Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Discussion in 'Underrail' started by Blaine, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    17,727
    Location:
    Jersey for now
    I was looking just now at Chop Chop, the robot. It's amazing how much fear you can imagine from that thing.
     
    • incline incline x 2
    ^ Top  
  2. HeatEXTEND Cipher Patron

    HeatEXTEND
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,644
    Location:
    Nedderlent
    Play on normal and have fun; restart after 2-3 hours having had a taste of the mechanics, as is tradition.
     
    ^ Top  
  3. lukaszek the determinator Patron

    lukaszek
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    9,609
    i assume that people still watching this thread create their own builds. And keep watching in case someone comes up with something interesting to get back to the game.

    Even if you do your own research, you will likely feel that you are wasting your time on normal and restart on higher diff first few hours in. Unless you go completely blind, like not reading feats in advance and plan stats ahead of time i guess?
     
    ^ Top  
  4. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,156
    I make my own builds. I read others' builds as well to get ideas. Sometimes my builds end up similar to what I have read, sometimes nothing like it. Different builds play differently, and once you are experienced nobody can tell you how you want to play the game.

    The fist builds alone.... I have played 4 of them, 3 were very strong, and there are more builds to it as well. There is a crazy amount of good builds you can come up with in this game, and also a crazy amount of bad builds as well.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Tygrende Savant

    Tygrende
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    711
    I'd say stealth is stronger than crafting - a build with stealth but no crafting would be overall stronger than the other way around. Temporal manipulation is a strong contender.

    Mercantile should net more money in the long run than crafting just from selling reef glider and buying jet skis for cheap. Repair kits are no longer that cheap. Using disassemble to repair items is an exploit and still doesn't make the feat worth taking.

    That's no longer possible without power management, which means spending a feat and having 7 INT, much more than just the crafting skill.

    Found/bought shields have also been buffed - it's not that uncommon to find efficent shields with around 800 capacity now.

    That's not to mention several unique items that are strictly superior to crafted gear or at least provide what crafting cannot - CAU armor, biohazard boots, vathosphore armor, tesla suit, spec ops helmet, trapper hat, red dragon, Balor's hammer, XAL, etc.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. Tygrende Savant

    Tygrende
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    711
    This is not true for a lot of what can be considered "crafting" and there are exceptions. If we consider something like modern firearms, a lot of the most influential inventors were also good shooters because it takes a good shooter to know what works and what doesn't. Jerry Miculek for example hold various world records and has also invented several firearm modifications. It doesn't take a lifetime of practice to make a rifle grip, it takes a lifetime of shooting to know what makes a grip good. Kalashnikov had no formal engineering education and did not spent most of his life as a firearm designer prior to the AK. Though Underrail doesn't model that either since there's no relation between combat and crafting skills.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • No No x 1
    ^ Top  
  7. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Tigranes
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,988
    For first playthroughs, I'd definitely recommend stealth as the one trick to make life easier. Underrail can be pretty janky and frustrating the first time.

    For a Make-your-own experimental build on Hard, no skill is necessary, though you'll likely get the crafting bug for the second playthrough.

    I think I'd play with the in-game speed on max (+ button) first time and then speedhack after that.
     
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    ^ Top  
  8. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,156
    ~1000 in the Coretech shop (highest tier unlocked, multiple visits required, but I find one like that in every playthrough -best one was 1100)
    I do not think I have been that lucky with looted shields. I think ~500 Capacity is the best I have looted.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Jason Liang Arcane

    Jason Liang
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    6,835
    Location:
    Crait
    Which skills to take and not take should be pretty obvious almost immediately (based on your stats focus), and the game gives you an extremely generous amount of skill points.

    It's feat selection (and order) that has traps and gems.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. HeatEXTEND Cipher Patron

    HeatEXTEND
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2017
    Messages:
    2,644
    Location:
    Nedderlent
    This is a bunch of bullshit. You can just read what the stats do, play for a bit, restart as is tradition, and play the fucking game. Research? Difficulty fiddling? None needed! Amazing!:hero:
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    9,578
    Location:
    Turn right after Alpha Centauri
    You are missing the point. Yes sure maybe a few people can get enough skill at some point be good enough at both but you are not DOING both at the same time. Furthermore there is a difference between someone who learns shooting, something that is not particularly dangerous or strenuous, and someone ADVENTURING for extented periods in a post apocalyptic world full of terrible dangers and horrors trying to prevent a major catastrophe. Coming up, designing, testing and improving the design takes weeks if not months maybe even years of dedicatated crafting, not 10 seconds watching a bar to go from 0 to 100%. You are NOT running around all over the place doing most extreme missions AND craft all this masterful stuff which need multiple fields of science and engineering to accomplish while doing these designs, anyone who thinks that this is not outlandish is living in lala land. Even just mastering ONE field of science and engineering takes years of continuous dedication. Oh and before you get any ideas, I am aware that cRPGs do not have to be 100% realistic, just realistic enough in sufficient amount of areas to not completely break suspension of disbelief. Overall Underrail does a decent enough job at that but crafting is for sure not one of those areas.
    Of course my main criticism is not really adressed by this since there is NO justification for there not be other master craftsmen in the world who are as good if not better than you, zero zilch nada.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
    ^ Top  
  12. ciox Savant

