Information Thorvalla Kickstarter goes online

[Infinitron]

Lori's comment is currently on the second page here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/comments

Feel free to go there and tell her what you think of it.

 

[CSM]

Everybody cares about budget Dragon Age, though.
People should be banned for this kind of idiocy.



Obviously people should get money for a funny video.



Yeah, man, 900k is so much more humble.

Since this Kickstarter is raking in so much cash, it's obvious you're right.

People clearly care about another Realms of Arkania, that's why they're lining up by the thousands to invest in this project.

The pitch could not have been executed better with the massive amounts of money that is accumulating in Henkel's wallet.

And the goal will surely be reached any moment now. What with all the cash people are throwing at them and such. Just incomprehensible that they set it this low.

I was obviously wrong, sir. My apologies.

Now can you please direct me back to my home dimension, I seem to have gotten stranded on planet X again.

 

[evdk]

Don't you think it's kind of poor form to diss somebody else's project after yours just made it through by the skin of its teeth? Have you ever seen any other Kickstarter dev do such a thing? (well, except Cleve)

I am not entirely thrilled by the comment (mostly due to the old glass houses saying, not over any lack of veracity), but it's nothing I would demand the return of my money over. And their own KS might have struggled but it still was better presented that Thorvalla so far.

 

[CSM]

And seriously "budget Dragon Age", what are you talking about? Who made a Kickstarter pitch based on Dragon Age?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Lori Cole: "Fuck that loser."

Umm, yeah, actually no. If you want to make this comparison then she would be David Brevik not Jay Wilson.

 

[FeelTheRads]

People clearly care about another Realms of Arkania, that's why they're lining up by the thousands to invest in this project.

Ah, OK, got it. If it's not popular with the kids then fuck it who gives a shit about it.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Name recognition does count, which is why I'll amend my statement by saying that coming in last wasn't their biggest mistake, but not including Neal in the video. BaK probably has more impact than RoA. The sum of the two would probably have done better. Also Neal worked on MMIII.

 

[evdk]

And seriously "budget Dragon Age", what are you talking about? Who made a Kickstarter pitch based on Dragon Age?

That's one of VotS's charming nicknames for P:E, IIRC.

 

[CSM]

Schaefer, Avellone, Lowe, Coles, Weisman, and that early 80s dungeon crawler guy's name is slipping my mind...

Oh you aren't just talking about RPG's.

Well, people actually know and care about Leasure Suit Larry, Quest For Glory, Space Quest, Broken Sword, Fallout, Monkey Island, Baldur's Gate, Wing Commander,...

And Double Fine Productions and Obsidian Entertainment (how on earth are Avellone and Schafer has-beens?) are making popular games today.

No one gives a shit about Realm of Arkania however.

Sorry.

 

[evdk]

 

[CSM]

Ah, OK, got it. If it's not popular with the kids then fuck it who gives a shit about it.

Well you should give a fuck about what "the kids" (thirtysomethings are apparently kids now) think because they're the ones supposed to cough up a million dollars.

 

[Alex]

You have to be reasonable - if it had even more micromanagement than RoA, only Codexers would pledge. This needs to appeal to a broader audience (not PE broad, but still broad enough to raise a million). Personally I think the update was good, hopefully this can start gathering some steam.

Well, if they try to go too middle ground, not only won't non codexers pledge, the codexers won't either.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, people actually know and care about Leasure Suit Larry, Quest For Glory, Space Quest,

No one gives a shit about Realm of Arkania however.

Would you mind telling us how you reached that conclusion? Except "this kickstarter isn't making money LOL" that is.

how on earth are Avellone and Schafer has-beens?

What did Avellone do of importance since PST? What did Schafer do since Grim Fandango? Oh yeah, they show their face and like to talk in front of a camera. Also kids know about them. Let's give them money.

 

[Grunker]

Obviously people should get money for a funny video.

So you're saying these developers intentionally shouldn't put thought and wit into their Kickstarter campaigns because fuck reason?

Should and will are two different concepts, and as long as it doesn't hurt the game, what the fuck is wrong with doing a proper campaign?

I'm not saying they shouldn't. I'm saying that pledging based on "wit" is wrong. And actually demanding that everybody is comfortable in front of a camera or charismatic is ridiculous. See those derpy comments the Coles got, pretty much like this one: HURR DURR SOME CREEPY LOOKING HAS BEENS. But yeah, Kickstarter is totally awesome and not a popularity contest and will definitely not be ruined by the lowest common denominator just like everything else.

