Information Thorvalla Kickstarter goes online

[Wyrmlord]

I can't grasp how an industry veteran like Guido would make a mistake like this.

Maybe:

1. Game development was very informal in the 1980s and 1990s.
2. Being in the cell phone gaming scene kept the man out of touch.
3. Both.

If it is especially #1, then I shudder to think of a time in gaming where a man would come to execs with a vague pitch and get a million dollars for it.

 

[Jarpie]

Neal Hallford in the comments:

Hey guys, as one of the people involved in MAKING this project, please know that this isn't a blood sport. Nobody gets extra points for bashing other backers whether they are for or against any of the ideas that we put out there. There are going to be disagreements, but don't get personal here. There's no call to be purposefully uncivil. The anonymity of the Internet makes things bad enough. We're adults here. Let's act like it.

Guido and I both understand that this can seem unnerving to the uninitiated. We both have been in the position of being the new guy who watched multi-million dollar projects get greenlighted by the management of big game companies, sometimes approved on nothing more than a two page summary and a crude sketch. The reality of it is that this isn't significantly different than the way some "real" game companies develop their titles. EVERY game starts off as a gamble, and with a million fiddly little details up in the air well into the development process. In 22 years of game development, I have never ended up with a game that exactly matched the design proposal I started off with. The big broad strokes are usually still the same, but the five bajillion little systems that I thought sounded AWESOME at the start ended up being unworkable or just not fun at the end of the day. So don't get worked up over the small details. Until this is officially in production and has been reality tested, this is all a best-guess. And at least be assured that the guys making the best guesses have hit the target more times than they've missed it. We'll get some things wrong along the way. Absolutely we will. But we'll also get a lot right. And you'll be giving us exactly the same flexibility that the people with the directors with the purse strings gave us when we made the hit games we both made in the past. I know it's hard to have faith, especially when this whole process is new to you, but as I said before, this is honestly the way it has often worked in the big shops. If you want to understand this process more thoroughly, go google the phrase "agile development" so you'll see how this works. Start with the small stuff, test, innovate, and iterate. Go from the vauge to the specific, but only once you've established you're on the right path.

We are both very honored that you've chosen to donate to this project, and thus your comments mean even more to us than those who remain out there in the world, complaining about something they haven't even really bothered to investigate. Presumably all of you have donated to this project because there's something here you believed in. Maybe it was what you read on the page. Maybe it was in the update. Maybe it was just because you loved a game that Guido or I made. Regardless of your reasons, your donations are paving the way to allowing us to get done. But we need something from you right now that's just as important as your donation. We need you to spread the good word. If you want this to happen, it's no good just debating about it here because this is the choir loft. Everyone in this list is here because they wanted to make this happen. We need you to amplify the signal. We need you to share with your friends, to tweet to your fellow gamers, to post in forums outside because those are all the people we haven't reached. People who arrive on Kickstarter through the personal recommendation of a friend are 70% more likely to donate than those who simply discover a campaign randomly. If you believe in this project, if you CARE about this project, then please reach out and make it a personal goal to bring in one, two, or three more friends who care about RPGs as you do. Do more than talk about it, be ACTIVE about it. Because we haven't spent a million dollars on an ad buy, the ONLY way we get this message out there and attract the donors who will get us to a fully funded project is if you pitch in and amplify the signal. And if you aren't prepared to reach out and do that, then don't complain about our "numbers" not being where you want them to be. We need your help. You HAVE influence. Do something positive and awesome with it.

Best wishes,
Neal Hallford
Thorvalla - Lead Writer

 

[Mabuse]

I was baffled after watching his pitch. I mean, even if one's name is Guido Henkel one can't expect people to give him 1 mln $ based solely on musings about glorious past, mentioning TEH DRAGONZ (YAY!), and 4-5 quick sketches. Have you noticed how the first of the drawings took like half a century of screen time? I mean, FFS, it's just a quick "generic fantasy sketch with unnecessary anime influences", certainly nothing to harass your Peter the Great about!

Double Fine guys were talking about nothing too, but:
1. they were the first industry veterans on KS and
2. their pitch was very well written and played.

I wish he would meet his goal though, RoA dad and all.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

 

[PosledniKovboj]

Well this is what you all wanted to hear. It's been said, time to donate.

Most of the people here already donated, we're ranting because nobody else will. Keep up

 

[Sacred_Path]

Quick, archive this thread! Someone has predicted fail!

 

[evdk]

I'd say the weird card game combat is more rage worthy. I can't for the love of me visualize how it is supposed to work.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

Not really related, but: there was a NWN2 mod that had excellent card-based combat as a minigame. AFAIR you still had normal combat, but you could get into some sort of tavern spiel and you'd battle your cards against your opponent, it was done very well.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

 

[majestik12]

Well this is what you all wanted to hear. It's been said, time to donate.

Most of the people here already donated, we're ranting because nobody else will. Keep up

Exactly.

I'd say the weird card game combat is more rage worthy. I can't for the love of me visualize how it is supposed to work.

IMO, it could work. But they should have approached this matter in a different manner. Either leave it out if the initial pitch or give more details, if they see it as a crucial feature.

The whole deal boils down to that. Poor marketing skills ruin what could become a fantastic project. They really need to join forces with someone who knows how to sell shit (like one particular ubersturmfuhrer).

 

[St. Toxic]

970 000 to go.

 

[evdk]

The whole deal boils down to that. Poor marketing skills ruin what could become a fantastic project. They really need to join forces with someone who knows how to sell shit.

Someone could probably make a decent living running other people's Kickstarter campaigns for them. Of course this opens the door for the return of publishers and once they get a get a foot in all is fucked.

