Trigger the codex with a statement.

[Nortar]

So according to you a pacifist Follaut and DE both have no combat, but the former is an all-time classic, and the other in not a game at all.

Is combat in that Disco game of yours optional? Can I not initiate the combat whenever I want in Fallout?

pacifist fallout is your choice, disco furries - you have no choice at all.

So without some meta-knowledge you can't say if you play an RPG or not?

You navigated through a game (Fallout or DE) in such a way that you had no combat.
And you have no fucking clue if it was an RPG or "not a game", until you check the internet?
Okay. No more questions.

Disco Elysium could be easily changed to use D&D mechanics.

I'd like to see it.

You have not seen DE? There are stats, dice rolls and skill check.
If it used d20 mechanics, there would be no real difference in gameplay.
Also there's Esoteric Ebb in development. Looks like shit, from what I've seen, but it's almost literally D&D DE.

 

[Reinhardt]

So without some meta-knowledge you can't say if you play an RPG or not?

can you drop pacifist shit and start exploding npcs omae wa mou shindeiru-style in furries?

 

[octavius]

Disco Elysium certainly has made a huge impact, which is always a sign of a great game. Like all great art it's open for interpretation, which leads to endless debate among the experts.

 

[behold_a_man]

So without some meta-knowledge you can't say if you play an RPG or not?

Do you consider skill descriptions (indicating there is combat) and knowing the interface (allowing me to start the combat on a whim) meta-knowledge?

You navigated through a game (Fallout or DE) in such a way that you had no combat.

Is it even possible in Fallout (bar speedruns and very specific builds with ginormous luck and survival)? You will get random encounters with enemies in a normal playthrough; it's just that you can escape during combat.

Also, why do you focus on Fallout so much? It's a game whose pacing is actually dependent on encounters with enemies that can always be resolved with combat, quite like most RPGs. Don't you have anything closer to the border of standard RPG definitions?

You have not seen DE?

Of course not.

 

[Maxie]

Disco Elysium certainly has made a huge impact, which is always a sign of a great game. Like all great art it's open for interpretation, which leads to endless debate among the experts.

As a proper Marx-fearing semiotician, I do not believe we're really free to explore this software's true genius until the death of the author is achieved. Not metaphorically, I mean that Robert Kurvits should've killed xirself if xe really gave a shit about Art.

 

[Cryomancer]

you can trigger anyone

Yes, but what you think about lots of "blonde goddess" teaching your country history to millions of westerners and spreading their wisdom?

Disco Elysium certainly has made a huge impact, which is always a sign of a great game. Like all great art it's open for interpretation, which leads to endless debate among the experts.

Nope. Everyone here except one guy agrees. DE is a visual novel. Not a RPG. Not a GAME.

No gameplay = no game.

Simple as that.

 

[DehBepis]

disco elysium is a visual novel not an RPG

planescape torment is an RPG not a visual novel

planescape torment should probably have been a visual novel

you can decide which of these makes you more mad, i cant tell which one I would be more ashamed of myself for posting so I'm posting all three

 

[DehBepis]

Disco Elysium could be easily changed to use D&D mechanics.

I'd like to see it.

You have not seen DE? There are stats, dice rolls and skill check.
If it used d20 mechanics, there would be no real difference in gameplay.
Also there's Esoteric Ebb in development. Looks like shit, from what I've seen, but it's almost literally D&D DE.

i can understand where you're coming from, but I can also say that this also applies to Long Live the Queen, and other Princess Maker likes, but that calling them RPGs for that reason is kinda retarded. So I think I disagree even though I don't really have a valid argument.

The real reason Princess Maker isn't an RPG is because it's for weeaboo degen faggots

 

[Froila]

disco elysium is a visual novel not an RPG

planescape torment is an RPG not a visual novel

planescape torment should probably have been a visual novel

you can decide which of these makes you more mad, i cant tell which one I would be more ashamed of myself for posting so I'm posting all three

The Secret of Monkey Island is an adventure, but should be an RPG.

 

[DehBepis]

But there was no combat in that example of a play session.
So it was not an RPG?

Is not "combat" which determines a game. For eg, a racing game have zero combat. A soccer game have zero combat. A tetris game have zero combat. But has gameplay. Disco Elysium has no gameplay is a visual novel. Simple as that.

all of these games except arguably racing games have combat

Tetris is a real time with pause based combat simulator.

This conversation is actually triggering me. Splitting hairs over what is an RPG combined with personal fart sniffing on how smart everyone is is insufferable.

Touch grass, nerds.

How is it different from a sesssion of D&D game that just happen to not have combat, but had a lot of other skill checks?

Combat is always a option. That is the difference. If I pick a random visual novel and mod it to have some rolls and checks, will it become a game?

We're not talking about random visual novels. We're talking about DE.
You said it's not an RPG, not even a game. But DE has:
1. Character creation with different stats.
2. Skill checks.
3. Numerous chances to fail and die (it was important for you for some reason).

D&D session without combat is still an RPG for you.
But Disco Elysium, which is for all intents and purposes is a D&D session without combat, is not?
You can't eat your cake and have it too.

If I'm gonna out myself as a weeb here, I feel like there's a big difference between Kinetic Novels/visual novels with CYOA elements, and visual novels with actual stat based gameplay like Long Live the Queen, which has all of the three things you just mentioned. I would feel comfortable calling Long Live the Queen a game, rather than a visual novel as the three things you said mean there's interactive conflict and player driven roleplaying (through character creation and stat growth) meaning that it meets the bare minimum to be considered interactive media, while if you called the When They Cry novels, or random Type-Moon slop audiobooks I would not disagree with you at all.

