Underrail - Serbian pillow talk, turning Tricks, taking tips

[razvedchiki]

best smg for smg build is the 7.62 steel cat,with rapid reloader and (i dont remember how much dex) commando/adrenaline shot i did 5 bursts each round.even after adrenaline runs out you have 3 bursts,and 7.62 is pretty common.

 

[Trashos]

OK, don't mean to disrupt Piotrovitz's discussion, which will hopefully continue, but I am looking for opinions on the feats my full-psi build, which I am trying to perfect. It is a fairly standard Tranquility build for Hard difficulty, CON 8 WILL 10 (++) INT 10, includes crafting and some stealth. I have no Dodge/Evade.

Feats until level 16 (where I am at): Fast Metabolism, Nimble, Tranquility, Thermodynamicity, Force User (for the robots), Premeditation, Meditation, Neural Overclocking (when Focus Stim became available), Locus of Control, Pyromaniac.

So I am done with the core of my build and now I have got to choose the rest. I don't see any other must-take or exceptionally helpful feats, which makes my choices harder. I am looking at Paranoia (to compensate for my crappy Initiative a bit) and Neurology at levels 18 & 20, but then what.

I may go with Cerebral Trauma, but I don't use Neural Overload that much. I don't think I really need that 20% boost for whenever I get bilocated. Might come in handy with some enemies in DC, though.

Hypothermia looks very good in theory, but I took it in a previous run and was underwhelmed by it. The -1 CON effect didn't seem to make much of a difference, so I will only take this if I can't find something better.

Psychostatic Electricity doesn't look like it's going to make much of a difference, but I have no experience with it. Might take it if I can't find something that actually helps, but i don't expect much.

I took Cryogenic Induction in a previous run and didn't use it almost at all.

Mental Subversion sucks, as has already been discussed around here.

I do not find Clothier very exciting.

Obviously I don't fulfill the requirements for Blitz, Quick tinkering, and Grenadier.

There are also some interesting defensive feats. Last Stand looks like it could make a difference for when things get out of hand, but I don't fulfill the CON requirements unfortunately. I could spend one attribute point on CON in order to get Last Stand, but I doubt it's worth THAT much. That leaves us with Conditioning and Stoicism. They look decent, and might even be kinda awesome when on top of resistance drugs for harder fights. I have no experience with them.

So my current plan is to get Paranoia (18), Neurology (20), Cerebral trauma (22), Conditioning (24). Any objections or words of wisdom?

 

[Parabalus]

OK, don't mean to disrupt Piotrovitz's discussion, which will hopefully continue, but I am looking for opinions on the feats my full-psi build, which I am trying to perfect. It is a fairly standard Tranquility build for Hard mode, CON 8 WILL 10 (++) INT 10, includes crafting and some stealth. I have no Dodge/Evade.

Feats until level 16 (where I am at): Fast Metabolism, Nimble, Tranquility, Thermodynamicity, Force User (for the robots), Premeditation, Meditation, Neural Overclocking (when Focus Stim became available), Locus of Control, Pyromaniac.

So I am done with the core of my build and now I have got to choose the rest. I don't see any other must-take or exceptionally helpful feats, which makes my choices harder. I am looking at Paranoia (to compensate for my crappy Initiative a bit) and Neurology at levels 18 & 20, but then what.

I may go with Cerebral Trauma, but I don't use Neural Overload that much. I don't think I really need that 20% boost for whenever I get bilocated. Might come in handy with some enemies in DC, though.

Hypothermia looks very good in theory, but I took it in a previous run and was underwhelmed by it. The -1 CON effect didn't seem to make much of a difference, so I will only take this if I can't find something better.

Psychostatic Electricity doesn't look like it's going to make much of a difference, but I have no experience with it. Might take it if I can't find something that actually helps, but i don't expect much.

I took Cryogenic Induction in a previous run and didn't use it almost at all.

Mental Subversion sucks, as has already been discussed around here.

I do not find Clothier very exciting.

Obviously I don't fulfill the requirements for Blitz, Quick tinkering, and Grenadier.

There are also some interesting defensive feats. Last Stand looks like it could make a difference for when things get out of hand, but I don't fulfill the CON requirements unfortunately. I could spend one attribute point on CON in order to get Last Stand, but I doubt it's worth THAT much. That leaves us with Conditioning and Stoicism. They look decent, and might even be kinda awesome when on top of resistance drugs for harder fights. I have no experience with them.