 

[majestik12]

The whole deal boils down to that. Poor marketing skills ruin what could become a fantastic project. They really need to join forces with someone who knows how to sell shit.

Someone could probably make a decent living running other people's Kickstarter campaigns for them. Of course this opens the door for the return of publishers and once they get a get a foot in all is fucked.

We should all withdraw our pledges and use the money to hire Vince as Thorvalla Kickstarter Crysis Manager.

 

[evdk]

This Kickstarter ends on: Thursday

 

[Zed]

Okay so they will try to salvage what they have instead of making something new.
The update is nice.

As I see it, they now have two major issues. They had to explain the combat, so don't get me wrong, but now they have to make people understand how it works in practice. Because cards.

There's also the issue of pledge levels. 700 out of 960 backers are pledging at the $15 early bird level. $10 difference between early bird and standard; $15 difference between standard and +soundtrack; $10 difference between soundtrack and digital art book+forum badge.
Then all of a sudden it gets expensive as hell for physical items with very little information about them.
Who's the composer, what type of music will it be? Who contributes to the art book? What's the exclusive image on the mousepad - and what are the specifications of the mousepad? Size of the sinegraph? Print on the T-shirt? Etc.
Shadowrun Returns had pretty good descriptions and pledge levels: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns

What if it looked like this...

$20 - early bird (max 800). Includes exclusive backers-only scroll in-game which tells you a cool story penned by Neal.
$25 - standard "get the game digitally" pledge + KS only Neal story, same as above.
$30 - same as above + wallpaper + the main theme song from the soundtrack.
$40 - same as above + full digital sountrack
$50 - same as above + digital art book
$60 - COMPLETE DIGITAL TIER same as above + "making of thorvalla" (digital, image-based "this is what/how I thought" by Guido. could be something like an image of the world and then there's short annotations for locations on what inspired them and so on)
$75- same as above + physical box (+$15 int ship)
$90 - same as above + t-shirt, poster and stickers (+$20 int ship)
$100 - same as above (t-shirt, poster, stickers) + mousepad (+$20 int ship)
$120 - same as above except the physical box is replaced with a collector's edition (+$20 int ship)
$200 - same as above but the box or poster (your choice) is signed by Guido
$300 - same as above + that senigraph
$500 (max 100) - same as above + printed art book and your name mentioned somehow in the game (through a book or item description or something).
$750 (max 50) - same as above but your name is more prominent, like having an NPC named after you.
$1000 (max 35) - same as above but you also get an in-game runestone raised in your honor (YES -- THEMATIC BITCHESSsss)
$2000 (max 10) - same as above, but you also get a physical miniature of your runestone because YESSs

no retarded "come to our party" 10k levels.

 

[turbo elephant]

Yesterday some space game raised like what.. 6 mil?

Crowdfunding is viable. You just have to do it right.

It's Star Citizen. I checked it out because you wrote this. Good pledge video, guy invested money and showed how his game will look. I'm up for a good space sim, I might buy it.

Neal Hallford in the comments: But we need something from you right now that's just as important as your donation. We need you to spread the good word.

So crowd promotion. Ummm sorry that's not my job. Do your own promotion, this sounds really lazy to me.

 

[PosledniKovboj]

I always wondered. How do those "come to our party" 10k levels play out? There's a huge party full of neckbeards in coffee stained shirts and you sit at a table and drink root beer with the male intern?

 

[Wyrmlord]

As I understand, Thorvalla might look something like this:

but with possibly hexes and less of a manga style?

It sounds interesting. But would this be a sort of game suited for PC, or something more suited for cell phones? That's the only mild concern.

 

[CSM]

Why would anyone fund this crap? These guys obviously don't know what they are doing.

One million dollars for a couple of has-beens ? Sure, that's totally going to happen.

 

[evdk]

We should resurrect Stonekeep 2 instead!

 

[Charles-cgr]

Why would anyone fund this crap? These guys obviously don't know what they are doing.

One million dollars for a couple of has-beens ? Sure, that's totally going to happen.

All of the late 80s early 90s devs were has-beens until some of them came back to the height of their glory thanks to crowd-funding. Henkel and Hallford's big sin was getting there last (unlike Romero and Brathwaite who suffered from an apparent lack of sincerity). I really don't see anything else. Their pitch is standard fare for KS, give or take a few details.

The same thing would likely happen if JVC gave it a shot. Now that is very sad indeed.

 

[FeelTheRads]

One million dollars for a couple of has-beens ? Sure, that's totally going to happen.

No, better several millions for a couple of has-beens.

 

[General Maxson]

Why would anyone fund this crap? These guys obviously don't know what they are doing.

One million dollars for a couple of has-beens ? Sure, that's totally going to happen.

All of the late 80s early 90s devs were has-beens until some of them came back to the height of their glory thanks to crowd-funding. Henkel and Hallford's big sin was getting there last (unlike Romero and Brathwaite who suffered from an apparent lack of sincerity). I really don't see anything else. Their pitch is standard fare for KS, give or take a few details.

The same thing would likely happen if JVC gave it a shot. Now that is very sad indeed.

JVC we love you!

This is going to fail miserably, and what you are saying about JVC is also true, and very, very sad. I really wish Guido prepared epically for this kickstarter, and found someone who can put him in the right direction, because this could have been a great crpg, if only they made a good effort in marketing it. Now it will be a miserable failure, and there could be no second chance.

 

[Jasede]

Ah c'mon, MOTB was good and fairly recent, and arguably so was NV.
Say what you want about the engine; the game is designed and written competently.

 

[Smejki]

Game development was very informal in the 1980s and 1990s.

Nope. It just wasn't that much fabulating as it is now.