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Incline TotalBiscuit: Have FPS gone backwards? (answer is yes)
- Thread starter Brotherman Bill
- Start date
Excidium
P. banal
I played Half-Life 2 for the first time last year. It's better than the first one but not by a large margin, never understood why people get so excited for those games either.
Excidium
P. banal
Seriously HL1 fucking blows, the weapons are shitty, the enemies have massive hp bloat and the alien levels make you want to kill yourself.
Yes, and HL2 only amplifies all that with literally no improvement whatsoever.
Excidium
P. banal
Weapons are much better in HL2. And the goons actually die with a few shots instead of standing still while soaking 30 assault rifle bullets. HL2 also didn't have alien levels thankfully, the levels were generally better too. Its main flaw is being horribly scripted but hey it's not like HL1 wasn't a horribly paced linear shooter.
tuluse
Arcane
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I enjoyed the platforming sections of Half-Life.
Which makes me think the Portal series might actually be the perfect vessel for Valve's talent.
buzz
Arcane
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- 4,234
Well, yeah. Otherwise you have waltzing simulators a la Grimrock (or DM clones in general), or you have Dead Space type of survival horror.
Some design elements are only fit for certain types of games.
Tehdagah
Arcane
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- 9,340
Or System Shock, or Deus Ex.
Aren't those poor things lobotomised, though? Makes sense in a way.
I disagree with a lot of things said about HL2 in this thread. Like I've said, I don't think it's any more story-based than any other shooter released around the same time, quite the opposite actually. The "story" it has is very primitive, serving basically no other purpose than giving you a reason for killing stuff. Almost all shooters from between 2000 and 2004 have a far bigger emphasis on story, military shooters perhaps excluded. HL2 had a cool setting, but I don't think there was any particular story that Valve tried to tell. It might be bad, it might be good, but to me it was mostly irrelevant.
While I can understand the complaints about the lengthy "interactive cutscenes", I also think the people saying that they ruined the game for them or something are complete ADD retards. The game has maybe three "cutscenes" that are longer than a minute: Kleiner's lab, Black Mesa East and the Citadel. There are games with longer loading times than those cutscenes. It is bad and heavy-handed storytelling, no doubt about it, especially compared to HL1, and the game wouldn't have needed that kind of stuff. Still, it's pretty much a non-issue.
The game has its fair share of gimmicks, but they're in general very well made, whether it's the saw blade massacre of Ravenholm or the Antlion massacre of Nova Prospekt. As far as the amount of variety goes, HL2 doesn't have many challengers in the land of corridor shooters. The actual gameplay itself is mostly unchanged from HL1: you can crouch, jump and shoot, that's it. It's a very simple and working control scheme, and the game encourages fast-paced gameplay rather than crouching behind a box or something. Too bad the game is too easy, the hardest setting feeling like medium at best. HL2's AI wasn't as ruthless as the AI in HL1, but then again, HL1's AI relied much more on heavy scripting, and some encounters played out exactly the same every time.
I also enjoy the game's weaponry. The pistol sucks, and the SMG isn't that great either (except when using the grenade launcher), but they're the weakest weapons in the game anyway. The rest? The revolver is ridiculously enjoyable, although slow. The shotgun is great, especially with the secondary fire mode which deals double damage for double fun. The crossbow kills on one hit and lets you nail people on the walls, which is always a plus. The Combine assault rifle is a bit half-assed as far as the looks and the reloading animation go, but it's accurate and effective, sounds great and has a hilarious secondary fire mode, meaning that it more than serves its purpose. The RPG is maybe too much of a situational weapon as it is (meant for killing gunships and striders, not much else), but being able to guide your own missiles still makes it fun and lets you kill people with creative ways. In general all of the weapons have their weaknesses and feel different to each other, and the balance between different weapons is really good. Having a couple of more guns, maybe some exotic ones wouldn't have hurt, but then again, there are never enough guns.
I don't really get the hate on the Gravity Gun. Okay, HL2 shows off its physics a bit too much, and the Gravity Gun can easily come off as a gimmick. Still, it's a genuinely fun and creative weapon, and being able to use almost every object in the game world as a weapon or a shield is definite incline, no matter what way you're looking at it. The only part where the Gravity Gun kind of got annoying for me was Episode One, which forced you to use it for a pretty long while before giving you your usual arsenal of weapons. In HL2 it is mostly just a weapon or a tool among others, apart from the very last hour of the game or so.
One thing HL2 suffers from is overbalancing the game by greatly limiting the amount of stuff you can carry. Only around 20 bullets for the revolver? Three clips for the assault rifle? Three rockets for the RPG when your average gunship takes four or five? As a result you don't really have the need or the ability to manage your ammo, because the game so thoroughly dictates what you can use at any particular time. I would've preferred it if the game gave you ammo more sparingly but allowed you to carry a bit more at a time, making resource management more important.
I often hate vehicle sections in shooters, but I don't really find that much to complain about HL2's boat and buggy chapters. The shooting still mostly happens on foot, the vehicles are just there to allow for faster travelling between A and B. I see no problems with that.
