Underrail: Infusion pre-release megathread

[The Wall]

Looks awesome. Can we expect a variety of death animations Fallout-esque?

Also EA when? I am ready to throw money at this

Yes, we have the tools to make interesting death animations this time around.

EA is likely, but I cannot say when it might start, we're still some ways off.

You can expect the (visible) development to pick up from this point as I'm pretty much done with reworking all the fundamental features of the engine now.

Is it an original engine or it is based on some third party engine like Unreal or Unity?

It is our own custom engine. It's built out of the engine of the previous game.

That's why it feels and looks so distinct. Unlike Unity/Unreal slop, which unless saved by good art direction looks exactly the same 90% of time

In what programming language is Underrail coded? C/C++? I doubt it's JavaScript You leave impression of GOOD programmer to me, like Tim Cain was in your years. That always helps. Srećno Sir Styg!

 

[BING XI LAO]

Go play MMOs, popamole skinnerbox peasants. DURR NUMBER MUST ALWAYS GO UP

 

[BING XI LAO]

I just played a tank playthrough and still did lots of sneaking. You can change outfits.

I played armored tanks and I didn't have to do that, nor felt the need. Why did you?
In fact I found that negative-stealth sniper works, and can absolutely dominate, largely due to the addition of Shooting Spree a few years ago. This is because the game has changed since 2015.

Who did you feel the need to spend time killing everything you came across?

It's possible to build a character where you either need all your points for using and crafting non-stealth gear, or where armor penalty pushes you to non-stealth anyhow. Have you explored what builds are actually possible in this game or do you just play the same build every time?

What a retard. You can stealth through most things with 3 agi and oculus-bought equipment. Like 2590 qual ninja tabis are purchasable and the rathound regalia is a fine enough body piece for stealth because of its movement bonus
"armour penalty pushes you to non-stealth" yes that's why I said you can change outfits

 

[BING XI LAO]

You get better at it by practicing. With this in mind, it objectively makes no sense that you get stronger from killing your first ten or so rathounds, but then learn nothing from the next 190. Keep swinging that sledgehammer and you'll get stronger.

The PC ends up accomplishing insane feats which go vastly beyond being really, really optimised at prosaic stuff like killing rathounds. How many dead rathounds adds up to having the nous to reach Abyssal Station Zero or restore IRIS?

 

[Styg]

There's two main issues with oddities:

• They rely on items as means of XP distribution
• The XP is only given at specific points which makes the "everyday" skill usage sometime seem unrewarding and meaningless

I plan to fix these issues not by tweaking either of these system, but coming up with a new one that will be based on a different paradigm altogether.

 

[ciox]

I just played a tank playthrough and still did lots of sneaking. You can change outfits.

I played armored tanks and I didn't have to do that, nor felt the need. Why did you?
In fact I found that negative-stealth sniper works, and can absolutely dominate, largely due to the addition of Shooting Spree a few years ago. This is because the game has changed since 2015.

Who did you feel the need to spend time killing everything you came across?

It's possible to build a character where you either need all your points for using and crafting non-stealth gear, or where armor penalty pushes you to non-stealth anyhow. Have you explored what builds are actually possible in this game or do you just play the same build every time?

What a retard. You can stealth through most things with 3 agi and oculus-bought equipment. Like 2590 qual ninja tabis are purchasable and the rathound regalia is a fine enough body piece for stealth because of its movement bonus
"armour penalty pushes you to non-stealth" yes that's why I said you can change outfits

You know the risks of switching to an outfit with barely any protection when you have low agility, and are just pretending not to for the sake of argument.
It's also kind of silly to pretend that unskilled stealth works great on Dom with the increased enemy numbers, or that it's faster than combat when you can just drop enemies instantly with Shooting Spree.

 

[jackofshadows]

I wanna trust in Styg but somehow my conscience tells me to buckle up with this "new system".

 

[thesecret1]

There's two main issues with oddities:

• They rely on items as means of XP distribution
• The XP is only given at specific points which makes the "everyday" skill usage sometime seem unrewarding and meaningless

I plan to fix these issues not by tweaking either of these system, but coming up with a new one that will be based on a different paradigm altogether.

So long as I don't end up overlevelled halfway through the game, I'll be happy.

 

[The people of Duckburg]

The PC ends up accomplishing insane feats which go vastly beyond being really, really optimised at prosaic stuff like killing rathounds.

How is that in any way relevant? As you practice doing something, you get better at it. Shooting something twice isn't the same thing as shooting something two thousand times. Rathounds were an example, in case you didn't understand that. You're going to be shooting a lot of things throughout the game. It makes sense that it would gradually make you better at it over time. A traditional XP system somewhat reflects this by giving you points for every enemy you defeat. It's not perfectly realistic, but it makes sense for a game. If it's a constant escalation of accomplishments system you want, oddity fails at that, too. That oddity you missed at the start of the game will still be worth as many points when you go back to grab it after defeating the big T.