So my current plan is to get Paranoia (18), Neurology (20), Cerebral trauma (22), Conditioning (24). Any objections or words of wisdom?

I'd trade Paranoia and Conditioning for Pack Rack and Power Management (assuming you have electronics). I wouldn't drop Cerebral trauma because it's the best damage option against organics.

Most of the PSI feats are pretty bad after detailed inspection, sadly.

Out of the 4 the only one I'd very reluctantly consider is Hypothermia, with the frost orb you can drop several stacks on one target. Epeli linked a calculator once, it adds like 10-50 damage per stack on 100% enemy. Not really worth it even in best case scenario.

 

[Trashos]

Parabalus,
You are rght, I should stick to Cerebral Trauma. I usually find Cryokinesis cozier, but Neural Overload obviously has its uses.

I consider myself fine without Pack Rat around underrail proper. The only reason why I would consider it is that it's going to allow me to carry more stuff to DC. Eh, I can probably do better than this.

I had forgotten about Power Management. Yes, I am fully invested in Electronics, and the bonus to shields is handy. I think it's going to amount to better results than Conditioning in most situations, so I will probably switch from Conditioning to Power Management.

So my newest plan is:
Paranoia (18), Neurology (20), Cerebral Trauma (22), Power Management (24).

Considering Conditioning or Hypothermia instead of Paranoia, but I am kinda sick of always losing the Initiative battle.

 

[ciox]

I think Pyromaniac is the best one or most impactful one, it should trigger several turns of Fear on your enemies pretty often unless they're the aluminiumated grenade lords. The rest are a little weak perhaps because a good Psi build is strong anyway.

 

[Sykar]

Force User is a great PSI feat as well.

 

[Trashos]

ciox, Sykar,

Yes, Pyromaniac and Force User are great. I am at level 16 now, and I have already taken them. Here is my build, up to level 16:
Fast Metabolism, Nimble, Tranquility, Thermodynamicity, Force User, Premeditation, Meditation, Neural Overclocking, Locus of Control, Pyromaniac.

We are discussing what I should take at levels 18-24.

 

[Sykar]

ciox, Sykar,

Yes, Pyromaniac and Force User are great. I am at level 16 now, and I have already taken them. Here is my build, up to level 16:
Fast Metabolism, Nimble, Tranquility, Thermodynamicity, Force User, Premeditation, Meditation, Neural Overclocking, Locus of Control, Pyromaniac.

We are discussing what I should take at levels 18-24.

Ah sorry overlooked that. Frankly your build is done. You could take anything and you would still destroy content.

 

[epeli]

Trashos
I have a hunch that your build & playstyle would work better with Psychosis, have you tried that yet? You can't be using using Tranquility much if you're considering many damage reducing feats, have 8 CON, take Force User "for the robots" and don't use Neural Overload much.

Out of the feats you're considering, I'm surprised you didn't pick Cerebral Trauma earlier. Tranquil psi needs all the extra damage they can get. Power management is just amazing thanks to shields being what they are. Neurology is always nice to have, although you already have highest possible regen and Fast Metabolism. Paranoia is not a bad feat by any means, but it alone won't win you initiative if you're rolling with 3 agi 3 dex.

Now that it actually works (was broken before 1.0.3), Psychostatic Electricity is surprisingly good against groups of bots and anything else you handle by spamming electrokinesis. Anything sturdy enough to survive a few bounces will become noticeably vulnerable to crits.

Pack Rathound is useless for psi. You only need to carry drugs and few lighweight armor swap pieces.

One interesting aspect of Hypothermia is its synergy with other cryo-weapons: Cryogas has a chance of freezing hypothermic enemies. A very niche strategy to use, but it's cool for cold-themed builds. Not very good feat for a general-purpose powergamed build.

 

[Parabalus]

Trashos

Like epeli above says I think Psychosis is better, I'll be running basically the same build but with Psychosis & 9 INT to get Survival Instincts when the expansion finally hits, but that's useless for Tranquility.

Trashos
Pack Rathound is useless for psi. You only need to carry drugs and few lighweight armor swap pieces.

You also need to carry loot to sell to pay for your house and super steel, also food, fishing gear, bombs, nets etc. - 130 is pretty tight. The last feat has no good contenders ATM (since most PSI feats are garbage), might as well get convenience.

