ToEE is fucking awesome bros

[Leimrey]

I would assumed that what you called "castrated spellcasters" would pose some challenge.

You misunderstood me. I didn't find the game challenging, but that's only half of my beef with it. The other half is due to the fact that I was denied further character progression and higher spell levels, which open more tactical options that, in turn, lead to more diverse and fun gameplay. Again, this is hardly acceptable in a h&s/dungeon crawling oriented game.

Keep in mind that Troika implemented the ToEE AD&D module and tried to be faithful

Then they've chosen a shitty module to implement in a cRPG.

Play ToEE with a party of 5 or 6 and stop crying.

I find it ironic that you've posted this on a forum that advocates the freedom of choice and multiple approaches in RPGs.

And install Co8 modpack FFS! Level cap gets raised to 20.

I don't think I will be trying that any time soon as I doubt that it fixes the shitty encounter design. Sure, I will get my character progression back, but will I get any adequate enemies that will actually pose a threat to my party this way? Mindlessly killing Bugbears by the hundreds is not my idea of fun.

If that is your main concern, then why don't you go play some MMO then?

Why should I play MMO's when there are other D&D RPGs with actually good encounter design and challenging combat out there? RPGs like MotB and ToB (with the semi-official Ascension mod by Gaider himself) do not hinder character advancement throughout the whole campaign, but keep an appropriate difficulty level at all times.

 

[Leimrey]

Also, I find IWD2 superior to ToEE in every way imaginable, be it story, dialogues, quests, encounter design, you name it. Even the idea of hindering player character progression for the sake of balance is implemented better here, as the player is not denied the feeling of advancement while still facing challenging opponents.

 

[LeStryfe79]

WTF???

 

[Cynic]

ITT one butthurt newfag.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Nah, alt of 1eyedking, more likely. He was crazy about IWD2.

 

[Cynic]

I'm going to try IWD2 (I gave up on the original because I was a storyfag at the time) maybe after this...but I have to say, the IE has lost a lot of its charm for me. Recreate IWD2 with the ToEE engine...that would be...

 

[Deitti]

everything that guy whines about is fixed by co8 mods new content anyway. higher level cap, more challenging encounters, more story in all the new places and so on so on.

although i liked vanilla ToEE just fine aswell, the mod just improves on it in every way.

 

[kaizoku]

Play ToEE with a party of 5 or 6 and stop crying.

I find it ironic that you've posted this on a forum that advocates the freedom of choice and multiple approaches in RPGs.

Now I see it. You were trolling all along.

I suggested that because of the unbalance in AD&D between spellcasters and non-spellcasters.
While in the first levels they are almost useless, after that spellcasters become more powerful than the other classes and the difference keeps on increasing.
So in order to increase that gap even more you decided to play with a party of 2 spellcasters in order to level up faster.

The other half is due to the fact that I was denied further character progression and higher spell levels, which open more tactical options that, in turn, lead to more diverse and fun gameplay. Again, this is hardly acceptable in a h&s/dungeon crawling oriented game.

Yet you refuse to play it with a bigger party and enjoy the tactical opportunities it offers.

Then they've chosen a shitty module to implement in a cRPG.

And they were forced to rush the product before time.
Wait I know what you'll say next

Then they should have worked their lazy asses more.

And install Co8 modpack FFS! Level cap gets raised to 20.

I don't think I will be trying that any time soon as I doubt that it fixes the shitty encounter design. Sure, I will get my character progression back, but will I get any adequate enemies that will actually pose a threat to my party this way? Mindlessly killing Bugbears by the hundreds is not my idea of fun.

suit yourself

 

[PorkaMorka]

I didn't really find TOEE or IWD2 very good. Those are the only two D&D games with proper tactical combat that I recall quitting part way through.

TOEE encounter design is really bad, making the combat encounters uninteresting despite the good engine. You rarely faced tactically interesting enemy groups with a range of abilities. There is also nothing remotely resembling a reason for you to penetrate the temple as a good party, nothing pushing you onward, you just go down because it is there.

KOTC honestly had a better plot and KOTC's plot was the kind of plot you'd find in an 8 bit game.

It's a lot tougher to explain why I didn't like IWD2, my interest level just petered out towards the end of the rather tedious ice castle. I guess it felt like a big step back from BG2. It just didn't have enough momentum and interesting content to get me to slog through mindless IE battles that had been done better elsewhere and were by now very tired.

Anyway, KOTC is by far the best third edition game, despite the fact that it is not technically a third edition game. Shame about the limited character building though.

 

[Cynic]

I've come across a quite few good encounters so far. Make no mistake, I love this game, but I do think that Fireball and Lightning bolt, as always, are horribly OP'd. Maybe I need to wait till I get a bit further into the temple.

