Game News Torment Kickstarter media blitz begins: Campaign to launch on March 6th, Chris Avellone endorses

[Brother None]

Sloppy because they should have really nailed these things down before starting the kickstarter and leaving such choices to polls for "fans" seems retarded and weak, they should already know what game they want to make. And of course potential backers should also know in order to make up their mind about pledging or not for the game. I mean sure it's the story that matters more in such a game, but combat does matter also, and if it's not such a big deal why make this mess anyway?

We know what game we want to make. The pitch is more detailed than WL2 or Eternity. But the designers are agnostic about the combat system. As long as it fulfills the required design goals, it will work, and there is more than one system that can do that. That makes it the ideal thing to engage backers in, and inXile likes engaging backers in non-core decisions. You think inXile should pick a system...just for the look of it? That's what I would consider sleazy.

...And we come to the sleazy part because this way they're trying to get funding from people that maybe wouldn't pledge if it was TB or RTwP.

Nope. If you absolutely can't stand a system, as in if the game has to have one system and can't have another to be playable for you, then don't pledge. If you can see our point that there are way more important decisions for this game, not every non-core decision and detail has to be nailed down now especially if we can engage backers in it, then by all means, join in. "Which one of these combat systems that all fulfill the goals we have set for the system should we use?" just isn't that important a decision.

Setting the goals for the combat system is more important by comparison, so perhaps you can hold off with pledging until we talk about that? I dunno man, it's your money.

For all we know they might decide to go for Diablo-style combat.

That is not one of the options.

Me, I've been arguing for turn-based or phase-based. Has my personal preference. Just a random aside.

 

[Infinitron]

...And we come to the sleazy part because this way they're trying to get funding from people that maybe wouldn't pledge if it was TB or RTwP.

Perhaps people who feel so strongly, in an ideological sense, about combat systems, shouldn't be pledging to a Torment game in the first place.

 

[Kem0sabe]

This being the spiritual successor to Torment, people expect a lot of things, so i understand that Inxile is reticent to making concrete promises and risking the ire of this or that group of pledgers, besides the claim that it will have a deep story and C&C.

But leaving too much in the air and up for discussion post funding is not a good thing in my opinion. Concrete, tangible game information is a must when i fund anything on kickstarter, and i hope they deliver on that when they launch their campaign.

I expect see some of the concerns bellow addressed eventually during their KS:

1. Size of gameworld
2. Character progression system
3. Dialogue system
4. Combat system/Magic system
5. Party size
6. 3D/2D

 

[LeStryfe79]

It should have Chrono Trigger's combat.

 

[Tigranes]

Torment may have not had good combat, but it sure as hell wasn't a storybook game. There was a lot of fun and colour to be had from the wacky items and spells, and you did fight a lot of stuff. I think Kem0sabe's list is reasonable, and I'd want to hear all of those, or at least a very good reason why they're not decided yet.

It depends on how the rest of the pitch is, but I don't know what to think about the whole 'TB/RTwP is not a huge design decision'. Isn't it?

 

[Infinitron]

Torment may have not had good combat, but it sure as hell wasn't a storybook game. There was a lot of fun and colour to be had from the wacky items and spells, and you did fight a lot of stuff. I think Kem0sabe's list is reasonable, and I'd want to hear all of those, or at least a very good reason why they're not decided yet.

It depends on how the rest of the pitch is, but I don't know what to think about the whole 'TB/RTwP is not a huge design decision'. Isn't it?

Define "huge". Huge enough in the context of a Torment game to justify boycotting it?

Especially considering the original was RTwP?

Why the fuck would you pledge to the successor of a game whose combat system you despise so much that it causes you to write off an entire game?

 

[Rake]

^ This.
If you consider Torment a storybook/game without gameplay/ragequit because lack of TB, why on earth you will pay for someone to make a similar game?
By what logic?

 

[ghostdog]

Well exactly because the original was RTwP I would prefer it to be RTwP. So yeah I would like to know, but more importantly the creators should know because they're designing the damn game and being agnostic about the combat, especially when they seem to have nailed down all other core elements, just sounds strange to me.

 

[Brother None]

It depends on how the rest of the pitch is, but I don't know what to think about the whole 'TB/RTwP is not a huge design decision'. Isn't it?

Relative to everything else? And knowing you have a set of core principles in place for it that veer away from popamole nonsense? It's not irrelevant or unimportant, it's just a good point to engage backers on, and not - to my mind - the first thing you have to show people to convince them you're making a good Torment game.

 

[Temaperacl]

Before or after they have my money?

The discussion and decision on combat will likely be post-funding.