 

[Trashos]

epeli, Parabalus

Well, I use the Tranquility bonus on the 1st round! My playthroughs are pseudo-ironman currently, so I want my build to be dependable and minimize the amount of dying. Depending on crits does not sound like a very good idea under these circumstances.
I will definitely try Psychosis on a following run (haven't experimented with it yet), although it sounds like it depends too much on the dice roll, and I don't want that.

I am indeed going to take Cerebral Trauma at some point, although it is not clear to me why everyone is so in love with it. Cryokinesis hits much harder against most enemies (although this may change in DC due to the high enemy resistances, don't remember), not to mention that Cryokinesis synergizes well with the heat attacks through Thermodynamicity. But yeah, I am not saying that Cerebral Trauma is useless, I am just not convinced that it is going to be a difference maker.

I find 130 to be enough for loot carrying. Biology for extracting humour (some organs are heavy), and also turning the cheaper armors to repair kits helps a lot. But I do walk back and forth a lot to sell the loot and take advantage of the stock renewal pace. So I see why someone would want to take it, but I don't need it.

Hmmm... the info on Psychostatic Electricity is interesting, as psi builds need all the help they can get against robots. Gotta ponder on it, thanks!

 

[Black Angel]

I am indeed going to take Cerebral Trauma at some point, although it is not clear to me why everyone is so in love with it. Cryokinesis hits much harder against most enemies (although this may change in DC due to the high enemy resistances, don't remember), not to mention that Cryokinesis synergizes well with the heat attacks through Thermodynamicity. But yeah, I am not saying that Cerebral Trauma is useless, I am just not convinced that it is going to be a difference maker.

It's a 20% increase to Neural Overload's base damage, which not only can't be shielded against, but also bypass standard electrical resistance and only reduced by target's resolve, of which I would say aren't really that high across the game since TC alone could dominates the entire game except for bots. Compare this to Cryokinesis that can be reduced by cold resistance, of which there are a lot of enemies that are resistant to it either because they wear Balaclava, Insulated Vest-based armor, or a combination of both, AND the goddamn bots once again are highly resistant to Metathermics spells. On paper, the combination of cold + mechanical damage of Cryokinesis might seemed like it can deal greater damage than Neural Overload's singular electrical damage. However, until either Styg or epeli denies it, I will apply Dark Souls's logic on combined damage to Underrail and say Cryokinesis deals less damage because your target essentially reduces both your cold AND mechanical damage. How less the damage is being dealt, I can't say, but at least Cryokinesis main strength is how it could slows down your target, really good debuff when augmented by feats, and especially its long range compared to Neural Overload.
It's why Cerebral Trauma is a relatively much better feat when you're going psyker, since it augment one of the psi school's bread-n'-butter spell, that deals singular damage type that ignores shield AND bypass its damage type's resistance, in terms of DPS, because like epeli said a Tranquility-based psyker would need all the extra damage they can get. Also, with Cerebral Trauma, you can use Neural Overload to burn psi reserve of a hostile psyker, of which there are plenty in Underrail (Coil Spiders, Psi Beetles, the Lunatics, maybe even the new critters the Expeditions will bring). And lastly, when combined with Mental Breakdown, Neural Overload will deal double damage, so that + Cerebral Trauma AND crit proc (of which could be 100% if you go down Psychosis -> Psionic Mania route) could literally one-shot everything, like you would with Snipe. Well, maybe not the final boss, because as epeli mentioned before it has high resolve, but maybe you can still one shot it if you have a build setup that takes Mental Subversion feat....

 

[Parabalus]

And lastly, when combined with Mental Breakdown, Neural Overload will deal double damage, so that + Cerebral Trauma AND crit proc (of which could be 100% if you go down Psychosis -> Psionic Mania route) could literally one-shot everything, like you would with Snipe. Well, maybe not the final boss, because as epeli mentioned before it has high resolve, but maybe you can still one shot it if you have a build setup that takes Mental Subversion feat....

I'd post a screen if I had it, but on my virgin run I crit the end boss for 2k-ish with Neural Overload. You can likely go to 3k with better optimization.

 

[hilfazer]

Don't take Neurology, you won't need it. Not with Meditation. Not with Fast Metabolism that will make psi boosters always restore 100 psi due to 125 max psi. Not without Psychosis. Not when you can hide behind a force wall for 4 turns and regenerate. I didn't need it on Psychosis build.

