Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #5: Monte Cook Explains It All

[Irxy]

So the options, according to you, are:
A) piss off biodrones + be a jerk
B) have romances?

Oh, I never said romances should be there, its up to the devs and how they envision characters we don't know anything about yet.
I say that asking to exclude romances is just as stupid as asking to include them.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

Were not all the companions codepedent? Wasn't one of the themes of Torment that the nameless one draws people to him and uses them?

An in-game justification doesn't make it any less problematic.

 

[hiver]

this morning is full of lulz.

You are just brainwashed by bioware.[/QUOTE]

Romance ey?

• The TRUE RomanceTM, ey?

Have you not read this very page, the posts above? How stupid are you really? Romance is a major part of life?
In what Disney movie? Is it that romance where you fall in love with a hot chick and then proclaim your love to her and then she is yours FOEVAH? and five minutes later she is squealing while being pounded by a hairy orangutang behind a shed?
Is it the romance where you treat the girl nicely and respectfully and she runs away from you? is it that ROMANCE when you meet the love of your life and she tells you how that other guy was a total jerk and you are so awesome and you will be happy foevah and then half a year later youre another guy who was a total jerk and she is another bitch you wont ever speak to again? Or the bitch youre looking for when youre driving a car hoping you will see her crossing the road? Or the one where she forces you to pay alimony for the rest of your life after she takes half of everything in divorce? Or the one where you come home drunk and angry because all the young chicks laugh at you and then you kick the living shit out of that bag?
Or is it the one where you kind of fall and stick your dick into another young sexy girl by accident every few days?
And then she starts calling you on the home phone and talking to your wife?

No, of course not. Thats not Romance!

Literature? Really? You mean that medium that is completely linear and unchangeable whatever you think about any part of it and that you can only read through?
Where romances are all shiny and happy? And you have none of it because youre not fucking reading about yourself.

Are you saying you dont want every NPC to be romancable? Then which one would it be? And why not that other one? Who chooses which one? You?
Why not me? How about we vote?

And what about gay people huh, HUH? Do you have anything against gay people HUH?

And whats going to be happening in these romances of yours? Are we just to express our undying love nd stare into each others eyes untill there is GAME OVER on the screen?
Any sub quests? Missions? C&C? Is she always going to agree with your choices in some quest? What if she threatens to leave you after you decide to slaughter some village?
Or steal, or chose the wrong haircut, or wear feminized clothes, or dont wear feminized clothes? Or have a beard? Or dont have it?

Am i not going to be able to leave that bitch and find my true love?

Because this one is obviously not it, man.

So who are you to force me to stay with this WOMAN and spend our lives in misery?

And children, what about the children!! DOES ANYONE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDRENN?!?!

Meaningful friendships, even feelings of affection, will be possible, but relationships of the flesh would be inconsistent with our narrative.

No in-game shagging is good news, but the biological desire to have children could actually fit into "why does one life matter" theme of the game.

dear lord... another immaculate conception

 

[Monty]

Someone should get Hiver to write a character in Torment.

 

[Avantre]

Someone should get Hiver to write a character in Torment.

Preferably one that is mute.

 

[Irxy]

They should explore other aspects of romances.
Being friendzoned, being drugged and robbed, falling in love and discovering she's a tranny, getting her preggers and the baby being of a different race than the PC, getting STDiseased... so many options that can be explored.

Sarcasm aside, why not? Relationships are fun to play when they are complex and different. So far the majority of rpgs have them as a straightforward progression to a variety of friendship or idealistic love, and often penalizes gameplay-wise for not doing so. Also, reactivity. I'm not interested in bioware-style romances, but I'd like see a romance not done for the sole sake of fan-service, but out of an actual creative vision by a good writer (don't mean Torment, but in general).

