

Sometimes Skyway...

 

[MetalCraze]

The connection is that nothing in DXHR has any connection to the original Deus Ex apart from augs which themselves are not different from shit you can see in Crysis 2 f.e.

If they've "done their homework" DXHR wouldn't differ in almost everything:
- gameworld design
- lore design
- gameplay design
- level design
etc.

Original Deus Ex was all about proceeding carefully and thinking about your next steps
DXHR is all about rushing right into the center of enemies, diving behind the box and popping heads. Of course if you are a masochist you may play retarded next-gen "stealth" which is simply exploiting the non-existent AI

 

[Grunker]

Not that I agree, but even if it's true there is no reason the devs couldn't know every little detail about Deus Ex and still make shit game. That's the -part of your post.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Like what part of HR resembled BioShock?

Maybe the Upper City of Hengsha - an artificial city created in the skies to house people so exclusive that even wealthy men like Lee Hong didn't live there.

Except the Upper City was a brief part of the game, and you saw a very small part of it. So I am not where the BioShock is in this game.

(Not that I am one of the HR fanboys, and not that I even would replay it, but I am just starting to see it as a rather surprising development to come from the makers of Rainbow Six Vegas, and one that could have had yet more potential.)

 

[MetalCraze]

Not that I agree, but even if it's true there is no reason the devs couldn't know every little detail about Deus Ex and still make shit game. That's the -part of your post.

My post was a reply to Wyrmy and his "devs totally did their homework"

Hey I don't doubt Sawyer also played Fallout for 3 minutes before turning it off due to it not being a console shooter and then shitting out New Vegas.

Like what part of HR resembled BioShock?

They were clearly going for the next-gen "renaissance era" at first as can be seen from some game art pieces (incl. some costumes) and initial art of the game.

 

[Wyrmlord]

The Renaissance Era. Yes.

I was one of the bitchers about it, pre-release. I also believed they were trying to imitate BioShock in creating a futuristic world with a retro touch. Now I remember.

Surprisingly enough, this awful idea DID NOT MAKE IT INTO THE FINAL GAME. Only Eliza Cassan is seen wearing all that kind of fashion clothing. Thank GOODNESS for that. Most people wear normal everyday clothing.

So it's like those developers started out not knowing a single thing about Deus Ex, but midway through development, they actually played the first game alot, and then they realized, "We are making a bunch of crap, when the original game has so much cool stuff in it. And we were wrong to call Deus Ex a boring game." Next thing, development time doubles and this newer version of Human Revolution is released.

(All the same, wasn't the new XCOM trying to go for a 1950s look? That will be funny.)

 

[Wyrmlord]

DXHR is all about rushing right into the center of enemies, diving behind the box and popping heads. Of course if you are a masochist you may play retarded next-gen "stealth" which is simply exploiting the non-existent AI

I played the latter levels without doing either. So it's not the complete picture of the game.

It requires augmentations however, before you can play this game as a normal shooter.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

hahaha no shut up you pop moles so i am win console shooters black ops baked beans eat my facts codex faggots

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Niggas, please. Why are you responding to Skyway here? You should have realized by now that he hasn't played EITHER Deus Ex or Human Revolution!

 

[Menckenstein]

What are the chances that Gunther is in the upcoming DLC?

 

[Raghar]

DXHR is all about rushing right into the center of enemies, diving behind the box and popping heads. Of course if you are a masochist you may play retarded next-gen "stealth" which is simply exploiting the non-existent AI

Stop playing on easy. The only way how to blow a group of enemies is Typhoon.

 

[Multidirectional]

Of course if you are a masochist you may play retarded next-gen "stealth" which is simply exploiting the non-existent AI

See guys? Skyway played the first game so he knows how much better AI is in that one. There's no point in arguing, he knows his shit.

 

[Gord]

Indeed, had the boss fights been optional, or more precisely, uphold the design principle of alternative solutions and the bosses been introduced earlier in any meaningful way, they might have been not that bad actually.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO AI CANT GET MUCH WORSE THAN DEUS EX THE ORIGINAL AT LEAST FOR A SHOOTER WITH STEALTH SHIT

 

[Grunker]

i agree bro but who talks about ai in this thread except skyway but i mean come on

 

[Angthoron]

Skyway posts; public in uproar.

Anyway, yeah, that's an incredible brainfart by the management. Why did they even need to outsource it? It's not like the fights were anything fantastic to begin with.

 

[Kane]

Meltdown just linked to a Making Of video for Human Revolution in General RPG Discussion, which showed that -

The boss fights in Human Revolution were an outsourced creation of another developer. And that developer knew next to nothing about the game.

No wonder HR had such awful boss fights that totally broke away from the general mold and style of the game. Boss fights in HR felt like boxing matches in Fallout 2, which felt like a switch to a different kind of game altogether. Except boxing/kung-fu matches in Fallout 2 were optional, and not particularly bad either.

Not that many developers read the Codex anymore, but if there is anyone who does: never ever outsource a part of your game to be handled by outsiders. They will ruin it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoFe8hRy ... r_embedded

 

[J_C]

I've just finished Deus Ex: HR.

Action-RPG of the year. (Well, this and the Witcher 2).
























Haters gonna hate.