But ultimately, I feel like calling a game an RPG just becasue of those 3 things just feels retarded. Ultimately genres are more about "I know it when I see it" and if those are the only 3 things that make DE an RPG it probably isn't an RPG, I won't get mad about it, and I see where you're coming from. I just disagree.

 

[Wesp5]

planescape torment should probably have been a visual novel

I actually read the novelisation of Planescape Torment once to learn what everybody here finds so special about it and it was rather boring and nothing special to me at all. So visual novel might not be the right thing for it !

 

[DehBepis]

any game that isn't real time is a visual novel, and not a game

if you could simulate the experience with a CYOA book and a gameboard in front of you you're just pen and paper larping

 

[Reinhardt]

The real reason Princess Maker isn't an RPG is because it's for weeaboo degen faggots

it's princess maker, not prince maker, fag.

 

[DehBepis]

planescape torment should probably have been a visual novel

I actually read the novelisation of Planescape Torment once to learn what everybody here finds so special about it and it was rather boring and nothing special to me at all. So visual novel might not be the right thing for it !

from my brief recollection of the novelization, I think it suffers from the fact that as a video game (an interactive medium) it's far easier to get away with showing and not telling, as more can be left up to the imagination of the player. One of the strengths of video games as a storytelling medium is the fact it's much easier for the player to get immersed while needing less information about the protagonist they're controlling as they can just substitute traits for themselves in their head.

Also the fact that DnD related novelizations are written only by autists. I'm sure the stupid "cant" or whatever thought up by some idiot Yank who's never seen an actual Scotsman except on TV would be even worse for "muh immersion."

If you can suffer through the Infinity Engine it's definitely a story that I feel takes advantage of the fact that it's a video game, and should be enjoyed as such.

 

[DehBepis]

The real reason Princess Maker isn't an RPG is because it's for weeaboo degen faggots

it's princess maker, not prince maker, fag.

pretending to be a pretty pink pwincess with magical sparkle fairy powers isn't faggotry?

news to me

 

[Nortar]

Everyone here except one guy agrees.

Yeah, because a million of lemmings can not be wrong.
Bro, we've already found out that you can't tell chalk from cheese and RPG from shit unless told by someone else on the internet.

 

[ItsChon]

Disco Elysium is a RPG. I've yet to hear a good argument as to why it is not a cRPG, and the people that continue to rail on about it are just displaying why discourse on this forum around such topics is trash.

 

[Reinhardt]

The real reason Princess Maker isn't an RPG is because it's for weeaboo degen faggots

it's princess maker, not prince maker, fag.

pretending to be a pretty pink pwincess with magical sparkle fairy powers isn't faggotry?

news to me

you play as her mentor, fag.

 

[DehBepis]

Disco Elysium is a RPG. I've yet to hear a good argument as to why it is not a cRPG, and the people that continue to rail on about it are just displaying why discourse on this forum around such topics is trash.

the only retarded thing that's been said about DE in the past couple pages is probably saying it's not a game which is objectively quite well-regarded. I think it's more proof that the terms "visual novel" and "RPG" are as currently defined, basically useless. And games should instead be split up into far more genres than they already are.

This is more a symptom of scarring done to the medium done by corporations (as calling something a "visual novel" or "RPG" means so many things, means you can sell to far more people) but if you have autism it is YOUR DUTY probably for the best to avoid such vague terminology. Planescape: Torment is a real time with pause tactical strategy game with CYOA elements, Disco Elysium is a CYOA game and reads title Underrail is garbage slop.

 

[DehBepis]

The real reason Princess Maker isn't an RPG is because it's for weeaboo degen faggots

it's princess maker, not prince maker, fag.

pretending to be a pretty pink pwincess with magical sparkle fairy powers isn't faggotry?

news to me

you play as her mentor, fag.

Oh yes I forgot that, except for when you're kissing men who are 30 years older than you. An activity I bet you think about a lot creampuff.

 

[Reinhardt]

except for when you're kissing men who are 30 years older than you.

you do? but why?

 

[Luke Skinwalker]

There should not be any female party members in RPGs.

 

[Reinhardt]

There should not be any female party members in RPGs.

ideal game for planetar - sheep herder simulator. part of his ancient culture.

 

[DehBepis]

except for when you're kissing men who are 30 years older than you.

you do? but why?

i wouldn't know, i died in a carriage accident 30 minutes into the game

you seem to be an expert in this matter however

There should not be any female party members in RPGs.

i agree, hard to play with a boner

i'm very glad the modern games industry has fixed this issue by making all the women look like men

 

[ItsChon]

Disco Elysium is a RPG. I've yet to hear a good argument as to why it is not a cRPG, and the people that continue to rail on about it are just displaying why discourse on this forum around such topics is trash.

the only retarded thing that's been said about DE in the past couple pages is probably saying it's not a game which is objectively quite well-regarded. I think it's more proof that the terms "visual novel" and "RPG" are as currently defined, basically useless. And games should instead be split up into far more genres than they already are.

Terms like visual novel and RPG are not useless, it just so happens that the vast majority of the people do not understand what these terms actually mean, and clearly you're included in that.

The games made by Telltale were CYOA visual novel style games. Disco Elysium has many clear differences to these games, and at bare minimum is NOT a visual novel. RPG is the closest genre classification that fits what Disco Elysium is, and while it derivatives in a few meaningful ways from what is traditionally considered a cRPG, unless a new sub genre is invented with DE and the few DE-like games that have been made, it is for all intents and purposes, a cRPG.