I guess I agree in principle, but I'm interested in what makes these projects succeed, and whatever flashy effects they use to draw in the proletariat is fine by me

Failing to complete the project because they didn't do their homework saddens me, since these are the kind of projects I want to play.

What a douche.

So, you're fine with criticizing it the same way, but she's not allowed? And then you go cry when developers don't speak their mind for fear of repercussions? How does that work?

Nigga what? Three things:

1) First off, my "douche" comment was made because of the "HAHA LOOK THEY HAVE NO CHANCE AT MAKING THE KIND OF MONEY OUR FANTASTIC PROJECT DID, NYAH."

2) There is a big difference between criticizing someone to make them improve, and gleefully trampling them while they're down on their own KS-page.

3) The above is compounded by the fact that this is not just a random internet dude but another fucking developer who should know better than to utilize this kind of arrogance towards fellow-minded colleagues.

You see, there is such a thing as a nuanced opinion. You don't have to say "LOL FANTASTIC PITCH EVERYTHING IS GREAT" or "SHIT KICKSTARTER I HATE EVERYTHING IT STANDS FOR."

 

[Jasede]

Well, people actually know and care about Leasure Suit Larry, Quest For Glory, Space Quest,

No one gives a shit about Realm of Arkania however.

Would you mind telling us how you reached that conclusion? Except "this kickstarter isn't making money LOL" that is.

how on earth are Avellone and Schafer has-beens?

What did Avellone do of importance since PST? What did Schafer do since Grim Fandango? Oh yeah, they show their face and like to talk in front of a camera. Also kids know about them. Let's give them money.

You're such a jerk.
Maybe they weren't important to you but MotB, Kotor 2 and Dead Money were fantastically well-written and engrossing experiences, for all their mechanical flaws.
"What did he do of importance", bah!

 

[CSM]

Would you mind telling us how you reached that conclusion? Except "this kickstarter isn't making money LOL" that is.

Are you really going to argue that those aren't much better known game franchises? Really?

What did Avellone do of importance since PST? What did Schafer do since Grim Fandango?

Google their names and check on Wikipedia, you lazy fuck.

 

[FeelTheRads]

"HAHA LOOK THEY HAVE NO CHANCE AT MAKING THE KIND OF MONEY OUR FANTASTIC PROJECT DID, NYAH."

Which she didn't. They've always been humble about the sum they did, it would have been ridiculous to be otherwise. So it's not "it won't get the ton of money we got" but rather "it won't even get to the measly amount we got".

and gleefully trampling them while they're down on their own KS-page.

Well, shit, "did not impress me" is trampling now. Guess Jay Wilson was right then to go all "Fuck that loser" for that horrible trampling he got.

"SHIT KICKSTARTER I HATE EVERYTHING IT STANDS FOR."

Show me where it says that.

 

[Grunker]

Show me where it says that.

It was a comment about what you implicitly accused me of; that because I critized Thorvalla's pitch AND Lori's way of her own criticism of Thorvalla's pitch, I had double standards. Which is bull.

And yes. Another developer - one who might influence backers because many of these are interested in both games - should not target another developer on their own KS-page specifically unless they genuinely want to trample someone who is lying down. If her only wish was, in fact, to help Henkel improve, there is no reason to shame him in public like that.

I'm a backer, my chance of communication with Henkel is through the comment-page. Of course I go there to express my sadness that we might not get to play his game because he didn't take the time to do a proper pitch. I'm just some fucking guy. She's a developer, one who just finished her own campaign.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Google their names and check on Wikipedia, you lazy fuck.

HURR DURR. Again, what did they do of importance? Because I don't care about anything else they did since then. As such, they're has-beens. I don't give a shit how popular they are now, they're has-beens for me, won't give them money. Isn't that your approach?

Are you really going to argue that those aren't much better known game franchises? Really?

How does that make it "nobody cares about it"? And what the fuck is your point? That if they don't have the recognition those others have they don't deserve to make it? And others deserve to make it just because they're popular?

 

[mediocrepoet]

I don't think the Thorvalla pitch is all *that* terrible. Why not talk about the setting or whatever? He had a few notes about mechanics and such as well, even though it's at an early stage. The only thing I really found off-putting about the video is the lulzy music and THORVALLA! voice over, especially the one right at the end. I'm not sure if it was supposed to be funny or epic or what, it just made me roll my eyes and groan.

