Game News THQ Nordic want to remake Gothic, playable teaser released to owners of previous Piranha Bytes games

[Bruma Hobo]

I was only talking about the setting itself, man.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Gothic did not allow players to change their gender. That makes BG and BG2 better by default. REE

 

[Havoc]

remove localized VA altogether and force the German VA across all regions

Agreed.

Poland has 10/10 Gothic VO so no.

 

[Lord of Riva]

Well, that's the thing. I haven't picked the topic. I wrote a whole long review of the remake where there's one tiny unimportant mention of one of my minor gripes with the series (it even received last listing). And as one could easily predict these days it triggered someone. No, we don't need to argue about the soul and nature of Gothic or which parts of its design philosophy are truly essential. I mentioned wahmen and that's what we need to generate a lot of pointless spam about.
Simply Codex

I believe im on your ignore list, which would fit standard MO, but I want to conclude this topic as well. If that is not the case I aplogize and will continue anyways.

I'm really a bit disappointed, "I didn't start this, he did!" is the weakest argument in any discussion.

The truth is that you openly posted a Review for the remake, a review that *MAY* be used by the developers for figuring out how to design the game and you got criticised for a part of it. It's kind of funny I agree with a lot of your review but my correction of your objective mistake that Gothic 1 had a problem with them (not-)including women and not commenting on their abscence (or rather low amount in game) let me quote you there :

maybe break-up the weird silent sausage party by introducing some women (into the world), or explore the consequences of their lack of presence.maybe break-up the weird silent sausage party by introducing some women (into the world), or explore the consequences of their lack of presence.

this is the last and also longest point of the negativ review regarding G1 ( just mentioning this because you tried to relativize it in #175)

However nobody forced you to mention, Ratios between the sexes, especially in G2 were the aspect clearly is not warrranted or mentioning racism due to lack of skin color diversity (which as explained is also simply not true)

You are certainly not the one who has the right to say "I didn't want this to happen", as for my part, I have absolutely no issue with scrutinizing something when it may affect a game I want to succeed, even if I don't believe on the basis we have that this is possible.

This debate, is as much a debate about the "soul and nature of Gothic" as a debate about the combat in the teaser. Last but not least, do not conflate your point with saying it's about women it's about feminism and that is absolutely not the same.

If these points are not coming up again I'm really fine with letting this rest there are clearly enough issues with the teaser that warrant attention.

remove localized VA altogether and force the German VA across all regions

Agreed.

Poland has 10/10 Gothic VO so no.

Yes, while I still prefer German as its the original language the polish VA sound really badass. You guys have some really good VA.

 

[Rarre]

It's my first post, but this teaser made me angry... I am a big fan of gothic, just replaying the second one with L'Hiver mod. Tried this shit, the only thing I liked was the loam textures, everything else should be destroyed. I can explain to the devs who created this casual shit how to fix IT. Simply delete everything, play all piranha bites games and mods, and start again with this remake. Plz don't rape gothic again...

 

[Old One]

Anyone who likes Gothic 1 should read Robert Heinlein's short story Coventry.

 

[Skdursh]

Well, well, well, it turns out that it's complete shit and of the team remaking the game not a soul among them have played any of the original Piranha Bytes classics. If they keep on the current path and release this it will bring a shame to the Gothic legacy potentially darker than even Arcania could muster.

 

[Not.AI]

Wanna comment. Gonna comment.

Impressed they made something in 90 days not bad.

Not impressed that most of what made Gothic great is just not there. Absent.

Gothic is first and foremost about a reactive, open world. Freedom.

Before DOSI,II also did it like that well. First game like that with real verticality. Before DII did verticality in an open world well.

Player agency is the name of the game. It is not about cinematics. Not even about multiple solutions per se. The story is what it is to allow storytelling that facilitates the reactive, open world. No more no less.

If there is a cliff, the player should be allowed to climb it, when they want to try climbing it, and if the make up, they should find unique loot. Repeat for all other aspects of the game.