How many dead rathounds adds up to having the nous to reach Abyssal Station Zero or restore IRIS?

That exact same line of thinking can be applied to oddity XP. If reaching ASZ is worth two oddity XP, does that mean that it's exactly the same level of accomplishment as looting two rathound ears? No, obviously not, but we give these things numbers as an abstraction. The same is done with a traditional XP system. I have no idea why you can't just admit that your argument was bad and instead have to go full retard like this.

There's two main issues with oddities:

• They rely on items as means of XP distribution
• The XP is only given at specific points which makes the "everyday" skill usage sometime seem unrewarding and meaningless

I plan to fix these issues not by tweaking either of these system, but coming up with a new one that will be based on a different paradigm altogether.

Well, I'm interested in seeing it. From only playing the game, I got the impression that you're fond of experimental systems and gimmicks. Sometimes it leads to striking gold, sometimes we get the cooling tower.

 

[kangaxx]

There's two main issues with oddities:

• They rely on items as means of XP distribution
• The XP is only given at specific points which makes the "everyday" skill usage sometime seem unrewarding and meaningless

I plan to fix these issues not by tweaking either of these system, but coming up with a new one that will be based on a different paradigm altogether.

What's wrong with items for XP distribution? Harder to "ensure" or regulate the player's power curve? I like the Oddity system and used it in my one playthrough.

 

[BING XI LAO]

The PC ends up accomplishing insane feats which go vastly beyond being really, really optimised at prosaic stuff like killing rathounds.

How is that in any way relevant? As you practice doing something, you get better at it. Shooting something twice isn't the same thing as shooting something two thousand times. Rathounds were an example, in case you didn't understand that. You're going to be shooting a lot of things throughout the game. It makes sense that it would gradually make you better at it over time. A traditional XP system somewhat reflects this by giving you points for every enemy you defeat. It's not perfectly realistic, but it makes sense for a game. If it's a constant escalation of accomplishments system you want, oddity fails at that, too. That oddity you missed at the start of the game will still be worth as many points when you go back to grab it after defeating the big T.

How many dead rathounds adds up to having the nous to reach Abyssal Station Zero or restore IRIS?

That exact same line of thinking can be applied to oddity XP. If reaching ASZ is worth two oddity XP, does that mean that it's exactly the same level of accomplishment as looting two rathound ears? No, obviously not, but we give these things numbers as an abstraction. The same is done with a traditional XP system. I have no idea why you can't just admit that your argument was bad and instead have to go full retard like this.

And I have no idea why you don't go play MMOs if you want 'number go up' skinnerbox grinding. Why complain about one of the few RPGs that innovated past the dogshit genre conventions?

The cool thing in character development is acquiring new feats, threshholds for crafting, new items, not +1 to X skill that increments the damage a bullet that came out of your gun does. The real character growth should be from uncovering secrets, schizo conversations with Dude and Ferryman, schizo monolith visions, breaking and entering a manor.... not shooting things until they die, to become better at shooting, to shoot more things better.

 

[MF]

There's two main issues with oddities:

• They rely on items as means of XP distribution
• The XP is only given at specific points which makes the "everyday" skill usage sometime seem unrewarding and meaningless

I plan to fix these issues not by tweaking either of these system, but coming up with a new one that will be based on a different paradigm altogether.

The second argument isn't relevant. That leads to the folly of learn by doing.

The oddity system is awesome. I abandoned my one playthrough with classic because I noticed I was grinding.

You could combine the two by gating classic XP progression with oddities so you can't grind ad infinitum, that might work.

Different paradigm altogether sounds interesting, but Oddity was pretty good to begin with.

 

[kangaxx]

I'm playing a lot of Kenshi at the moment and "learning by doing" works really well there. But it's a different type of game altogether.

 

[The people of Duckburg]

And I have no idea why you don't go play MMOs if you want 'number go up' skinnerbox grinding. Why complain about one of the few RPGs that innovated past the dogshit genre conventions?

Because I don't want that, nor does Underrail give me that. I can't think of a single occasion that I've actually grinded for XP on classic. Why are you unable to respond to what I'm saying rather than creating some strawman version of me?

The cool thing in character development is acquiring new feats, threshholds for crafting, new items, not +1 to X skill that increments the damage a bullet that came out of your gun does.

What you gain per level is identical whether you're on classic or oddity. This is another strawman argument that has nothing to do with reality.