That's a shame - I'm not interested in pledging towards a game without knowing at a high-level what the combat system would be. (Granted that if it were RTwP I probably wouldn't have been interested anyhow - I've already done my 'let's see if people can come up with a RTwP system I will actually like' pledging and don't really feel like doing that again. ). If the decision is made before the end of the KS and I get back in town in time, I'll still take another look at it.

In any case, hopefully you guys will break your goals and I can look forward to giving it a try after it is released even if I don't pledge.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Torment may have not had good combat, but it sure as hell wasn't a storybook game. There was a lot of fun and colour to be had from the wacky items and spells, and you did fight a lot of stuff. I think Kem0sabe's list is reasonable, and I'd want to hear all of those, or at least a very good reason why they're not decided yet.

It depends on how the rest of the pitch is, but I don't know what to think about the whole 'TB/RTwP is not a huge design decision'. Isn't it?

Define "huge". Huge enough in the context of a Torment game to justify boycotting it?

Especially considering the original was RTwP?

Why the fuck would you pledge to the successor of a game whose combat system you despise so much that it causes you to write off an entire game?

It's called 'imagination'. Surely you use it all the times as well. You like something, but you 'feel' and 'imagine' that with a certain number of modifications you would love it so much more. No guarantees, but hey that's life right there.

I loved Planetscape but never liked the combat. As many said before, probably because combat was not the main focus. So I often imagined how much better coud have been with TB.

In the end, people will decide to pledge or not on the bases of their expectations, and since we live in free world (well, most of us), and the developers are still deciding what to do, we can express our feelings. Me, I think I'm done with Kickstarter. I think this model-business is not providing what I was hoping for. Namely: open dialogue with fans, on time updates, no bugs, and no 'funny-games' (LoOL). So far none of the above has happened to me, so....

 

[Infinitron]

It's called 'imagination'. Surely you use it all the times as well. You like something, but you 'feel' and 'imagine' that with a certain number of modifications you would love it so much more. No guarantees, but hey that's life right there.

I loved Planetscape but never liked the combat. As many said before, probably because combat was not the main focus. So I often imagined how much better coud have been with TB.

Sure thing, but that's not what I'm talking about. You can prefer that the game be TB without thinking that's an issue worth boycotting the Kickstarter over. I mean, let's face it, if the game ends up having turn-based combat, it's probably going to be pretty casual. This ain't gonna be JA2.

Also, "Planetscape"?

 

[Tigranes]

Torment may have not had good combat, but it sure as hell wasn't a storybook game. There was a lot of fun and colour to be had from the wacky items and spells, and you did fight a lot of stuff. I think Kem0sabe's list is reasonable, and I'd want to hear all of those, or at least a very good reason why they're not decided yet.

It depends on how the rest of the pitch is, but I don't know what to think about the whole 'TB/RTwP is not a huge design decision'. Isn't it?

Define "huge". Huge enough in the context of a Torment game to justify boycotting it?

Especially considering the original was RTwP?

Why the fuck would you pledge to the successor of a game whose combat system you despise so much that it causes you to write off an entire game?

I like both TB and RTWP, so I'd be pledging either way. I just don't know how I feel about the statement that choosing the combat system is not that important in the design process for the designers. And by 'I don't know' I actually mean I don't know. Brother None's reasoning is sensible, it just seems weird, instinctively.

But yeah, I suppose what I really want to see in Torment combat is the wacky stuff in the setting translated into combat abilities / etc., and just combat that doesn't suck.

 

[Kem0sabe]

If not concrete details of their game systems what can they show us on this Kickstarter that will convince us that this will be a worthwhile backing? I mean, they have promised a good story, fair enough, if that is the core of your Kickstarter presentation, along with the interesting game world setting, then i would expect to see at least one if not a couple of short stories from the game writers to show us what they can do with the setting, or a few examples of how their dialogues are set up, or detailed character descriptions of a few locations and main characters.

It´s not enough to say "trust us" and put up some art... the ideal would be a design document, something akin to the fallout bible, describing the world in detail and what it is grounded on, but i´m not expecting that.

 

[Excidium]

It´s not enough to say "trust us" and put up some art....

The numbers say otherwise.

 

[quasimodo]

@ Brother None

I want you to make the best game you know how to make. If you think this involved RTwP I want to know ahead of time. From where I'm sitting it looks like you are just being coy so as to not piss off one camp or the other.

 

[Brother None]

Numbers be what they may, we do plan to show a lot more during this pitch and Kickstarter, in design, story, narrative concepts, possible locations, etc etc

I like both TB and RTWP, so I'd be pledging either way. I just don't know how I feel about the statement that choosing the combat system is not that important in the design process for the designers. And by 'I don't know' I actually mean I don't know. Brother None's reasoning is sensible, it just seems weird, instinctively.