Yes, the simple, flat armor system made for a visceral sense of "growth" with only a few hits required to win or lose. It made going from +10 to +12 significant. It just so happened that to be able to use the +12 sword instead of the +10 sword requiring training. Training and experience then seemed to affect abilities significantly. Every point counted. Which rewarded exploration. There is no actual exploration in a game if exploration is possible and there is something out there to explore but nobody actually explores. Nobody actually explores if they are not rewarded for exploration. The basic game loop depends on reward.

Any game with those two things will feel like Gothic. Any game without those two things, even one set in the same universe, even one with the same characters, will not feel like Gothic.

Making a clone of aspects of other successful existing games is also a bad move. Next big thing is almost never more of the same. Copying what is successful actually, counter-intuitively, is not a good idea. It does not lead to success. Rather it makes for undifferentiated product.

It would actually make more sense to double down on the original Gothic formula precisely because nobody else is doing it.

 

[trais]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Well, it's a penal colony in fantasy land. You can tell it's fantasty because:
- said penal colony is protected by a magic barrier
- there are only a few blacks in prison

 

[Cryomancer]

- there are only a few blacks in prison

Correct me if i an wrong, but is not truth that 100% of black population of the kingdom is on the prison?

---------------------

Anyway, as i've said in other topic. They should get rid of slow and boring minutes to kill/die combat, get rid of the controller focused UI, and only implement optional alterations - eg, a option to become water mage on chap 1/2, a option to become a guru and learn circle 5/6. Changes that the player can not follow if he doesn't like. Nobody wanna spend minutes to kill starting enemies. Imagine clearing orc town with this slow as hell combat

 

[Smejki]

It was PC to implement ugly-ass character models of slaves though I guess.

Also aren't Gorn and Saturas the only black people in the entire Gothic 3? I can't really remember.
How does this world work?!

Well, it's a penal colony in fantasy land. You can tell it's fantasty because:
- said penal colony is protected by a magic barrier
- there are only a few blacks in prison

Gothic 3

Gothic 3

Gothic 3

Well, it's a penal colony

- said penal colony is protected by a magic barrier

- there are only a few blacks in prison

Are you saying the king of Myrtana incarcerated all the existing black people? What a guy

 

[trais]

Gothic 3

Ok then, jokes aside, Gothic 3 take place in pseudo-Western Europe (Myrtana), pseudo-Scandinavia (Nordmar) and pseudo-Arabia (Varant). There are no indigenous black populations in those places irl, so it makes sense there would be none in game's universe as well. So I assume you're asking why there are even blacks in game at all? Well, one of them is an archmage of a quite well-established and respected order, who can also use magic to teleport around, so for him it's not that implausible he had traveled places. The other one is a fighter, so he probably went to Myrtana doing mercenary work, where he did something against the law and ended up behind the barrier.

 

[Cryomancer]

Ok then, jokes aside, Gothic 3 take place in pseudo-Western Europe (Myrtana), pseudo-Scandinavia (Nordmar) and pseudo-Arabia (Varant). There are no indigenous black populations in those places irl, so it makes sense there would be none in game's universe as well. So I assume you're asking why there are even blacks in game at all? Well, one of them is an archmage of a quite well-established and respected order, who can also use magic to teleport around, so for him it's not that implausible he had traveled places. The other one is a fighter, so he probably went to Myrtana doing mercenary work, where he did something against the law and ended up behind the barrier.

Have few blacks on Varant as slaves and eunuchs would make sense. Would cause massive butthurt on 2019/2020 but would make sense. I saw SJW's complaining that most slave owners and nobles and royalty in Empire of Brazil historical inspired "telenovels" was "white looking" and most slaves black.... Hell, only the fact that a woman is being send to the penal colony as a merchandise in the starting G1 cutscene would cause massive butthurt in modern days.

But yes, Gothic 3 offered explanations to why they are there. Saturas can teleport and is probably the most powerful water mage of the game. And the other probably was a mercenary.

