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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by Blaine, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Care to elaborate?
     
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  2. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    adding generic crafting -- and having it make the best items of all things -- just makes it another generic sci-fi setting rather than one with interesting lost artifacts to discover through exploration
    syko or whatever is right that there's no chance your character would ever produce anything on par with a master craftsman, let alone on par with a high-science industrial corponation. Duct taping things you barely understand together to make something you really barely understand? Sure.
     
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  3. jackofshadows Magister

    jackofshadows
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    But you craft mostly by use of existing high-tech components. High skill combine those implies talent/dedication - that's fine. The opposite route is the boring one.
     
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  4. thesecret1 Arcane

    thesecret1
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    Why would you ever invest points in crafting if it didn't give you the best gear? Argument about saving money is moot when the game throws money at you in such quantities that you'll never ever be short on it
     
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  5. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    We are talking about a game where the PC can end up taking on whole armies often by himself, right? For all its incline, in UR you are a bigtime hero/chosen one. So the point about the realism of being a master craftsman yourself is moot.

    Nevertheless, there ARE master craftsmen in the game who you can't replicate yourself. Leonie in Foundry with her metal processing. Bernard with his furnace Gloria can also make things you can't. The Protectorate can build dreadnaughts. One of the Freds at Camp Hathor built a crafting bench. There are also gadgets you can buy but can't craft, eg that thing sold by Coretech that turns robots against each other, the vanishing powder grenade sold by Oculus etc-etc.

    Blaine, you can buy 1000 Capacity energy shields at Coretech. Subject to random occurence, but if you visit often (and have unlocked highest tier) you will eventually find one. So with shields it is more like 2x you can craft, and you also need a feat to do that (Power Management). The point remains, just setting it straight.

    Btw, since the expansion there are cocktails (All In) and drugs (Hypercerebrix) that can also save crafting points. Still a huge investment, of course.

    The way I see it, instead of taking Mechanics and Electronics to build energy spears you can take a whole new psi school. Those skillpoints matter. Also, maxed Throwing or Traps is no laughing matter. Skillpoints matter.
     
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  6. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    I'm more interested to hear if someone has an idea of what crafting could look like in a game like Underrail.

    If you're going for versatility over power, then perhaps crafting gets you into 'utility' objects, and doesn't compete with retailers for the same items? E.g. you can only ever craft a taser, but you can only ever buy top range sniper rifles. So you're dependent on faction-gated shop access & exploration for the best weapons and dont' need crafting, but crafting investment might open up a litany of useful items to expand your situational response.

    In the current form, I actually suspect you can do fine on Dom without crafting, though combine that with no speedhack / merchant refresh and it might certainly be a very laborious playthrough. I certainly think adding more uniques that tangibly affect your play, like the unique glove/fists or Dragunov, would be good.

    I don't really think the realism argument matters that much if the gameplay is good.
     
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  7. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    uniques tend to be underwhelming(well, fists are nice, perhaps some sniper rifles(never played)

    poisons/survival are fine in such games. Ammunition/batteries too. Assembling high tech guns is weird.

    Only memorable item crafting I can think of in other games, are light saber assembly in kotor and some artifact in bg2 with dwarf smith
     
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  8. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
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    You god damn heathen duck

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
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    funny thing about arcanum is that many of those cool assembled weapons could be found somewhere in the world. Well, its cool at first, then its about rushing to steal them with fate point. Still its deterministic so one can only approve
     
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  10. Spark Mandriller Augur

    Spark Mandriller
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    Might be a good idea to make it so unique items can be upgraded with crafting skills. Wouldn't solve the problem of crafting being way too good, but it'd at least make uniques worthwhile instead of most of them being trash. And it wouldn't make crafting skills a waste of points the way buffing uniques to be really good would.
     
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  11. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I see your point, of course, but you seem to be ignoring mine—which is that the Underrail civilization never truly fell. Continuities to the laboratories, databases, and technologies of the past were never really severed.

    Beyond that, there are two further points to make. One is that high technology as we know it in the real world breaks down constantly, requires continual maintenance, and simply doesn't last. I would never expect a suit of powered armor, a laser rifle, a supercomputer, or anything of the sort to actually be functional after two hundred years languishing in a bunker as seen in Fallout, for example. You could argue that advancements in technology might greatly increase the robustness and longevity of such things, but so far the trend has been the opposite.

    The other point is that "finding lost artifacts" is just as common a sci-fi trope (and one borrowed from fantasy, at that) as any other well known trope, so your preference doesn't even hold water from a logical standpoint.

    No doubt, but some allowances must be made for the purposes of gameplay within a fantasy world. I'm not necessarily defending the fact that the protagonist can become a master pharmacist, biologist, gunsmith, armorsmith, tailor, and electronics expert, but 100% realism is rarely desirable outside of aircraft or orbital mechanics simulators.
     