I'm probably phrasing it poorly, especially since from the earliest design exchanges it was clear Kevin and the rest are pretty strongly committed to making combat a better experience than it was in PS:T. The pitch may not talk about this much, but we'll get to talking combat at some point and maybe once Kevin kind of outlines his ideas it'll seem less weird than with the way I'm phrasing it.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The numbers say otherwise.

Speaking for myself of course.

 

[Tzaero]

They really should've shown off more Wasteland 2 before this KS.

 

[hiver]

I kinda agree with Tigranes here. BN reasoning seems alright but then i wonder about combat, whetever is chosen, ... how exactly is that going to be implemented?
Its not like you can just throw combat system in and print it.
The system is just a skeleton and all of the rest of the game needs to be fused with and grafted onto it.
Classes, abilities, skills, setting specific features, items, quests, characters...

Then again they will have 9 months of pre-production alone. Which is enough time.
Should be.

If you absolutely can't stand a system, as in if the game has to have one system and can't have another to be playable for you, then don't pledge.

Perhaps people who feel so strongly, in an ideological sense, about combat systems, shouldn't be pledging to a Torment game in the first place.

If you both were working on my team PR you would get fired this instant.

This issue and the sleazy/incompetence feeling ghostdog mentioned are going to come around a lot.
Throughout the Kickstarter.

You cant just go around saying "#well dont pledge then, nyah"
Because a lot of people will just shrug and say "ok then".
That can fly for a lone case or two but it shouldnt be a regular response at all.

BN, the constructive parts of your answer are all that is needed. Just have those ready to copy paste as needed.
And count in advance you guys will be seeing this a lot.

Kem0sabe

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ide-much-more-upfront-info-during-kickstarter

 

[Robert Jarzebina]

I like

 

[mbpopolano24]

It's called 'imagination'. Surely you use it all the times as well. You like something, but you 'feel' and 'imagine' that with a certain number of modifications you would love it so much more. No guarantees, but hey that's life right there.

I loved Planetscape but never liked the combat. As many said before, probably because combat was not the main focus. So I often imagined how much better coud have been with TB.

Sure thing, but that's not what I'm talking about. You can prefer that the game be TB without thinking that's an issue worth boycotting the Kickstarter over. I mean, let's face it, if the game ends up having turn-based combat, it's probably going to be pretty casual. This ain't gonna be JA2.

Also, "Planetscape"?

LOL,you are being so retarted in pointing out a typo... It almost invalidated the good points you made. But then again, you did not read carefully MY point... I know, we are all so self-serving, it is sooo difficult to think before writing a response.

MY point is that if you feel that an aspect of a game would invalidate the overall experience, then you are fucking free to say so. I guess people reading your post will have enough brain power to make up their own mind, don't you?

And I am sure that you can scout around and find many other typos of mine and or otherwise, if so inclined.

 

[Tigranes]

Numbers be what they may, we do plan to show a lot more during this pitch and Kickstarter, in design, story, narrative concepts, possible locations, etc etc

I like both TB and RTWP, so I'd be pledging either way. I just don't know how I feel about the statement that choosing the combat system is not that important in the design process for the designers. And by 'I don't know' I actually mean I don't know. Brother None's reasoning is sensible, it just seems weird, instinctively.

I'm probably phrasing it poorly, especially since from the earliest design exchanges it was clear Kevin and the rest are pretty strongly committed to making combat a better experience than it was in PS:T. The pitch may not talk about this much, but we'll get to talking combat at some point and maybe once Kevin kind of outlines his ideas it'll seem less weird than with the way I'm phrasing it.

Yep. Obviously, the real judgment is to be made on what is communicated during the KS period, rather than bits and pieces right now. I already know pretty much what tier I will pledge for (i.e. what I can do without skipping food), so I'm pretty relaxed about seeing how that pans out.

I think for me the big big thing is the painted backgrounds, actually. I'm confident the writing and setting will be top notch and that the dialogue system won't be fubared with, but a Torment game looking like the W2 pitch video would be the pits. Ugly like hell, and that bothers me a lot more for Torment than it would for W2.

Edit: OK, hiver agrees with me, so screw it. Ignore everything I said

 

[mbpopolano24]

WOW, hiver's making some sense today. Although looking for PR shit in the Codex is an oxymoron. So, then again he did not, as usual.

 

[Diablo169]

Awsome to see the campaign get so much publicity, I hope this means a good kickstarter launch. As for the whole RTWP vs Turnbased arguement. Why not just do it like Arcanum but refine it a bit more. let people choose if they want shitty real time or the more tactical turn based system in the options menu.