Robots are your biggest problem, everything that lives can be obliterated in 100 ways, and electrokinesis is your primary tool to fight them so why not boost it with Psychostatic Electricity.

Paranoia is fine. It's not just ini but also less chance to get crit and this makes staying on full life easier.

Power Management is good.

Hypothermia... it should be unnerfed. It was nerfed because there was very little competition in psi feats but now there's more. Since you already have thermodynamicity, hypothermia is not removed by heat psi and cryo orb exists you may as well take it. Or something that helps vs robots, like Conditioning.

 

[epeli]

Cryokinesis is great for kiting. Huge range and chill. Neural overload is generally better because it's cheap, penetrates any kind of defense and synergizes with the best psi ability (Mental Breakdown).

Also obscene psychotic crits as seen in some old psi guide:

 

[Trashos]

OK, at level 18 currently, followed the consensus and took Cerebral Trauma. I will try to make good use of it. I had somehow missed its synergy with Mental Breakdown, good stuff.

Current status of my CON 8 WILL 10++ INT 10 Tranquility build:

Fast Metabolism, Nimble, Tranquility, Thermodynamicity, Force User, Premeditation, Meditation, Neural Overclocking, Locus of Control, Pyromaniac, Cerebral Trauma

That leaves us with 3 feats to go. My last plan involved Paranoia, Neurology and Power Management, with Hypothermia and Conditioning as possible backups. Some have been doubting Paranoia and Neurology, and also Psychostatic Electricity has fans. Since I have no experience with it, I am willing to gamble on it.

So here is my current plan for the last 3 feats (remember that last feat will be taken while in DC, so any crafting-related feat will have to be taken before then):

Power Management (20), Neurology (22), Psychostatic Electricity (24)

Considering Paranoia or Conditioning instead of Neurology. I think Hypothermia just doesn't cut it, at least for this build.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Bump up - how far into the game you'll hit the level cap, playing on classic mode with semi-completionist approach?

 

[ItsChon]

Bump up - how far into the game you'll hit the level cap, playing on classic mode with semi-completionist approach?

Never played Classic but I'd assume you'd be pretty well leveled by the time you hit Deep Caverns.

 

[Piotrovitz]

How far is it, like 75% or more like 90% of the game?

 

[ciox]

It's very dependent on you completing side-quests, if you solve around half then you should hit the cap as you enter the final area, which is the last 15% of the game or so. That's with Classic, with Oddity you can easily enter that area at level 18 if you don't do sidequests properly.

 

[Parabalus]

How far is it, like 75% or more like 90% of the game?

I was level 25 on classic when I entered the penultimate chapter, that's 70%ish, without being extremely thorough. Oddity you likely won't be 25 before finishing DC.

Considering Paranoia or Conditioning instead of Neurology. I think Hypothermia just doesn't cut it, at least for this build.

I don't think Neurology is worth it for Tranquility, it's borderline even for Psychosis. I'd probably take Paranoia instead, but from the top of my head I don't recall if 140 PSI points opens up some better alpha strike combos than 125.

 

[Black Angel]

Thing is, since Trashos had a 3 AGI 3 DEX character, initiative bonus from Paranoia won't help at all. Maybe if he's aiming for reduced enemy's crit chance and extra detection, but even those can be gained from equipment instead. Personally, I've played a Tranquility + Meditation + Neurology char before, and I can testify that having 140 PSI points really help keeping me few steps ahead of any enemy because since I don't immediately exhaust my psi reserve, I can follow up my alpha strikes with excellent combos or even help me with timing specific spells at crucial moments. However, as hilfazer pointed out, with Fast Metabolism you may not really need extra max psi from Neurology, and FM isn't a feat I had because I had Doctor back then instead.

Meanwhile, I don't know if Conditioning is really worth it. Only 1% bonus resistance for every point in CON that's above 5 is rather... eh. Maybe if Trashos plans to wear medium armor, 13% extra mechanical, cold, and heat resistance would be nice addition to any decent medium armor he crafted, but still....

 

[ciox]

Don't forget that Conditioning's resistance bonus is "secondary resistance" so it doesn't really synergize with armor... instead it's something that synergizes with Stoicism and usage of Aegis/Morphine to try and reach 95% secondary mechanical resist.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

playing on classic mode

blergh

 

[Parabalus]

Oddity is masochism for replays, you need to comb every map and farm respawns to hit the cap.

Great for the virgin run though.