Top Codex JRPGs

[Morality Games]

Didn't we have an unofficial list at one point? I've been trying to find it for months but all my search results refer to Felipepe's top 70 RPGs.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Didn't we have an unofficial list at one point? I've been trying to find it for months but all my search results refer to Felipepe's top 70 RPGs.

There was this Top 10 list (scroll down to the console part): http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8869 There were also a couple of attempts to make a "Vote for your favorite JRPGs" thread but those never got enough people to vote to be meaningful. Also, everyone is always voting for FF6 and Chrono Trigger; it's so boring it hurts.

If we could get enough people to vote to get a Top 50 instead of merely a Top 10 list, it could be more interesting.

 

[Haraldur]

I dropped FF6 when I got to the flying island. Walk -- random enounter -- walk -- random encounter -- juvenile exposition -- walk -- boss battle -- character switch -- reequip everyone -- walk -- random encounter. Does the story improve significantly later? Is there some way to make the combat interesting? So far, FF6 is the only time the Codex's advice has failed me.

I would like a decent JRPG list -- I refuse to believe that FF6 is as good as it gets (I think Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger are better, Disgaea too, if it counts). Perhaps it would be better with a list of JRPGs provided, a rating system out of 5 (rating systems out of 10 tend to get results clustering around 8 -- boring) and a Bayesian average. That way people's memories may trigger better.

 

[Siveon]

We should just pull the Top 70 poll but in weeb format. If it's in, it's by public vote. Having a pre-built list is a load of crap. What if my favorite JRPG is niche-fan-translated game #7?

 

[Crooked Bee]

We should just pull the Top 70 poll but in weeb format. If it's in, it's by public vote.

Like I said, there just weren't enough JRPG fans on the Codex to pull something like that off previously. Not sure there'd be now either.

 

[eric__s]

For the record, it's Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne.

 

[Siveon]

Like I said, there just weren't enough JRPG fans on the Codex to pull something like that off previously. Not sure there'd be now either.

Well no, not in the same scale surely, but I think it's at least worth a shot to get a pitiful top 20 or 30.

 

[spekkio]

If we exclude japtactical games (FFT, Disgaea, Front Mission), dungeon crawlers (SMT, NDS games) and action games (Ys) and stick to dialogue clickfests + ATB clickfests... Then what's even the point?

The only good ones will be games with "atypical" combat (Grandia, Lufia 2) and / or lulzy characters (Shadow Hearts).

Everything else was either always shit (Final Fantasy, except maybe 2-3 games) or went to shit (Tales of..., Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile, Wild Arms, Suikoden).

:edge:

 

[TripJack]

it's so boring it hurts

jrpgs in a nutshell

 

[Damned Registrations]

I dropped FF6 when I got to the flying island. Walk -- random enounter -- walk -- random encounter -- juvenile exposition -- walk -- boss battle -- character switch -- reequip everyone -- walk -- random encounter. Does the story improve significantly later? Is there some way to make the combat interesting? So far, FF6 is the only time the Codex's advice has failed me.

I would like a decent JRPG list -- I refuse to believe that FF6 is as good as it gets (I think Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger are better, Disgaea too, if it counts). Perhaps it would be better with a list of JRPGs provided, a rating system out of 5 (rating systems out of 10 tend to get results clustering around 8 -- boring) and a Bayesian average. That way people's memories may trigger better.

Haha, you stopped at exactly the wrong point. Immediately after the flying island, the game changes significantly, and becomes essentially an open world, with a non linear series of side quests (well ok not technically immediately, there's like 2 mandatory ones first, but they're quite short.)
That said, the combat never gets very good, the game is simply scaled to be too easy if you've any experience with rpgs at all and know to hit the fire monster with ice, etc. The tower of magic is probably the only decent challenge, that and maybe some of the dragons if you do them early enough. And the story is pretty trite fantasy cliche stuff, though I did find the characters being fleshed out in the second half of the game more interesting than the world being fleshed out in the first half. All around though, this game coasts by on a lot of nostaliga in people's eyes. Chrono Trigger was indeed much better.

SMT: Nocturne is the top shelf stuff for sure (Combat is excellent), and SaGa Frontier is another of my favourites (I recommend starting with Blue or Riki, they allow for a lot of exploration but have simple plotlines to follow, other characters tend to either get railroaded a lot or can be easy to get stuck and not know how to progress due to lack of familiarity with the game.) FFT is also great stuff if you liked Disgaea, Tactics Ogre is good as well, though with worse combat.

 

[Tehdagah]

SMT: Nocturne is the top shelf stuff for sure (Combat is excellent)

What makes the combat so good?

I didn't played the game yet.