I think the bigger issue is simply a lot of Kickstarter projects in a relatively short span of time that are all aiming at the same demographic. Sure, maybe these projects won't start coming in for another 12-24 months at least, but you're paying now - quite possibly a higher amount than you'd pay for a game normally. If these projects were more spread out, they'd likely have a better chance at succeeding. Personally, it's not even that I'm concerned about projects being sketchy or having people run off with the money. It's that between my normal spending, pledging more than is probably reasonable on a few Kickstarter projects and Christmas being right around the corner, a pitch would have to show evidence of a true PC gaming revolution for me to even consider it right now and then I'd have to figure out where the money was coming from. If they were more spread out, I could see dropping reasonable pledges (say, $15-60) on more projects, but right now that's simply unfeasible since I can't figure out how to power my PC and get the internet while living in a cardboard box and eating out of a dumpster.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I don't think it's a matter of "deserving it" or not. I think most of us want Guido to succeed. However, you also have to consider reality here, because we're not living in lala-fairy tale land. And reality is, that pitch is very weak and unlikely to succeed. It doesn't take marketing suits to see that. A little more effort would have attracted a lot moe backers, though it is unfortunately true and sad that neither Henkel nor Realms of Arkania have a name recognition and reputation that could match that of Obsidian, Frago, Wasteland/Fallout or the IE games. So it is tue that their potential customer base is far more limited. But in such a situation it is even more important that your pitch is rock solid.

There's some simple stuff they could have done in the video to make their KS stand out more:
-Properly Introduce Henkel and Hallfod
-Introduce the the legendary games they did, ie. Realms of Arkania and Betrayal at Krondor, maybe even show some videos or screenshots
-explain what made those games so great in comparison to modern gaming. Explain how you want to bring back that kind of gaming in a time that is dominated by cinematic-style-win-button experiences.
-explain some of the key old-school featues you want to bring back - challenging turn based combat, the travel map with all its logistics and micomanagment, non-linear gameplay etc.
-introduce your team. Show that you have people working with you on this, that you are not just one guy sitting in you living room in front of a mac
-after this maybe spend a few minutes detailing the setting
-cut that crappy THOORWALLA narrator, who's stupid idea was that anyway?
-spread the word. Tell the press that Guido Henkel, the man who *is* the goddamn nameless one is launching a kickstarter campaign, and he wants YOUR money

It's no rocket science.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

No one gives a shit about Realm of Arkania however.

Would you mind telling us how you reached that conclusion? Except "this kickstarter isn't making money LOL" that is.

uhh...people who remembered the IE games fondly were the ones who funded "budget dragon age" and people who remember Wasteland 1 (an older game than the Arkania's) and Fallout 1-2 funded Wasteland 2...

so yeah, the numbers kind of show that significantly less people give a fuck about realms of arkania or at least remember it with as much heart throbbing fondness as the aforementioned titles.

truth be told Realms was ok and had a nice feel to it but it really isn't a classic that gets people all misty eyed and drunk on nostalgia.

 

[Alex]

After reading their update, I must say the kickstarter looks a lot better. At least I have a good idea of where they want to get, even if I don't like the direction they are taking that much. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Guido will get to try out his ideas for combat and whatnot. But what I really liked about RoA was how detailed and concrete it made a lot of concerns. The thing about card based combat is that, no matter how good or bad it ends up, it will always be more abstract than something where you get to choose your actions. So, well, not a deal breaker for me, but I still hoped for it to focus on the opposite side of the issue.

Also, he actually had me going with this:

The game will feature plenty of dialogue and as a result a proper dialogue system is imperative. To that effect, I am thinking of a text parser with natural language input. You know, the kind Text Adventures had in the 80s.
No, I’m just kidding, of course, but now that I think of it…
No, seriously. We will use a multiple-choice system for dialogues in the game. Time has shown us that it is the best way to deal with dialogue in games such as this to properly manage flow and make it user-friendly for the player.

 

[CSM]

HURR DURR. Again, what did they do of importance?Because I don't care about anything else they did since then. As such, they're has-beens. I don't give a shit how popular they are now, they're has-beens for me, won't give them money. Isn't that your approach?

Oh so for some dumb reason you don't like their games so they're has-beens. Got it.

How retarded are you exactly?

How does that make it "nobody cares about it"? And what the fuck is your point? That if they don't have the recognition those others have they don't deserve to make it? And others deserve to make it just because they're popular?

The point is that they're going to have to try harder to get any money because no one cares about their older stuff.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Oh so for some dumb reason you don't like their games so they're has-beens. Got it.

How retarded are you exactly?

So you want me to give them money just because of what they did up to a point or for some hits? Hmm. Otherwise you're telling me I should give them money because they're popular, which is pretty fucking retarded.

because no one cares about their older stuff.

You're a fucking moron. Period.