Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Pre-Release Thread [ALPHA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Well, not necessarily. I don't know the details of how exactly the 2D scenery is produced, but I imagine that after the modelling phase it doesn't look nearly as good as the final art. It is through artists' touch up on the pre-rendered image that the final look is achieved. And this, I think, is less time consuming and costly, when considering that in case of 3D all the diversity and detail has to be achieved in the engine and detailed elements have to be placed in the environment manually and must look good from many directions (camera can usually be rotated in 3D). But, if you know more about the process, feel free to prove me wrong. I'd be glad to learn sth new about it.

That's my point. In a top-down game the camera can't be rotated very much. You can't go into over the shoulder mode and look at things up close, from the side, etc. Making a good looking 3D environment under that constraint is cheap.

 

[norolim]

To illustrate my point about raw prerendered looking meh before touch up, here is a familiar example:

Spoiler

Have a look at the last 2 images. The raw-prerendered one doesn't look nearly as good as the last one.

That's my point. In a top-down game the camera can't be rotated very much. You can't go into over the shoulder mode and look at things up close, from the side, etc. Making a good looking 3D environment under that constraint is cheap.

I see your point. I'm still not entirely convinced though, because I believe that you can't just cut corners in 3D, only because the scenery will be viewed from a distance. With today's resolutions I think you still have to do a fairly good job with your 3D isometric environment. But of course costs of doing 3D iso will be much lower than in case of over the shoulder...will it be lower than 2D pre-rendered? I'm not sure, but you may be right.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/CMcComb

Anti post-modernism? Lyric Suite approved.

 

[Aeschylus]

Anti post-modernism? Lyric Suite approved.

Approved by anyone with half a brain.

He gives good answers. It's nice to have someone talking about philosophy in games who knows that "Beyond Good and Evil" isn't just a video game.

 

[Infinitron]

Yo, TB fans! It's time to stand up and be counted! https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ggestions/3743599-make-the-combat-turn-based-

 

[General Maxson]

Yo, TB fans! It's time to stand up and be counted! https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...ggestions/3743599-make-the-combat-turn-based-

Gave it 3 votes. Can I give more? :D

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

CMcC - Harrison's Viriconium stories are worth putting on your reading list, if they aren't already. To me, they're the best match for the tone that I'm imagining Torment will have among the various dying earth style settings.

Re Torment appropriate philosophers: Schopenhauer is the shit. What is one life worth when tearing away the Veil of Maia reveals that all of existence is unitary and continuously eating itself alive? Tough to say!

Also, are you dissing Kant just to be edgy?

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

3 votes from me as well.

 

[Infinitron]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...-pants-on-head-drown-in-the-rain-2-2-kumquat-

Planescape Torment is known for its involved dialogue system, nuanced characterization, and demanding its players attention. This new Torment is meant to continue that tradition, with some of the most talented writers in gaming.

Naturally, I want to see them to apply their collective intelligence to writing one of the dumbest characters in gaming. A low intelligence version of the game ala Fallout, with a PC so dumb it's a wonder he can tie his own shoes.

I want the villain to self-immolate because explaining the philosophical concepts behind hunting him to this nudnik is so frustrating, suicide is a more palatable option. I want to laugh until I'm crying, with every goofy, too stupid to live response you can think of on the table. You want to subvert the tropes PS:T helped establish? All I'm asking for a stretch goal is an opportunity to explore this one question...

What does one idiot matter?

 

[CMcC]

CMcC - Harrison's Viriconium stories are worth putting on your reading list, if they aren't already. To me, they're the best match for the tone that I'm imagining Torment will have among the various dying earth style settings.

Re Torment appropriate philosophers: Schopenhauer is the shit. What is one life worth when tearing away the Veil of Maia reveals that all of existence is unitary and continuously eating itself alive? Tough to say!

Also, are you dissing Kant just to be edgy?

Duly noted, and thanks for the recommendation. I'll pick up Viriconium stuff today; I have to admit I haven't read that.

It's been a long time since I read Schopenhauer, so rather than pull something out of my ass and pretend to be better informed than I am, I'll look again. There should really be an image here for :todo:.