 

[ciox]

Lil bro never even explained why he wants people to carry stealth suits around on all of their builds.
What is that supposed to do, save time? Threading the needle of stealthing through dense crowds of enemies in higher diffs saves time? In a world where depending on build, you can use multi-shot snipers to delete threats on sight, or even more likely (not that I approve) just use psi combos to completely shut down enemies.
Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

It feels like this is a thing that can happen when you have a game with a relatively high challenge level like Underrail. People may start learning and ossifying one base tactic of getting through the game, and then start to believe it's the only way, or the fastest way, or some other approximation of reality.

 

[lukaszek]

or... you fix everyday skills by adding oddities that can only be acquired by utilizing them? Feels like it was already in
- oligarch sneak only oddities
- plenty of pickpocket oddities(granted can be acquired by going murder hobo, same with above though)
- hacking/lockpick <- already present?
- combat/psi <- thats enemy oddity

which leaves crafting and social skills. Mercantile had some in dlc, but I think it was available to everyone so can be fixed by moving to secret stock.

Also dunno about 'items reliance' part. After all quests also give oddity xp.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Lil bro never even explained why he wants people to carry stealth suits around on all of their builds.

Rathound Regalia: 3
Ninja Tabis: 0.17
Cloaking Device: 0.95
Oh no, the pain of having to carry 4 weight.

What is that supposed to do, save time? Threading the needle of stealthing through dense crowds of enemies in higher diffs saves time? In a world where depending on build, you can use multi-shot snipers to delete threats on sight, or even more likely (not that I approve) just use psi combos to completely shut down enemies.
Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Imagine arguing that you should ignore stealth because just DPS maxx bro. Wow so diverse.

It feels like this is a thing that can happen when you have a game with a relatively high challenge level like Underrail. People may start learning and ossifying one base tactic of getting through the game, and then start to believe it's the only way, or the fastest way, or some other approximation of reality.

I'm the one who mentioned playing a tank but stealthing around in various places. You're the one saying just Shooting Spree everything, or never take your heavy armour off.

Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Restricting what your character is 'allowed' to do is limiting your playstyle not expanding it.

 

[BING XI LAO]

or... you fix everyday skills by adding oddities that can only be acquired by utilizing them? Feels like it was already in
- oligarch sneak only oddities
- plenty of pickpocket oddities(granted can be acquired by going murder hobo, same with above though)
- hacking/lockpick <- already present?
- combat/psi <- thats enemy oddity

which leaves crafting and social skills. Mercantile had some in dlc, but I think it was available to everyone so can be fixed by moving to secret stock.

Also dunno about 'items reliance' part. After all quests also give oddity xp.

Favourite moment for me recently was only being able to get the paper money oddity in Rail Crossing lategame by gettingt Biology high enough to make third eye, to see Deacon's shop, to pickpocket the keycard.

Crazy to think that for some degenerate subhumanoids, combat XP is more compelling. Come to think of it one of the subhumanoids mentioned that his character wasn't 'allowed' to pickpocket (lol). Just like sniper-sperg must always snipe everything for an entire playthrough. And never change out of armour. Digusting tbh

 

[ciox]

Lil bro never even explained why he wants people to carry stealth suits around on all of their builds.

Rathound Regalia: 3
Ninja Tabis: 0.17
Cloaking Device: 0.95
Oh no, the pain of having to carry 4 weight.

What is that supposed to do, save time? Threading the needle of stealthing through dense crowds of enemies in higher diffs saves time? In a world where depending on build, you can use multi-shot snipers to delete threats on sight, or even more likely (not that I approve) just use psi combos to completely shut down enemies.
Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Imagine arguing that you should ignore stealth because just DPS maxx bro. Wow so diverse.

It feels like this is a thing that can happen when you have a game with a relatively high challenge level like Underrail. People may start learning and ossifying one base tactic of getting through the game, and then start to believe it's the only way, or the fastest way, or some other approximation of reality.

I'm the one who mentioned playing a tank but stealthing around in various places. You're the one saying just Shooting Spree everything, or never take your heavy armour off.

Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Restricting what your character is 'allowed' to do is limiting your playstyle not expanding it.

Whether it's convenient or not is still dodging the issue of why you would choose to use stealth on every single character, while thinking that is diverse.
You're the one who seems to have built a single path through the whole game with a few switches in it like main weapon used, and thinking that any deviation from this path must be due to "restrictions".

 

[Ol' Willy]

Why did you feel the need to spend time killing everything you came across?

why you would choose to use stealth on every single character

Munchkinism, minmaxxing, etc

 

[MerchantKing]

Lil bro never even explained why he wants people to carry stealth suits around on all of their builds.

Rathound Regalia: 3
Ninja Tabis: 0.17
Cloaking Device: 0.95
Oh no, the pain of having to carry 4 weight.