 

[Damned Registrations]

It's a combination of very refined traditional jrpg aspects (elemental weaknesses, status effects, stat buffs and debuffs, well balanced and with some decent difficulty), along with the tweak of having turns in each 'phase' of combat be added or subtracted by use of those weaknesses. So hitting the fire enemy with ice will grant you a bonus turn. If that ice attack happens to freeze the enemy as well, a physical attack will automatically score a crit, which will give a bonus turn as well. But if your attack is evaded, or the enemy were immune to ice, you'd lose a turn instead. The other part that makes the combat more interesting is that your party is highly customizable, with your main character having a simplified sort of equipment or class change sort of system, and the rest of your party being a rather complicated and interesting system of recruiting enemies and modifiying them by fusing them together. The end result is quite engaging.

 

[Kem0sabe]

From the top of my head, and only on this or last gen consoles...

Demon souls
Dark souls series
Dragons dogma
Ni no kuni
Valkyria chronicles
Tales of graces
Eternal sonata
Nier
Resonance of fate

Played them mostly on my ps3 to varying degrees of fun, top 3 were best

 

[Haraldur]

FFT is also great stuff if you liked Disgaea, Tactics Ogre is good as well, though with worse combat.

I have got FFT: Complete, which gives the PS1 version the PSP translation -- I look forward to it as I like old-fashioned and/or "interesting" prose. However, I have read that the original Japanese version was harder. Would increased difficulty be a good thing for the first play-through? Would it be worth the bother of combining multiple ROM-hacks?

Regarding FF6: I must say that I much prefer it when a game starts out in a reasonably open way and then becomes linear (VTMB, PST) than something linear which becomes "open", probably in a rather superficial way (FF10 has this, a bit, and so, it seems, has FF6). I expect that I cannot cogently justify this, beyond saying that it is better for a game to start well and then decline than for it to start badly and then become good half-way through, after 10 to 20 hours of play -- after all, in the former case I can, at worst, bail after having done the good stuff, while in the latter I have to endure the crap before getting the gold.

Nostalgia, you say. Why does this game have nostalgia? I am aware of FF7 being driveled about everywhere and being important for the PS1 (zzzzzzzz), but for FF6 I have no idea. But then, the only dedicated games machine I have ever owned is a 1989 GameBoy (Pokemon, Tetris, Super MArio Land 2, that is all), so the whole console scene is alien to me.

 

[Ninjerk]

I have got FFT: Complete, which gives the PS1 version the PSP translation -- I look forward to it as I like old-fashioned and/or "interesting" prose. However, I have read that the original Japanese version was harder. Would increased difficulty be a good thing for the first play-through? Would it be worth the bother of combining multiple ROM-hacks?

Regarding FF6: I must say that I much prefer it when a game starts out in a reasonably open way and then becomes linear (VTMB, PST) than something linear which becomes "open", probably in a rather superficial way (FF10 has this, a bit, and so, it seems, has FF6). I expect that I cannot cogently justify this, beyond saying that it is better for a game to start well and then decline than for it to start badly and then become good half-way through, after 10 to 20 hours of play -- after all, in the former case I can, at worst, bail after having done the good stuff, while in the latter I have to endure the crap before getting the gold.

Nostalgia, you say. Why does this game have nostalgia? I am aware of FF7 being driveled about everywhere and being important for the PS1 (zzzzzzzz), but for FF6 I have no idea. But then, the only dedicated games machine I have ever owned is a 1989 GameBoy (Pokemon, Tetris, Super MArio Land 2, that is all), so the whole console scene is alien to me.

FFT trivializes itself by giving you hilariously overpowered characters.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

I dropped FF6 when I got to the flying island. Walk -- random enounter -- walk -- random encounter -- juvenile exposition -- walk -- boss battle -- character switch -- reequip everyone -- walk -- random encounter. Does the story improve significantly later? Is there some way to make the combat interesting? So far, FF6 is the only time the Codex's advice has failed me.

I would like a decent JRPG list -- I refuse to believe that FF6 is as good as it gets (I think Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger are better, Disgaea too, if it counts). Perhaps it would be better with a list of JRPGs provided, a rating system out of 5 (rating systems out of 10 tend to get results clustering around 8 -- boring) and a Bayesian average. That way people's memories may trigger better.

Spoiler

Actually you are were the story begins to get cool. Kefka manages to steal the power from the Emperor, kill him, wreck the whole world and becomes the supreme leader where 90% of the planet is destroyed/killed/etc. This is one of the reason why I liked this game so much : even if you kill the final boss, he still manages to destroy everything before you get to him hours of gameplay after that.

As far as encounter goes, that's why I love Mog: you can equip him some shit that prevent random encounter.

 

[Whisky]

I dropped FF6 when I got to the flying island. Walk -- random enounter -- walk -- random encounter -- juvenile exposition -- walk -- boss battle -- character switch -- reequip everyone -- walk -- random encounter. Does the story improve significantly later? Is there some way to make the combat interesting? So far, FF6 is the only time the Codex's advice has failed me.

I would like a decent JRPG list -- I refuse to believe that FF6 is as good as it gets (I think Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger are better, Disgaea too, if it counts). Perhaps it would be better with a list of JRPGs provided, a rating system out of 5 (rating systems out of 10 tend to get results clustering around 8 -- boring) and a Bayesian average. That way people's memories may trigger better.