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

Irxy: It's a question of terminology. There are probably very few people who are radically opposed to any sort of thematic exploration of love and relationships, especially in a story-centric RPG, but the term "romance" in this particular context has long since been hijacked by Bioware. To the vast majority of its advocates and opponents it now stands for the mechanical fan-service of the Bioware formula (at least X/2 out of X recruitable NPCs in any given game are expected to be "romanceable"; these characters are then designed almost solely so as to ingratiate themselves with the identifiable major groups of the romance consumer demophraphic) and, by extension, its notoriously horrible implementation (inane writing; nonsensical gift giving mini-games; gratuitous cut scenes done in the best tradition of sexploitation cinema). Regardless of the original meaning of the word, whenever you bring up "romance" in RPGs now, the connotation is there. Add to this the fear of "give a BSN denizen an inch and they'll take a mile" and the "absolutely no romance" position becomes very understandable.

 

[Irxy]

In what Disney movie? Is it that romance where you fall in love with a hot chick and then proclaim your love to her and then she is yours FOEVAH? and five minutes later she is squealing while being pounded by a hairy orangutang behind a shed?
Is it the romance where you treat the girl nicely and respectfully and she runs away from you? is it that ROMANCE when you meet the love of your life and she tells you how that other guy was a total jerk and you are so awesome and you will be happy foevah and then half a year later youre another guy who was a total jerk and she is another bitch you wont ever speak to again? Or the bitch youre looking for when youre driving a car hoping you will see her crossing the road? Or the one where she forces you to pay alimony for the rest of your life after she takes half of everything in divorce? Or the one where you come home drunk and angry because all the young chicks laugh at you and then you kick the living shit out of that bag?
Or is it the one where you kind of fall and stick your dick into another young sexy girl by accident every few days?
And then she starts calling you on the home phone and talking to your wife?

I guess its hard not to project your personal experiences, but maybe you'll find your other half at some point and start to believe in love once again. Or not.
But yeah, that's what you often get for a romance, aka intimate relationships, in everyday life. Fiction usually explores something less trivial of course, for obvious reasons.

No, of course not. Thats not Romance!

Then what is?

 

[hiver]

Going for the cheap "oh those are your personal projections, ooooh!" because you have no other answer. To any of it.

Then what is?

That is what you were supposed to answer, moron.

Sarcasm aside, why not? Relationships are fun to play when they are complex and different. So far the majority of rpgs have them as a straightforward progression to a variety of friendship or idealistic love, and often penalizes gameplay-wise for not doing so. Also, reactivity. I'm not interested in bioware-style romances, but I'd like see a romance not done for the sole sake of fan-service,

Who the fuck is going to design all of that content to support all of those options you imagine in that brain of yours?

-edit-
im not really that evil ... where the hell is my angel smiley?

 

[Helly]

snip

Hivery as fuck

 

[hiver]

Someone should get Hiver to write a character in Torment.

Theoretically i could maybe...just maybe... write something that could be ...alright.

But as sure as hell it wouldnt look like my angry posts here. At all.
This is just what codex makes of me.

 

[MasPingon]

They should explore other aspects of romances.
Being friendzoned, being drugged and robbed, falling in love and discovering she's a tranny, getting her preggers and the baby being of a different race than the PC, getting STDiseased... so many options that can be explored.

Sarcasm aside, why not? Relationships are fun to play when they are complex and different. So far the majority of rpgs have them as a straightforward progression to a variety of friendship or idealistic love, and often penalizes gameplay-wise for not doing so. Also, reactivity. I'm not interested in bioware-style romances, but I'd like see a romance not done for the sole sake of fan-service, but out of an actual creative vision by a good writer (don't mean Torment, but in general).

Dude, in case you didn't notice - we are talking about Torment here. If you want to meet a nice girl / tranny you are free to do so in other games, maybe even try to kickstart one.

 

[Globbi]

Who the fuck is going to design all of that content to support all of those options you imagine in that retarded stupid brain of yours?

No one has to support all those options. Only options that need to be supported are the ones writers want for their characters. Sometimes it will be only 1 option for certain character, sometimes more. I agree with this:

Oh, I never said romances should be there, its up to the devs and how they envision characters we don't know anything about yet.
I say that asking to exclude romances is just as stupid as asking to include them.

 

[Krash]

For a place that doesn't care much for romances, codex sure loves to talk about them!

 

[MasPingon]

I agree with this:

Oh, I never said romances should be there, its up to the devs and how they envision characters we don't know anything about yet.
I say that asking to exclude romances is just as stupid as asking to include them.