 

[gunman]

About IWD2 vs TOEE, since both games are all about combat, the implementation of combat in TOEE is clearly superior to IWD2. You can actually plan a strategy in TOEE while in IWD it's the usual Infinity Engine: select all and attack one monster at a time, with rare occasions when spellcasters buff the party or soften the enemies.

If you find TOEE easy, play it Iron Man. I've completed it in Iron Man mode with a full party - pretty standard but containing a paladin - which does not give many options inside temple. The only battle I avoided was with Balor - I was afraid of the motherfucker and I was too far into the game to take any chances.

 

[kaizoku]

You should *not* really play in ironman, the problem being the save game corruptions that can happen.
At least that's what Co8 says.

 

[Shannow]

Also, I find IWD2 superior to ToEE in every way imaginable, be it story, dialogues, quests, encounter design, you name it. Even the idea of hindering player character progression for the sake of balance is implemented better here, as the player is not denied the feeling of advancement while still facing challenging opponents.

I can imagine "graphics". I can also imagine "combat mechanics and implementation of D&D rules". Same with "exploration", "Role-Playing via different quest options/paths" and "crafting".
That being said, I overall like IWD2 better, but it's certainly not "superior in every way imaginable".

(And some of your other points are also not so straight forward in favour of IWD2 as you're claiming.)

 

[gunman]

You should *not* really play in ironman, the problem being the save game corruptions that can happen.
At least that's what Co8 says.

I played it with official patches only and hadn't any problems.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

sad how butthurt codex can be about toee, when it is the shittiest of troika games.

iwd2 graphics and music are superior to toee`s

 

[sser]

TOEE is actually turnbased with a well developed combat system. That alone makes it fun for me to play. Also, when have mages not trampled all over a game's difficulty? I always limit myself to one.

 

[JrK]

Also, when have mages not trampled all over a game's difficulty? I always limit myself to one.

That's a well known issue for the 3.0-3.5-PF ruleset.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

First of all you guys need to differentiate between "could be fun tactical" and "actually fun" combat.

Because TOEE is exactly that - a "could be fun". Ye, it implements all the nice stuff very well, and character progression is fun, but be fucking honest the gameplay is shit. No strategy is needed at any point, even with Co8. Its too easy. The most fun is moathouse, because its challenging and varied.

I am 100% with OP about IWD2 on TOEE engine, i thought about it while playing IWD2 and it would be awesome. IWD had atleast nice encounters and a pretty solid adventurous journey.

EDIT: and KoTC actually tops them both if you're not a graphic whore.

 

[Ebonsword]

You should *not* really play in ironman, the problem being the save game corruptions that can happen.
At least that's what Co8 says.

That just makes playing in Ironman even *more* hardcore.

 

[Cynic]

I'm only at level one of the temple, and I just hit level 6. It's very easy so far, but since there's only bs undead, bugbears and goblins so far, I'm guessing it gets harder. One thing I thought was weird was on the entry level, all the way into the north west corner of the map, there was a throne and to the right of this, a locked door. I picked the lock to the door and opened it, but no path was opened, I couldn't go through it. Is this a bug?

I stand by this engine being the greatest crpg engine created.

 

[Roguey]

Things don't get interesting again until level 3. I really recommend using all the robes you find in the chests in the entrace to avoid as many boring encouters as you can. Plus it allows you to do some faction quests.

That door doesn't lead anywhere and there are a lot of sealed doors you'll find later on that you can't open. Their purpose is to keep Zuggy Sporedust locked in.

 

[The Wizard]

i'd do zuggtmoy, just saying.

iwd2 graphics and music are superior to toee`s

music maybe.

character sprites and almost everything else, though better than in bg2, was shit. this is a fact.

 

[Jaesun]

iwd2 graphics and music are superior to toee`s

music maybe.

No.

 

[Cynic]

iwd2 graphics and music are superior to toee`s

music maybe.

No.

 

[Cynic]

Things don't get interesting again until level 3. I really recommend using all the robes you find in the chests in the entrace to avoid as many boring encouters as you can. Plus it allows you to do some faction quests.

That door doesn't lead anywhere and there are a lot of sealed doors you'll find later on that you can't open. Their purpose is to keep Zuggy Sporedust locked in.

Oh right so wearing the robes lets you avoid bs fights? I just freed some orcs and some slave women, I only gave them 10G though and they called me cheap. I should have murdered them.

Anyway the Orcs joined me after that. I'm thinking of kicking Spugnoir out, the game is far too easy with 2 wizards. If you kick him out, can you pick him up again later and his character sheet is saved?