I think one thing HL2 lacks in comparison to HL1 are big set-pieces. HL1 has numerous parts where you face some obstacle (usually a big monster or a piece of machinery) and need to achieve multiple steps in order to proceed: flip a switch there, fix that valve there, turn on something at the other end of the level and so on, until you can push the big red button and make something cool happen. Mostly it just meant that instead of walking a single corridor, you had to go to the end of two or three different ones and then come back, but it at least got you to turn your brain on for a while and explore a bit. HL2 doesn't really have anything like that, at least on the same scale. It stays as a linear corridor throughout the entire game.
The Black Mesa facility also offered a more plausible reason for corridor-like level design. In HL2 you're usually out in the open, and it gets pretty old to see your progress once again come to a halt because of a locked wooden door. Giving you an alternative route every now and then definitely wouldn't have hurt. Still, I can't say it'd have bothered me too much when corridor-like levels had become the norm in shooters, except that in many games it was worse with scripted scenes breaking the flow of the action much more often. Both Half-Life games managed to use scripted events with a good taste in my opinion.
All in all, HL1 was probably more atmospheric, impressive and cohesive, and in my opinion it's also a great example of computer game storytelling by so effectively using the strengths of the medium instead of using big exposition dumps. HL2 tried to preserve some things about its predecessor that didn't really work as well in the different type of setting they went for. Still, it was one of the last really enjoyable shooters I've played.
While I can understand the complaints about the lengthy "interactive cutscenes", I also think the people saying that they ruined the game for them or something are complete ADD retards. The game has maybe three "cutscenes" that are longer than a minute: Kleiner's lab, Black Mesa East and the Citadel. There are games with longer loading times than those cutscenes. It is bad and heavy-handed storytelling, no doubt about it, especially compared to HL1, and the game wouldn't have needed that kind of stuff. Still, it's pretty much a non-issue.
The game has its fair share of gimmicks, but they're in general very well made, whether it's the saw blade massacre of Ravenholm or the Antlion massacre of Nova Prospekt. As far as the amount of variety goes, HL2 doesn't have many challengers in the land of corridor shooters. The actual gameplay itself is mostly unchanged from HL1: you can crouch, jump and shoot, that's it. It's a very simple and working control scheme, and the game encourages fast-paced gameplay rather than crouching behind a box or something. Too bad the game is too easy, the hardest setting feeling like medium at best. HL2's AI wasn't as ruthless as the AI in HL1, but then again, HL1's AI relied much more on heavy scripting, and some encounters played out exactly the same every time.
I also enjoy the game's weaponry. The pistol sucks, and the SMG isn't that great either (except when using the grenade launcher), but they're the weakest weapons in the game anyway. The rest? The revolver is ridiculously enjoyable, although slow. The shotgun is great, especially with the secondary fire mode which deals double damage for double fun. The crossbow kills on one hit and lets you nail people on the walls, which is always a plus. The Combine assault rifle is a bit half-assed as far as the looks and the reloading animation go, but it's accurate and effective, sounds great and has a hilarious secondary fire mode, meaning that it more than serves its purpose. The RPG is maybe too much of a situational weapon as it is (meant for killing gunships and striders, not much else), but being able to guide your own missiles still makes it fun and lets you kill people with creative ways. In general all of the weapons have their weaknesses and feel different to each other, and the balance between different weapons is really good. Having a couple of more guns, maybe some exotic ones wouldn't have hurt, but then again, there are never enough guns.
I don't really get the hate on the Gravity Gun. Okay, HL2 shows off its physics a bit too much, and the Gravity Gun can easily come off as a gimmick. Still, it's a genuinely fun and creative weapon, and being able to use almost every object in the game world as a weapon or a shield is definite incline, no matter what way you're looking at it. The only part where the Gravity Gun kind of got annoying for me was Episode One, which forced you to use it for a pretty long while before giving you your usual arsenal of weapons. In HL2 it is mostly just a weapon or a tool among others, apart from the very last hour of the game or so.
One thing HL2 suffers from is overbalancing the game by greatly limiting the amount of stuff you can carry. Only around 20 bullets for the revolver? Three clips for the assault rifle? Three rockets for the RPG when your average gunship takes four or five? As a result you don't really have the need or the ability to manage your ammo, because the game so thoroughly dictates what you can use at any particular time. I would've preferred it if the game gave you ammo more sparingly but allowed you to carry a bit more at a time, making resource management more important.
I often hate vehicle sections in shooters, but I don't really find that much to complain about HL2's boat and buggy chapters. The shooting still mostly happens on foot, the vehicles are just there to allow for faster travelling between A and B. I see no problems with that.
I think one thing HL2 lacks in comparison to HL1 are big set-pieces. HL1 has numerous parts where you face some obstacle (usually a big monster or a piece of machinery) and need to achieve multiple steps in order to proceed: flip a switch there, fix that valve there, turn on something at the other end of the level and so on, until you can push the big red button and make something cool happen. Mostly it just meant that instead of walking a single corridor, you had to go to the end of two or three different ones and then come back, but it at least got you to turn your brain on for a while and explore a bit. HL2 doesn't really have anything like that, at least on the same scale. It stays as a linear corridor throughout the entire game.