As for Kant: It's hard to say if I'm dissing him to be edgy. I disliked him back when I was all into Nietzsche, since Nietzsche's work was such a reaction to his. How much I actually dislike him now might be partially ingrained because of the early N influence, and I'll have to re-read Kant to give him a fair shot from a non-angry-kid perspective. Note that I legitimately prefer Hegel to Kant, if that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

 

[Lancehead]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...-pants-on-head-drown-in-the-rain-2-2-kumquat-

Planescape Torment is known for its involved dialogue system, nuanced characterization, and demanding its players attention. This new Torment is meant to continue that tradition, with some of the most talented writers in gaming.

Naturally, I want to see them to apply their collective intelligence to writing one of the dumbest characters in gaming. A low intelligence version of the game ala Fallout, with a PC so dumb it's a wonder he can tie his own shoes.

I want the villain to self-immolate because explaining the philosophical concepts behind hunting him to this nudnik is so frustrating, suicide is a more palatable option. I want to laugh until I'm crying, with every goofy, too stupid to live response you can think of on the table. You want to subvert the tropes PS:T helped establish? All I'm asking for a stretch goal is an opportunity to explore this one question...

What does one idiot matter?

Voted.

 

[CMcC]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...-pants-on-head-drown-in-the-rain-2-2-kumquat-

Planescape Torment is known for its involved dialogue system, nuanced characterization, and demanding its players attention. This new Torment is meant to continue that tradition, with some of the most talented writers in gaming.

Naturally, I want to see them to apply their collective intelligence to writing one of the dumbest characters in gaming. A low intelligence version of the game ala Fallout, with a PC so dumb it's a wonder he can tie his own shoes.

I want the villain to self-immolate because explaining the philosophical concepts behind hunting him to this nudnik is so frustrating, suicide is a more palatable option. I want to laugh until I'm crying, with every goofy, too stupid to live response you can think of on the table. You want to subvert the tropes PS:T helped establish? All I'm asking for a stretch goal is an opportunity to explore this one question...

What does one idiot matter?

Also voted.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

It's been a long time since I read Schopenhauer, so rather than pull something out of my ass and pretend to be better informed than I am, I'll look again. There should really be an image here for :todo:.

Well its been about ten years since I've read him, so obviously I have no general opposition to ass-pulls. I also don't necessarily think he's right exactly, more that he's compelling. He's kind of like Nietzsche in that his appeal is somewhat aesthetic.

As for Kant: It's hard to say if I'm dissing him to be edgy. I disliked him back when I was all into Nietzsche, since Nietzsche's work was such a reaction to his. How much I actually dislike him now might be partially ingrained because of the early N influence, and I'll have to re-read Kant to give him a fair shot from a non-angry-kid perspective. Note that I legitimately prefer Hegel to Kant, if that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

But shouldn't a Hegelian have come around to synthesis of Kant and Nietzsche by now? :rimshot:

I went through stages with Kant, first loving him because it was a freshman metaphysics course and I could only kind of understand what he was getting at, making his work a kind of rational gnosticism (something that Scopenhauer is even better at), then resenting him for what seemed to be an unnecessarily opaque way of writing that made his ideas seem more abstruse than they were, and then coming around again and appreciating him for his historical role. I think he's like Descarte, in that if I look at his work in a historical context he becomes much easier to appreciate; both were trying to lay the conceptual groundwork for modern empirical science by articulating the way in which our senses (and for Kant, the mind itself) are, at best, fundamentally limited tools for correctly perceiving reality, let alone understanding it, without the aid of other conceptual tools like science.

 

[mondblut]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...-pants-on-head-drown-in-the-rain-2-2-kumquat-

Planescape Torment is known for its involved dialogue system, nuanced characterization, and demanding its players attention. This new Torment is meant to continue that tradition, with some of the most talented writers in gaming.

Naturally, I want to see them to apply their collective intelligence to writing one of the dumbest characters in gaming. A low intelligence version of the game ala Fallout, with a PC so dumb it's a wonder he can tie his own shoes.

I want the villain to self-immolate because explaining the philosophical concepts behind hunting him to this nudnik is so frustrating, suicide is a more palatable option. I want to laugh until I'm crying, with every goofy, too stupid to live response you can think of on the table. You want to subvert the tropes PS:T helped establish? All I'm asking for a stretch goal is an opportunity to explore this one question...