(MINOR G3 SPOILER AHEAD) What makes no sense on G3 is the

Lago quest reveal - G3

water mage who was held captive in Lago. Why he can't blast this door with ice lance? Why he can't summon a golem? He can teach both spells to you if i remember correctly. On G2/1, people needs runes/scrolls to do magic, but on G3 since they use another type of magic, you just can't make any mage captive. Vatraz is a powerful magician, no prison should be able to keep him locked.

 

[ultra loser]

Gorn and Saturas aren't black, they are gypsies

 

[Morkar Left]

Gorn and Saturas aren't black, they are gypsies

They are from the Southern Isles as far as I remember. Those isles were never showed in Gothic.

 

[Smejki]

Gothic 3

Ok then, jokes aside, Gothic 3 take place in pseudo-Western Europe (Myrtana), pseudo-Scandinavia (Nordmar) and pseudo-Arabia (Varant). There are no indigenous black populations in those places irl, so it makes sense there would be none in game's universe as well. So I assume you're asking why there are even blacks in game at all? Well, one of them is an archmage of a quite well-established and respected order, who can also use magic to teleport around, so for him it's not that implausible he had traveled places. The other one is a fighter, so he probably went to Myrtana doing mercenary work, where he did something against the law and ended up behind the barrier.

If you try really hard, you can come up with 50 000 version of this headcanon. Which has never been a sign of good writing and lore design.

They are from the Southern Isles as far as I remember. Those isles were never showed in Gothic.

Huh, I wonder where this location has been mentioned. I don't remember it.
However Arcania takes place there, reportedly.
https://gothic.fandom.com/wiki/Southern_islands

 

[Morkar Left]

Gothic 3

Ok then, jokes aside, Gothic 3 take place in pseudo-Western Europe (Myrtana), pseudo-Scandinavia (Nordmar) and pseudo-Arabia (Varant). There are no indigenous black populations in those places irl, so it makes sense there would be none in game's universe as well. So I assume you're asking why there are even blacks in game at all? Well, one of them is an archmage of a quite well-established and respected order, who can also use magic to teleport around, so for him it's not that implausible he had traveled places. The other one is a fighter, so he probably went to Myrtana doing mercenary work, where he did something against the law and ended up behind the barrier.

If you try really hard, you can come up with 50 000 version of this headcanon. Which has never been a sign of good writing and lore design.

They are from the Southern Isles as far as I remember. Those isles were never showed in Gothic.

Huh, I wonder where this location has been mentioned. I don't remember it.
However Arcania takes place there, reportedly.
https://gothic.fandom.com/wiki/Southern_islands

There are some mentions here and there in the games, can't exactly quote where. Quick search only showed that: https://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/1542476-South-islands-in-gothic-3
And yes like I said there was no Gothic game that took place in it. I guess G4 was supposed to play there but they lost the rights to Gothic for some time and made Risen (which took some ideas from it and is imho kind of connected to the Gothic-Universe if you really want to see it).

 

[Cryomancer]

Huh, I wonder where this location has been mentioned. I don't remember it.
However Arcania takes place there, reportedly.
https://gothic.fandom.com/wiki/Southern_islands

ArcaniA is non canon.

See at 0:15



Gothic 4 - ArcaniA and Forsaken gods are non canon since 2011. Arcania is filler. And a awful filler with a lot of things that make ZERO sense. IE - Why magican robes who in all gothic games worked to provide protection and some times, a perk bonus(G3) now determine my character magical capabilities? Why runes are working now despite what Xardas did on G3? And why rune magic is now with cooldowns? Fuck this awful wow clone.

 

[Lord of Riva]

I'm not sure why it would be worthwhile to continue debating Gothic 3.

It suffered, regardless of why, a huge amount of quality.

As G3 is the sequel to G1 and G2 and there is absolutely no reason to think that there weren't "enough" (whatever that means it clearly isn't 2 or 3 like Smejki says all the time) dark-skinned people in these two games we can savely assume that the reason on why those models do not exist is the same reason a lot of the stuff that made Gothic good doesn't exist: The games quality is incredibly low in all regards.

So unless you want to push a narrative that has no grounds in reason, there is nothing to say about this specifically without pointing out that even outside of race there is a lack of NPC Variety in G3.