The Black Mesa facility also offered a more plausible reason for corridor-like level design. In HL2 you're usually out in the open, and it gets pretty old to see your progress once again come to a halt because of a locked wooden door. Giving you an alternative route every now and then definitely wouldn't have hurt. Still, I can't say it'd have bothered me too much when corridor-like levels had become the norm in shooters, except that in many games it was worse with scripted scenes breaking the flow of the action much more often. Both Half-Life games managed to use scripted events with a good taste in my opinion.
All in all, HL1 was probably more atmospheric, impressive and cohesive, and in my opinion it's also a great example of computer game storytelling by so effectively using the strengths of the medium instead of using big exposition dumps. HL2 tried to preserve some things about its predecessor that didn't really work as well in the different type of setting they went for. Still, it was one of the last really enjoyable shooters I've played.
Surf Solar
cannot into womynz
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 8,831
For some reason this thread reminds me of Turok 2 and how much I enjoyed it back then
If a journalist does his job correctly, he approaches information objectively. The same goes with scholars and scientists. There's value in objectivity. We can debate whether anyone can ever be truly objective, but I believe we can agree that objectivity is something worth pursuing in the aforementioned professions. We're all biased, but there's a difference between a biased journalist and a biased individual, since a journalist is expected to remain objective whereas no one cares whether a regular individual in biased or not. In the case of TB I meant to ask whether anyone thinks that he's a biased journalist, which would obviously put he's credibility to question.
DeepOcean
Arcane
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- Nov 8, 2012
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- 7,395
The fact that I didn't died of boredom half way through like in other linear shooters makes HL2 above average. I had fun until the last levels. Valve was smart enough to know that shooting things can become very repetitive unless different situations are presented to the player. The beginning is the section where there is a more heavy handed approach to the story with all that running from Combine section and it was the first time I would experiment the dreadful run without weapons from scripted death sections that plague alot of modern FPS, but it was a short section and the exposition that happens before put some context on it, at least. The boat section that comes afterwards was a bit too long for my taste but there is a constant trasition between light puzzle solving/shooting sections and driving boat sections avoiding obstacles, so it wasn't just driving a boat for hours or it would be incredible boring because I was a little bored already when it ended but it wasn't a dreadful experience. Ravenholm is gravity gun/shotgun fun time, the shotgun in HL 2 is very good and satisfying to use and sawing 4 zombies in a row never gets old. That car sections follow the same flow of the boat section and a bit too long too. the ant lion section adds an interesting mechanic of not walking in the sand and makes that gravity gun useful again. Nova Projekt was very cool in terms of level design and watching antlions and Combine fight was very satisfying.
Where HL 2 really drop the ball is on the last levels, all that fighting in the ruins with braindead NPCs companions and the whole section of the super gravity gun could be removed and it wouldn't be missed. I don't know who thought that removing all your weapon and give you only one that can slaughter whole groups of enemies was a good idea. It wasn't the game of the decade that the Doritos fans like so much to claim but it was still far away from: return to mission area or you are going to die, use this turret or the game will not continue and don't even try to get out of it, hey look to cool explosion while I take control of the camera from you, get captured on cutscene, regenerative health and etc. those are all lovely features added to the FPSs genre by CoD factory ( also called Infinity Ward), so HL 2 was hardly a linear, scripted shooter in a modern sense.
Where HL 2 really drop the ball is on the last levels, all that fighting in the ruins with braindead NPCs companions and the whole section of the super gravity gun could be removed and it wouldn't be missed. I don't know who thought that removing all your weapon and give you only one that can slaughter whole groups of enemies was a good idea. It wasn't the game of the decade that the Doritos fans like so much to claim but it was still far away from: return to mission area or you are going to die, use this turret or the game will not continue and don't even try to get out of it, hey look to cool explosion while I take control of the camera from you, get captured on cutscene, regenerative health and etc. those are all lovely features added to the FPSs genre by CoD factory ( also called Infinity Ward), so HL 2 was hardly a linear, scripted shooter in a modern sense.
buzz
Arcane
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- Apr 1, 2012
- Messages
- 4,234
Did you miss the part when I counted those out?
Those games are on a different level to shooters, to the point where most people just call them RPGs (or action RPGs) directly, me included. It's not like Deus Ex had keycard collecting, super speed and all the typical FPS tropes of the 90s.
Tehdagah
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
- Messages
- 9,340
Exactly... These games aren't shooters, but they have shooting mechanics.
In today's salebox TB called Fallout 3 a "very good game".
Why you do this to me TB... why...
Why you do this to me TB... why...
Average Manatee
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2012
- Messages
- 14,267
Does he call it "a very good game to play" or just "a very good game"?
Because it's a very good game for the purpose of being a retard detector.
Because it's a very good game for the purpose of being a retard detector.
wergle
Educated
I honestly don't care if idiots think HL-style FPSes are amazing just so long as arena shooters and Doom-style FPS games are still being made.
But they aren't.
But they aren't.
DeepOcean
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 7,395
And HL2 and HL 1 style shooters aren't made anymore too.
wergle
Educated
I dunno about that
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