What does one idiot matter?

This is the secret to understanding RPGCodex:

1. Lament the lack of another Torment for a decade.
2. When one finally appears on the horizon - troll it to death.

Codex, you never disappoint

 

[Aeschylus]

https://torment.uservoice.com/forum...-pants-on-head-drown-in-the-rain-2-2-kumquat-

Planescape Torment is known for its involved dialogue system, nuanced characterization, and demanding its players attention. This new Torment is meant to continue that tradition, with some of the most talented writers in gaming.

Naturally, I want to see them to apply their collective intelligence to writing one of the dumbest characters in gaming. A low intelligence version of the game ala Fallout, with a PC so dumb it's a wonder he can tie his own shoes.

I want the villain to self-immolate because explaining the philosophical concepts behind hunting him to this nudnik is so frustrating, suicide is a more palatable option. I want to laugh until I'm crying, with every goofy, too stupid to live response you can think of on the table. You want to subvert the tropes PS:T helped establish? All I'm asking for a stretch goal is an opportunity to explore this one question...

What does one idiot matter?

Also voted.

See, this is why I have such high hopes for this game. For Project: Eternity Josh Sawyer goes and posts extended diatribes on game design on the SA forums, but for Torment Colin McComb comes and trolls on the Codex.

p.s. I have high hopes for P:E too.

 

[hiver]

That was really nicely written suggestion. Great punch line. I was loling for several minutes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey Vault Dweller. How is Dead state coming along? I heard you guys were 'helping' out there a bit?

I think you will be pleasantly impressed with the progress.

 

[Jaesun]

Colin McComb ‏@ColinMcComb
I'm glad that nearly everyone got the joke about the #CBoEApology. For the rest, I apologize that my apology was not apologetic.

 

[Stabwound]

Anyone who got legitimately butthurt over the apology needs to go get an autism test done and/or move from mother's basement.

 

[Kirtai]

Anyone who got legitimately butthurt over the apology needs to go get an autism test done and/or move from mother's basement.

I know a couple of autistic people and even they thought it was funny. I think it's mostly the people who've had their sense of humour surgically removed and/or hyperactive self-importance glands that's the most butthurt.

 

[Jaesun]

47,599
backers

$2,601,724
pledged of $900,000 goal

 

[Cowboy Moment]

CMcC - Harrison's Viriconium stories are worth putting on your reading list, if they aren't already. To me, they're the best match for the tone that I'm imagining Torment will have among the various dying earth style settings.

Re Torment appropriate philosophers: Schopenhauer is the shit. What is one life worth when tearing away the Veil of Maia reveals that all of existence is unitary and continuously eating itself alive? Tough to say!

Also, are you dissing Kant just to be edgy?

Duly noted, and thanks for the recommendation. I'll pick up Viriconium stuff today; I have to admit I haven't read that.

Viriconium is definitely a good inspiration for what you'll be doing. Keep in mind though that Harrison is a bit of a po-mo grognard, and in some way the whole thing is intended as a deconstruction of fantasy worldbuilding - which may give you weird ideas when writing for a video game. He's a good writer though, with beautiful, evocative prose, and creates a great atmosphere of melancholy and weirdness in equal measure.

You could look into Solaris and Roadside Picnic, if you haven't already. They both deal with the fundamentally unknowable, and contain a lot of interesting ideas that could easily be adapted to a setting like Numenera. Lem's book in particular you can just treat as a reference manual on how to write about incomprehensible things without being overly vague or arbitrary, he's really good at that. They're also fairly short and to the point, unlike Viriconium.

 

[belated]

On the subject of books, if anyone's interested Colin's book Oathbreaker is actually free now on Amazon, the kindle version mind you. Stumbled across it just now.

http://www.amazon.com/Oathbreaker-Book-Knights-Tale-ebook/dp/B006IVFWWQ

 

[Brother None]

Lem's Solaris is probably my favorite sci-fi book. That's another recommendation, Colin!

I've personally been catching up and re-reading a lot of Dying Earth slash Torment inspiration books. Read Lord of Light and Canticle for Liebowitz, currently in Tales of a Dying Earth (boy, Vance is sure in love with his thesaurus. As a disciple of Orwell...hate), next up are Book of the New Sun and Viriconium.