What is that supposed to do, save time? Threading the needle of stealthing through dense crowds of enemies in higher diffs saves time? In a world where depending on build, you can use multi-shot snipers to delete threats on sight, or even more likely (not that I approve) just use psi combos to completely shut down enemies.
Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Imagine arguing that you should ignore stealth because just DPS maxx bro. Wow so diverse.

It feels like this is a thing that can happen when you have a game with a relatively high challenge level like Underrail. People may start learning and ossifying one base tactic of getting through the game, and then start to believe it's the only way, or the fastest way, or some other approximation of reality.

I'm the one who mentioned playing a tank but stealthing around in various places. You're the one saying just Shooting Spree everything, or never take your heavy armour off.

Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Restricting what your character is 'allowed' to do is limiting your playstyle not expanding it.

Whether it's convenient or not is still dodging the issue of why you would choose to use stealth on every single character, while thinking that is diverse.
You're the one who seems to have built a single path through the whole game with a few switches in it like main weapon used, and thinking that any deviation from this path must be due to "restrictions".

In Dominating stealth is quite a useful thing in the early game to get into good positions or even avoid fights you cannot handle. I.e. just outside of gms if you have some ranged weapon you can easily clear out the rathounds if you get behind the fence and close the gate. Having stealth makes it that much easier.

 

[Ol' Willy]

As I said, in my opinion the combined system will be good

The main progression will remain oddity based as in Underrail, maybe with some tweaks

But then we add a light SP gain for using skills. Not too much, just enough to reward you for specialization and satisfy your inner munchkin

It wouldn't change the balance much but will answer the question of "what I get for killing those 69 death stalkers"

 

[BING XI LAO]

Lil bro never even explained why he wants people to carry stealth suits around on all of their builds.

Rathound Regalia: 3
Ninja Tabis: 0.17
Cloaking Device: 0.95
Oh no, the pain of having to carry 4 weight.

What is that supposed to do, save time? Threading the needle of stealthing through dense crowds of enemies in higher diffs saves time? In a world where depending on build, you can use multi-shot snipers to delete threats on sight, or even more likely (not that I approve) just use psi combos to completely shut down enemies.
Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Imagine arguing that you should ignore stealth because just DPS maxx bro. Wow so diverse.

It feels like this is a thing that can happen when you have a game with a relatively high challenge level like Underrail. People may start learning and ossifying one base tactic of getting through the game, and then start to believe it's the only way, or the fastest way, or some other approximation of reality.

I'm the one who mentioned playing a tank but stealthing around in various places. You're the one saying just Shooting Spree everything, or never take your heavy armour off.

Imagine getting into RPGs and not realizing there is more than one way to play them.

Restricting what your character is 'allowed' to do is limiting your playstyle not expanding it.

Whether it's convenient or not is still dodging the issue of why you would choose to use stealth on every single character, while thinking that is diverse.
You're the one who seems to have built a single path through the whole game with a few switches in it like main weapon used, and thinking that any deviation from this path must be due to "restrictions".

Are you also enough of a sperg to go an entire playthrough without any throwing skill and never throwing anything, because "this character doesn't throw things"?

 

[ciox]

In Dominating stealth is quite a useful thing in the early game to get into good positions or even avoid fights you cannot handle. I.e. just outside of gms if you have some ranged weapon you can easily clear out the rathounds if you get behind the fence and close the gate. Having stealth makes it that much easier.

Bro, last few characters did just fine without it. GMS? By then you already went past 2 spots where you could pick up an LMG for a heavy guns character. And even if you don't there's more shenanigans to be had like running and luring them to explosive barrels.

As I said, in my opinion the combined system will be good

The main progression will remain oddity based as in Underrail, maybe with some tweaks

But then we add a light SP gain for using skills. Not too much, just enough to reward you for specialization and satisfy your inner munchkin

It wouldn't change the balance much but will answer the question of "what I get for killing those 69 death stalkers"

I wouldn't be surprised if that got in, since recent games like Colony Ship for instance seem to be an influence on the devs, but I wouldn't really like it, feels parallel to whole concept of XP.
Just making the XP more granular and oddity drops less front-loaded and random would help a lot. The most lethal enemies would drop more oddities over the course of the game, while less lethal would drop less, keeping the total XP reasonable. You can also have failsafes like granting combat XP directly but only when a hostile named NPC is slain, which takes some pressure off of designers to always have an oddity at the ready.
But I already mentioned this stuff. There's no telling what the new system will be like, though I hope it's not as complicated as the new armor system.

 

[BING XI LAO]

It wouldn't change the balance much but will answer the question of "what I get for killing those 69 death stalkers"

You do get the crucial ingredient for Super Health Hypos.