Why do you guys bother with pointing out the obvious? If there is any valid argument to be had regarding racism it's his Job to bring some clear evidence to the table and there simply is none.

 

[Cryomancer]

I'm not sure why it would be worthwhile to continue debating Gothic 3.

Me too BUT people debate G3 because while G1/G2 is considered a masterpiece by everyone, and everyone agrees that ArcaniA is trash, some people love G3, some like, some is neutral, some dislike and some hate. There are no need to debate something that 99,999% of people agree.

And as i've said in other topic, this teaser game remembers me a lot about ArcaniA.

• Console focused UI
• Handholding
• Linearity
• Heroic start
• Long and consequenceless combat
• (...)

 

[trais]

If you try really hard, you can come up with 50 000 version of this headcanon. Which has never been a sign of good writing and lore design.

What headcanon? I'm not spinning you a story of how Saturas or Gorn got to where they got to, I'm just merely pointing a fact that the game(s) depict only a small part of Gothic world and having characters that were born elsewhere isn't really that big of a deal.




Just curious, when you see a black guy on the street of Prague do you go all like "wtf, how is that possible, what kind of sorcery is this?" too or is it something you just cannot accept in video games?

 

[Cryomancer]

Just curious, when you see a black guy on the street of Prague do you go all like "wtf, how is that possible, what kind of sorcery is this?" too or is it something you just cannot accept in video games?

Nowadays is much easier legally and technologically speaking to migrate. I mean, you can travel from the southermost city of the world(Ushuaia) to Alaska in less than a day ( https://www.flightnetwork.com/destinations/Ushuaia/Ushuaia_Alaska.html ), without modern technology, traveling took far more time, the London to Philadelphia travel in colonial times took around 2 months ( https://www.answers.com/Q/In_coloni...avel_by_ship_from_Europe_to_colonial_New_York ) and considering that traveling in Africa in medieval times was pretty hard and harsh, see sub-saharan Africans on Europe would be far rarer than in modern days. This considering only the travel. The immigration laws on past was much more strict. And language barrier much more hard to break. Learn new languages in modern days are far more easy than in medieval times. How many percentage of the African population could read on medieval Africa?? How many people could travel the harsh desert, then the Mediterranean sea, then months of walking to north to get accepted in the "new country"? Probably very few...

That said, i don't disagree with you that Saturas and Gorn probably has reasons to be there. I just disagree with this argument in particular. I don't think that 2 African looking guys in a huge area, from desert to tundras is "over representation"...

 

[Sentinel]

Just curious, when you see a black guy on the street of Prague do you go all like "wtf, how is that possible, what kind of sorcery is this?" too or is it something you just cannot accept in video games?

Nowadays is much easier legally and technologically speaking to migrate. I mean, you can travel from the southermost city of the world(Ushuaia) to Alaska in less than a day ( https://www.flightnetwork.com/destinations/Ushuaia/Ushuaia_Alaska.html ), without modern technology, traveling took far more time, the London to Philadelphia travel in colonial times took around 2 months ( https://www.answers.com/Q/In_coloni...avel_by_ship_from_Europe_to_colonial_New_York ) and considering that traveling in Africa in medieval times was pretty hard and harsh, see sub-saharan Africans on Europe would be far rarer than in modern days. This considering only the travel. The immigration laws on past was much more strict. And language barrier much more hard to break. Learn new languages in modern days are far more easy than in medieval times. How many percentage of the African population could read on medieval Africa?? How many people could travel the harsh desert, then the Mediterranean sea, then months of walking to north to get accepted in the "new country"? Probably very few...

That said, i don't disagree with you that Saturas and Gorn probably has reasons to be there. I just disagree with this argument in particular. I don't think that 2 African looking guys in a huge area, from desert to tundras is "over representation"...

please change your profile picture.

 

[Cryomancer]

please change your profile picture.

Why? And why you are talking about my pic here?

 

[Sentinel]

please change your profile picture.

Why? And why you are talking about my pic here?

It annoys and unsettles me.