This thread has now officially gone beyond retardiation

 

[hiver]

Who the fuck is going to design all of that content to support all of those options you imagine in that retarded stupid brain of yours?

No one has to support all those options.

Anything that is in the game requires resources to be spent on it. Money and time.
The more options there is - the more you have to spend.

And then we have to ask ourselves - what is this game going to be about?

Only options that need to be supported are the ones writers want for their characters. Sometimes it will be only 1 option for certain character, sometimes more.

We are not talking about what the devs want to put in there.

We are talking about crazy, unrealistic multitude of options some "people" imagine should be in the game.

 

[norolim]

[...]Have you not read this very page, the posts above? How stupid are you really? Romance is a major part of life?
In what Disney movie? Is it that romance where you fall in love with a hot chick and then proclaim your love to her and then she is yours FOEVAH? and five minutes later she is squealing while being pounded by a hairy orangutang behind a shed?
Is it the romance where you treat the girl nicely and respectfully and she runs away from you? is it that ROMANCE when you meet the love of your life and she tells you how that other guy was a total jerk and you are so awesome and you will be happy foevah and then half a year later youre another guy who was a total jerk and she is another bitch you wont ever speak to again? Or the bitch youre looking for when youre driving a car hoping you will see her crossing the road? Or the one where she forces you to pay alimony for the rest of your life after she takes half of everything in divorce? Or the one where you come home drunk and angry because all the young chicks laugh at you and then you kick the living shit out of that bag?
Or is it the one where you kind of fall and stick your dick into another young sexy girl by accident every few days?
And then she starts calling you on the home phone and talking to your wife?[...]

Man, a lot of bad shit happened to you.
Let's just drop this romance topic now, shall we? I'm avoiding the comments section on the Numenera Kicstarter page, because I don't feel like reading about romances every two lines. I wouldn't like to have to avoid Codex for the same reason.

 

[hiver]

Nah, thats not mine, except not talking to some exes, which everyone have. And one or two disappearing because i treated them nicely, but now are looking hopefully for a hi or hello as my gaze goes through them as i pass by leaving microscopic cracks in the which 99% of us have in journals too.

Anyway, yeah... best left to the devs. They atleast get money for it.

 

[Kirtai]

dear lord... another immaculate conception

Given the level of tech in the setting that's probably totally unremarkable

 

[kaizoku]

Meaningful friendships, even feelings of affection, will be possible, but relationships of the flesh would be inconsistent with our narrative.

No in-game shagging is good news, but the biological desire to have children could actually fit into "why does one life matter" theme of the game.

So abortion it is.

C&C man... C&C...

 

[hiver]

dear lord... another immaculate conception

Given the level of tech in the setting that's probably totally unremarkable

Yeah, it probably happening automatically. Even if you are a man. Level five - bing! You got pregnant!

/
I just read that as "meaningless friendships... wait... what the..."

 

[Scruffy]

haven't read that book of elves, is it so bad that he has to apologize for it?

Parts of it were quite bad, making elves seem like a much superior race, though you could minimize some of the tweaks. For instance, I think elves only had to meditate for an hour instead of sleeping 8 hours like a human. This meant that when the party set-up a watch they would let the elf 'rest' for a slight bit, then all go to sleep while he kept watch the rest of the night. Also I believe there were some advantages elves gained while in a forest, whether with stealth or tracking or limited communicating with animals. There were other things too, connected to their long-living age and connection to magic. These were little things, but when put together could make the elf player characters stick out more and make the rest of the players feel like they were relegated to sidekick status.

I don't have time to read this, but check a Let's Read on it here: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?626446-Let-s-Read-The-Complete-Book-of-Elves

thanks for the link, put it in my links to read
and while i understand the imbalance from a player's viewpoint, aren't elves supposed to be a bit as described? Anyway, just curious.



edit
that forum has his own guy who signs every single post and reply, a la qwinn

this made me sad for some reason

 

[sea]

Sounds great. I would like to see where things go mechanically but all the details about setting and story and characters so far have me pretty stoked.

 

[Black]

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1649335412

 

[kaizoku]

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1649335412

Mother Russia ?