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Turn-based combat is not fun

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by JoonaAhonen, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

    Mastermind
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    :lol:

    Turn based can simulate reality (which is real time) better than real time.

    :lol:

    I really have heard it all.

    Do you not realize that Baldur's gate is not real life? They overcomplicated that shit because they were trying to translate a turn based system into real time while trying to stay faithful to the original but it was all unnecessary. They could have easily set a standard attack speed and changed cast time/actual attack speed based on your stats (like you would in a normal real time or rtwp system)
     
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  2. undecaf Arcane Patron

    undecaf
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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I think he means that TB can simulate the minutia of reality more accurately in a percievable form than realtime gameplay, because you can have an effect that makes a difference from the tiniest instances that you might miss in realtime gameplay, because you don’t really have time to notice them (but in real life you would, because you have your senses). Like a broken toe or finger, for example (should the game have that).
     
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  3. Sarathiour Educated

    Sarathiour
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    Ha, you seem like a truly prestigious gamer, sir :obviously:

    I might recommand you to play YIIK, which is the pinnacle of the experience you are craving for.

    Have fun ! :martini:
     
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  4. Zed Duke of Banville Zo Kath Ra Patron

    Zed Duke of Banville
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    Every thread on the topic of turn-based combat versus real-time combat should include a reminder that RTwP is a horrid abomination that combines the worst aspects of both and should be eradicated from the genre. :M
     
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  5. flyingjohn Arcane

    flyingjohn
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    Turn based is the only combat system that is entirely reliant on your skill/planning without any outside factors like reflexes or ability to tell apart a needle in rtwp fights or getting fucked by path finding.
    It can also be mastered without said elements and can be easily learned by casuals.Therefore it is perfect for any system that is is character driven,like rpg's.

    Rtwp is for people who like the concept of combat but don' want to actually deal with the actual combat since most of rtwp is automated.And the harder rtwp fights only make you long for tb because of the annoying micromanagement.


    Tb fans are people who like meticulously building a train set while rt fans are people who like modifying and watching trains go while occasionally pressing a button.
     
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  6. JoonaAhonen Prospernaut Shitposter

    JoonaAhonen
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    I don't actually play with trains. You can go back to your toys, while I sit here, playing not only you, but the intellectuals' favorite: real-time RPGs. TB is for slow people. TB is for virgins that want to fap to a female enemy before she is dead on the ground, unless they're a necrophile, in which case it will generally be better to wait for her being dead on the ground, since necrophilia is often strong enough of a paraphilia to make corpses the afflicted one's primary attraction. This is why I believe necrophile virgins are more inclined to play video games with real-time combat, than are their non-necrophile peers.

    Let me counter your claims:

    1. Turn-based combat is reliant on you sleeping over the heavy issue of a boss fight, hoping to wake up in the morning with an epiphany. It is not for gamers that want to test their skill. You need fluid intelligence for RT. The thing about pathfinding is valid though, but bad pathfinding isn't terribly common in my experience. I never used VATS in Fallout.

    2. It is good for casuals, sure. I'm no casual though.
     
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  7. Ol' Willy Magister

    Ol' Willy
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    Yes, the reality argument. You know, reality is 3D and first-person - should all games be like that? Reality doesn't have save/load - should we eradicate that? Reality doesn't even has the character creation. This way you stuck playing your life as a fat and ugly RT fag, while I play as smart and beautiful TB enthusiast.
     
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  8. Deadman Arcane Patron

    Deadman
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Real time combat isn't fun either. This is why Planescape Torment and Disco Elysium are considered to be best rpgs on codex.
     
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  9. Jvegi Arcane

    Jvegi
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    No outside factors except for dice rolls and initiative checks you mean.
     
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  10. Doktor Best Arcane

    Doktor Best
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    You can see harvest season has started.
     
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  11. Lurker47 Learned

    Lurker47
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    Turn-based is easier to make good than real-time. Unfortunately, most developers don't bother to make either of them fun.
     
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  12. NJClaw Ontopolover by choice Patron

    NJClaw
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    Pathfinder: Kingmaker
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  13. JoonaAhonen Prospernaut Shitposter

    JoonaAhonen
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    Idk if you're making fun of me, but I still appreciate the kind words. I always wanted to be a video game journalist. I remember reading video game critique by Scorpia back when, and I fell in love with her excellent roasting.
     
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  14. octavius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    octavius
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    But in practice the best enemy AI I've seen in a CRPG is BG1 and 2 with the SCS mod installed.
     
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  15. Dyspaire Augur

    Dyspaire
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    7-Layer Bars

    • 1 cup walnuts
    • 2 sticks (8 ounces) unsalted butter, melted
    • 3 1/2 cups graham cracker crumbs (from one 14.4-ounce box)
    • 4 cups semisweet chocolate chips (1 pound 5 ounces)
    • One 11-ounce bag butterscotch chips (1 1/4 cups)
    • 3/4 cup white-chocolate chips
    • One 14-ounce bag sweetened shredded coconut
    • One 14-ounce can sweetened condensed milk (1 1/2 cups)

    How to Make It
    Step 1
    Preheat the oven to 350°. Spread the walnuts in a pie plate and toast until golden and fragrant, about 8 minutes. Let cool then coarsely chop.