 

[No Great Name]

Golden Sun is the poster boy for meaningless dialogue options in a JRPG. The story was pretty average and the combat was incredibly repetitive. I'd put FF6 above Golden Sun any day.

 

[yes plz]

Golden Sun is like... the blandest, most generic JRPG series I can think of.

Makes sense that it's popular.

 

[Siveon]

I always got the impression that Golden Sun was just average and everyone else was fucking with me. I know there's puzzles or whatever but didn't other games like Wild Arms or Lufia 2 (correct me if I'm wrong) pull that shtick off way better?

Plus the graphics are just, off.

Speaking of which...

Strangely similar.

 

[Haraldur]

Whisky No Great Name yes plz

Golden Sun had a number of good points over FF6:
1. Decent art and graphics (especially in battle) and pretty good music. In FF6 the music was good, but the art was meh. Drab.
2. Properly turn-based, no active-time-battle silliness that both FF6 and Chrono Trigger have. Often, this meant that battles were over more quickly, as I did not have to wait for my characters' bars to fill up. Less waiting, more fun. The random encounters in Golden Sun were better than the ones in FF6, and both had a lot of them.
3. A complex class system based upon the distribution of "djinn" -- while I never really got into that (I just piled the "djinn" of a certain "element" onto a character that naturally favoured the same "element"), there evidently was plenty of chance to mess around with the (many) possible options, providing different abilities to the characters. What does FF6 have? Espers, which I did not find particularly interesting (tedious, more like: reallocating them every few battles to give everyone an equal distribution of power), a silly QTE system for Sabin, a waiting system for Cyan... oh, and special items required if you want to move at more than a snail's pace.
4. Spells that could be used for puzzle-solving outside of battle (turn a puddle into an ice-column, grow a plant into a vine for wall-climbing or lift/pull/push a block). I really like this, I wish more (J/C)RPGs had it. Some areas or treasures were inaccessible unless one had the right spell(s) (this may be determined by the classes chosen with the class system described above) and could solve the (often simple) puzzles. In FF6, spells did nothing outside of battle and I can recall few instances in other games where they did (in-dialogue spell-use, as in PST, does not count) other than "unlock chests/doors" spells. I have hopes that Divinity: Original Sin has non-combat spell-use, am I right?
5. I repeat: Golden Sun has puzzle-solving! Granted, it is nothing particularly involving, but it is better than simply walking around the town/world-map (really slowly) as in FF6.
6. Golden Sun has more stuff to loot from chests, barrels, boxes etc.. Most rooms would have something to loot. FF6 felt really empty by comparison -- most rooms, it seemed, were purely decorative. It is a small thing, I know.
7. Golden Sun has more interesting environments than FF6. It is a bit of a theme park, but in the first game you spend a while walking around on the branches of a sapient tree (whom you must defeat, later) -- how cool is that? It also has a desert, an "arctic" area, towers, a gladiatorial arena, a flooded town and towns based on various Earth-cultures (Chinese, Indian, African (including being inside a god-statue!)). What does FF6 have? OK, the subterranean castle was cool, and the airship, but most of the towns were difficult to distinguish from each other -- they mostly looked the same. It does not help that some of the more interesting areas -- the subterranean castle, the factory, the airship, the flying island -- all looked rather drab.

Golden Sun is less bland than FF6.

Golden Sun is better than Final Fantasy 6 in every way.

I do not remember FF6 having any meaningful dialogue options, while the Golden Sun ones were, at least, quick and ignorable. Combit in Golden Sun was no more repetetive than that in FF6, and required no QTEs.

 

[eric__s]

You know what's sad? The same people who made Golden Sun also made Shining Force.

 

[Orion]

FF6 had the best characters and good music/graphics. The gameplay was broken and pretty bland. From a gameplay perspective every character ends up pretty much the same.

I'd say FF5 has the best gameplay of the series, especially if you do some random runs so you get to try fun job combinations. Pretty much every boss in FF5 has fun gimmicks you can exploit or that will require strategy if you don't level and are limited in your job options. You have to play it with an emulator with Fast Forward and you have to skip almost all the random battles though... Otherwise it's tedious and unchallenging.

 

[Siveon]

You know what's sad? The same people who made Golden Sun also made Shining Force.

Ouch. It does explain why the combat graphics are still decent though.

I say decent, but the latter does still look a little off.

 

[Whisky]

You know what's sad? The same people who made Golden Sun also made Shining Force.

They had already declined with far, far worse games before that though.

Or at least a far, far worse game.

Spoiler

At least the world map theme was pretty good.

I always got the impression that Golden Sun was just average and everyone else was fucking with me.

I always saw it as something JRPG starved Nintendo fans who got blockaded by the migration of JRPG producers to CD consoles enjoyed because they had nothing else.