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Warhammer Total War: Warhammer III

Minecrawler

Novice
Joined
Jun 13, 2020
Messages
47
How so?



Oh. Oh no.

And of course shitters over at the CA forums are defending this.

I haven't bought W3, but what was their justification for making all these chinese machine gunners better than the skaven?
Is it because they are all female?
 

Tyrr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,257
I never seen in 1500 hours of warhammer 2 the AI blobbing ranged units unless we were in some siege
Yes. They (mainly) did it to help the AI during sieges. I think they did the same change for Thrones of Britannia in the past.
It is a bad change for the players because they will abuse it by blobbing melee with range. Only in SP because in MP the opponent will just drop a vortex spell on your blob. But we all know CA focus its balancing on MP.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
I haven't bought W3, but what was their justification for making all these chinese machine gunners better than the skaven?
Is it because they are all female?

Cathay's Crane Gunners are marginally better than Jezzails but Cathay doesn't have a copy of Ratling guns or flamethrowers which are the real killers of a skaven ranged army (and the ratling guns also massively decrease enemy speed so you have more time to shoot). Jezzails on their own are basically for sniping siege units or lords, and Skaven also get an easily accessible snare usable against ranged units which allows Jezzails to murder stuff like dragons or otherwise stop enemy air units from running in and screwing up your ranged units, which Cathay also doesn't have. I think its fine. Overall Cathay ranged builds aren't nearly as dominant as Skaven ones.

EDIT: Crane gunners are also apparently significantly less accurate at max range than Jezzails, according to hidden calibration area stats.
 
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copebot

Learned
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
387
I haven't bought W3, but what was their justification for making all these chinese machine gunners better than the skaven?
Is it because they are all female?

Cathay's Crane Gunners are marginally better than Jezzails but Cathay doesn't have a copy of Ratling guns or flamethrowers which are the real killers of a skaven ranged army (and the ratling guns also massively decrease enemy speed so you have more time to shoot). Jezzails on their own are basically for sniping siege units or lords, and Skaven also get an easily accessible snare usable against ranged units which allows Jezzails to murder stuff like dragons or otherwise stop enemy air units from running in and screwing up your ranged units, which Cathay also doesn't have. I think its fine. Overall Cathay ranged builds aren't nearly as dominant as Skaven ones.

EDIT: Crane gunners are also apparently significantly less accurate at max range than Jezzails, according to hidden calibration area stats.
Crane gunners got a nerf this patch to reduce their penetration. Who knows what Jezzails will be like when WH3 leaves early access. I think what makes the Skaven ranged army so good is just the huge variety of units and summon abilities that they get. Plague priest summons, doomwheels, doomflayers, and the menace from below summons all ensure that the gunners don't get messed with for a long time. Cathay just doesn't have that toolkit and each of its ranged units are worse as individual units than any skaven equivalent. The Iron Hail gunners, despite the memes related to this patch, are a very niche gun unit. They CAN do very well in specific situations, but it's easy to get zero value from them just because their range is so bad.

The Celestial crossbows are just a lot more usable in a larger variety of situations. The only sleeper unit on the roster for me is the Grand Cannon, just because it's unusually accurate, fast-firing, and damaging compared to most cannons. It can absolutely annihilate cavalry, monsters, and single entities (especially ogre lords and heroes). While the rockets and the sky junk are pretty good, they're really more situational -- they're helstorms but crappier. In a perfect situation in a field battle, they're awesome, but those don't come up often.
 

tabacila

Augur
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
326
HE start positions. Only surprise is Teclis in the Southlands. CA actually moving LLs AWAY from the Lustriabowl. Color me suprised.
 

SpaceWizardz

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,049
Rakarth will probably be taking Teclis's place in the Lustriabowl since Albion is Be'lakor's.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
They are only moving lords away so they can add more LLs to the lustriabowl in DLC. It's the only thing they know how to do.

Kind of weird that Markus Wolfhart starts on the entire opposite side of the map from Nakai considering they are supposed to be opposed DLC lords but then who even cares about Nakai anymore. I guess they are technically "close" if you use the sealane thing.
 

MuckMan

Learned
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
104
They are only moving lords away so they can add more LLs to the lustriabowl in DLC. It's the only thing they know how to do.

Kind of weird that Markus Wolfhart starts on the entire opposite side of the map from Nakai considering they are supposed to be opposed DLC lords but then who even cares about Nakai anymore. I guess they are technically "close" if you use the sealane thing.
I presume that Nakai will simply spawn in your neighborhood (somewhere SW of you) like he did in ME, at least that is what happend to me last year, when I played Wulfhardt-ME-Campaign.
 

tabacila

Augur
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
326
Damn you were right. They took Teclis out, but put Alberic in the Lustriabowl. I guess someone has to carry that white man's burden and civilize those scalies :smug:.
 
Self-Ejected

underground nymph

I care not!
Patron
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
1,252
Strap Yourselves In
Maybe in a year or so I’ll pirate it (have no option anyway since butthurt brits restricted Russians from buying their gaem) along with all DLCs and give the combined map a try. I estimate a year, because fixing Kislev i.e. making it interesting to play will require a couple of good DLCs. Not to mention that combined map itself has to get a lot of work. Well, maybe a year is too optimistic.
 

zapotec

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 7, 2018
Messages
1,495
I didn't notice before, but they changed Western and Eastern Sylvania to Northern and Southern Sylvania.
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
27,819
Maybe in a year or so I’ll pirate it (have no option anyway since butthurt brits restricted Russians from buying their gaem) along with all DLCs and give the combined map a try. I estimate a year, because fixing Kislev i.e. making it interesting to play will require a couple of good DLCs. Not to mention that combined map itself has to get a lot of work. Well, maybe a year is too optimistic.
If you're LUCKY someone will crack the release version of Immortal Empires and that's it. Just like Troy. Denuvo + No interest means nobody will bother keeping it up to date.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
The cannon towers are disgusting, especially when you are Slaanesh and have zero ways to deal with them. The only reliable way to deal with the first Khorne settlements at the start of the campaign is to abuse devotee armies. Warriors of Khorne hard counter basically every Slaanesh unit in the beginning. I wanted to try out how much more powerful daemonettes became with this patch. Like I predicted, they are the only unit worth recruiting now.
 
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Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I didn't expect the WoC to get their own factions, cool. Seducing units as Sigvald makes sense. I also didn't expect Be'Lakor to be a WoC LL, I thought he'd be Daemons of Chaos like Daniel.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
Grombrindal in Naggaroth will be... interesting.

I guess a side effect of these changes will be that confederating and getting access to other LLs will be much rarer for a lot of factions.
 

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