    Step 2
    In a large bowl, mix the melted butter with the graham cracker crumbs until evenly moistened. Press the crumbs onto the bottom of a 15-by-17-inch baking pan. Scatter the semisweet chocolate chips on top, followed by the butterscotch chips, white chocolate chips, toasted walnuts and coconut. Scrape the condensed milk into a microwave-safe container and heat it at high power for 30 seconds, until just fluid. Drizzle the milk evenly over the coconut.

    Step 3
    Bake the bars in the center of the oven for about 30 minutes, until the coconut is toasted; rotate the pan once for even cooking. Transfer the pan to a rack and let the bars cool completely, at least 4 hours. Cut the bars lengthwise into 6 strips and crosswise into 6 strips to make 36 bars.


    Make Ahead

    The bars can be kept in an airtight container at room temperature for up to 5 days, refrigerated for up to 1 week or frozen for up to 1 month.

     
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  16. Darth Canoli Magister

    Darth Canoli
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    Didn't play that mod so i can't compare but one of the best AI (if not the best) is KotC 2 one.
     
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  17. Goldschmidt Educated

    Goldschmidt
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    Key word highlighted. We all know about the codex and their precious feelings!

    You stole that mental image from me. Yes, imagine a turnbased duel between two nerdy codexers armed with water pistols, each having to wait their turn to attack. It would be cringey as hell. Everyone on the planet knows that POE has the best action combat in a rpg and it will keep that place for the forthcoming years with the sequel. Fallout combat is pretty boring compared to it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Darth Canoli Magister

    Darth Canoli
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    The picture isn't Turn-Based though.
    You certainly won't feel clever at all when you'll notice they're both firing simultaneously, this is literally RtwP (pause at first to prepare the duel)
     
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  19. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
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    Dominions switched from TB to RT, I don't mind the change, it's p. cool actually
     
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  20. ProphetSword Arcane Developer

    ProphetSword
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    Haven't seen KotC 2 myself yet, but I can tell you that KotC (1) has one of the best enemy AIs you will ever encounter. If that shit was real-time, you would lose every battle.
     
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  21. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

    Mastermind
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    "I can't find my character"

    [​IMG]

    Like I said, TB preference is literal retardation.
     
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  22. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

    Mastermind
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    Like most turn based retards you completely miss the point of my argument.

    Third person isn't an abstraction of 1st person, like turn based is an abstraction of real time, retard. It doesn't need to rely on inferior approximations to emulate a feature of the system like turn based. It's just different.

    Real time isn't superior to turn based merely because it's real, but because TB is BY DESIGN a handicapped version of real time. It gives up the potential to accurately emulate every scenario in exchange for allowing retards to take as long as their slow, snail like minds can move to make a decision.
     
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  23. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

    Mastermind
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    It's actually the opposite, real time decisions are limited only by the frame rate whereas turn based decisions are limited by turn length (which is almost always longer than a split second). It's actually very hard to emulate minutia with turn based games and it would become virtually unplayable if you tried.

    If you want to give the player complete control over every tiny detail you make a good rtwp system (with lots of autopause features).
    If you want the player to manage their attention as a resource and limit how much they can do you make a real time with no pause system.

    To do the former in TB you'll always be limited by ap/turns as discrete units much larger than a frame and to do the latter in TB you have to tack on stupid shit like QTEs.
     
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  24. Mastermind Arcane Patron Bethestard

    Mastermind
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    Not explicitly but it's the same line of argument (the quote is from another retard who argued the same point in a previous discussion). The topic has been done to death here. TBtards can't just say they enjoy TB more, you actually have the balls to claim intellectual superiority, often in the same sentence you admit real time is too much for your brain to cope with. :lol:

    How can you expect me NOT TO go for low hanging fruit like that? You can't. It's inhuman.
     
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  25. ArisatoSeldom Literate

    ArisatoSeldom
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    Should have been stay away from this holy war, but oh well.

    The only party rpg RTwP system which I enjoyed playing with no hiccups was from Growlanser: Wayfarer of Time jrpg. Every unit does have it's "speed" attribute which affects how soon they can do an action (something like real-time mode in FF, but better). Given there are a ways to buff/debuff speed of unit, spell strength progress with the time casted, this all gives some tactical depth to the encounters (excluding trash ones). And good thing that game levels were designed around this systems.
    I wish character options and progression were not so simple, but story variations and encounter-puzzles keep you engaged.

    As for IE RTwP. Honestly, I have never understood, why should one have real-time, which is emulating TB, which you pause every goddamn round anyway? Phase turn anyone?
    If you are making RTwP, you do RTwP and molding system to work smooth with it and design encounters to use your real-time feature. Not some clunky TB emulation, which is no good.
     
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