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  12. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    Not opposed to this. I'd still rather make a .44 cal SMG and just mass fire explosive rounds.
     
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  13. CHEMS Learned

    CHEMS
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    That weapon was the shit.
     
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  14. Fenix Arcane Vatnik

    Fenix
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    The reason is the intended design - programmed obsolescense of everything for consumers use. Plastic details where simle steel should be - in meatgrinder for example, or in notebooks so their screens just can't held vertically after some time. Or german motors which today last 3-5 years, while 20 years ago ti was 10-15-20 years. Most of time it's not technology limitations.
     
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  15. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
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    In other news... Wow, burrowers are so much easier for tanks than they are for stealthy builds! Maybe I should employ tanking tactics against burrowers with my stealthy builds too, although I am not sure whether it will work for absolute glass cannons.
     
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  16. jackofshadows Magister

    jackofshadows
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    That's nice but nothing compared to the sight of poor stalkers which cannot bite through your armor. Dophamine through the roof is guaranteed.
     
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  17. Ol' Willy Arcane Zionist Agent

    Ol' Willy
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    It's kinda telling that most of the people agree on the point that unique firearms are not very useful.

    What may benefit the game is more unique "frames" for crafting instead. Some very old ones, experimental ones, cutting edge ones, etc. All of them would be available for crafting but with the caveat that they are very rare or maybe even exist in one place at all in the game. In return, they will have some interesting bonuses and feats.

    Then, the dev can stuff these frames in various donjons for player to hunt for.

    Rare OP items are dope of many RPGs while most of the loot in Underrail is rather generic.
     
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  18. Zeem Educated

    Zeem
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    The biggest problem of unique firearms is that they aren't actually that unique. They might use a caliber that's otherwise inaccessible to the weapon type or get a minor bonus equivalent to a single attachment, but they don't do anything radically different. They have no additional damage types or effects that they'd apply to targets, they have no improved synergy with any of the feats and they don't have any non-combat uses.
    Contrast and compare this to Sonocaster which I consider the best unique weapon in the game. It deals mech damage (uniquely for energy weapons) that partially bypasses armor (making it not shit against armored targets), passes through multiple targets (unique for all guns) and has several special attacks replacing your usual fare, one of which applies daze to all its targets. On top of that it has a pure utility feature - it can destroy rocks and weak walls without the use of TNT or a Jackhammer at a fraction of the weight and cost - making it useful to any character type, even the ones that can't use guns.
    If firearm uniques stood out half as much as Sonocaster there would be plenty of reasons to use them, I think.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  19. Butter Arcane

    Butter
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    Does anyone have a list of all the things that difficulty settings do? I remember seeing a list (maybe on the wiki) in the past but I can't find it.
     
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  20. PorkaMorka Arcane

    PorkaMorka
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    Dumb question:

    Did anyone here make their own UR character build based only on in-game information / official documentation?

    Or did everyone just copy someone else's build from the forums?

    Is it better to play on a lower difficulty and make your own build (which will inevitably be very sub-optimal and frustrating), or play on a higher difficulty and copy a build?
     
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  21. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
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    I like to experiment on my own with some stuff. Then there's times when I simply roleplay a character. Those are played on Normal Difficulty.
     
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  22. jackofshadows Magister

    jackofshadows
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    Depends on whether you yourself like to make new builds and experiment with them or not. If you got at least some RPG background then you absolutely can get through normal/hard blindly even if your build will end up to be indeed, sub-optimal. After you finish the game once you will know most of the skill threshholds and other such stuff so if you like to make builds yourself in general you could try DOM on your own, it's entirely possible. But if you don't like that sort of thing then just look up for builds beforehand/make adjustments. After all, the game is quite big.

    I mean I don't really like to experiment with builds, rather tune them as it was for me with card games but I had no choice when Underrail came out. So I had my fun anyway but then when I got back to the game to try the expansion I looked for meta etc and turn DOM on. The experience turned out to be much better for me to tell the truth. I was focused on the game itself and not thinking all the time about starting over. And after that run I familiarised myself enough with all that stuff so I made a few my own builds for playing on DOM. Not to mention hanging out in this very thread helps a lot :)

    Just don't go full meta right away, leave at least things beyond the build to explore by yourself.
     
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  23. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
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    The game is piss easy after you figure out the first parts.
     
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  24. Hex Guest

    Hex
    I just experimented with the hard difficulty. Dominating is possible even without being fully optimized and min-maxed. Just enjoy the game, trial and error is all part of it. Normal is quite easy for the first time and very forgiving. So is hard, but it might require a little bit more thought and meta knowledge.
     
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  25. normie Arcane Patron Zionist Agent

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    Insert Title Here
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