    ciox
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Messages:
    945
    I mean Underrail does simulate that to some degree, if you invest in Intelligence you will craft better things sooner, but be a weaker fighter.
    It's just that the balance is skewed towards you eventually crafting awesome things even without heavy initial investment, because skill points and other bonuses will slowly add up even for a very stupid character.
    This freedom makes the game better in the end, the fact that you don't encounter too many hard caps like "must be level X to use" or "must have intelligence Y to cast" in the game, allowing you to mix specializations, is part of why people have so much fun with it.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,156
    So, it is indeed possible that neither Coral nor Booth are in the game. 2nd playthrough where this is happening to me. Too bad, because I restart the game until Coral is absent (from SGS docks) in hope that Booth will be present in Core City.

    There is a new... place for Ghostface to be found as random loot. New at least for me. I had never seen it there before, but lately I find it often. I will let you discover it for yourselves, it is not hidden.
     
    • Rage Rage x 1
    ^ Top  
  14. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873,206
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I wholly disagree. AR tin can with crafting skills is absurdly strong, even after the ver. 1.0.4 invention of the "unconditional special attack," transparently intended solely to nerf AR burst attacks (which was needed, as the damage was insane). Stealth with crafting is just as strong, in very different ways. Both have their weaknesses.

    Stealth without crafting would be less strong than either. In my latest playthrough, I very clearly remember that crafting specific fine-tuned SMGs with crafting-maximized damage and precise AP cost thresholds and tradeoffs took my build not only to the next level, but beyond. Good luck buying the perfect complementary gear for your character sheet plan without crafting skills—you'll never find it. The game hasn't changed enough in six months (or since pre-release for that matter) for this to have altered substantially.

    Less than half the capacity, and not as efficient nor its frequency thresholds as high—the crafted one therefore being about three times better. You're right though, that's still a step up from crafted being five times better.

    I mentioned previously that the gap between crafted and bought/looted gear has narrowed a bit as the game's been updated—but at the same time, the relative investment into crafting skills needed to hit keystone thresholds has been reduced by an increased level cap, crafting benches, and hypercerebrix (I personally never spammed pre-nerf Junkyard Surprise to buff crafting, that clearly verges into exploit territory).

    So yes, found/bought gear isn't complete rubbish now, but the investment needed to craft supergear is overall lower than it once was pre-expansion.

    That stuff is all well and good, but may require meta knowledge to plan a build around (Balor's Hammer being the prime example), be entirely missed during a playthrough (Spec Ops helmet, which is a stealth-based item you'll ironically only see if you bungle and alert the base), be acquired near the end of progression, are highly specific gimmicks, etc.

    I have noticed that more unique items have been added in the latest update and others have been tweaked. That really doesn't alter the overall crafting power dynamic, though.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. Tygrende Savant

    Tygrende
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    711
    The ability to start combat on your own terms, the AP/MP boost from contraction, cooldown reductions from limited temporal increment and the ability to essentially gain an extra free turn (with all the AP bonuses and buffs included) with stasis is stronger than slightly lower AP cost and 2 more shots in a burst. Not to say the latter is not strong because it is, but it's nothing more than a DPS increase, which has nothing on the sheer tactical utility of stealth alone. No crafting builds can also take an advantage of unique guns, which, while inferior to crafted guns, make the difference smaller. I'd rather have an SMG build using uniques than can stealth rather than the other way around. ARs and SMGs already have crazy damage outputs, they will notice the damage decrease less than having no ability to turn invisble.

    Tanking is situationally better than stealth, but all in all a build with stealth has a major advantage through the whole game over a build that does not. A lot of tanking is done with non-crafted gear anyways - cans should not leave home without their tesla suit and CAU armor.

    Crafting is still up there as one of the strongest things the player can and should invest in, but it's not the strongest one anymore. The gap between found/looted stuff is not as big as it used to be, both stealth and temporal manipulation are a much bigger no-brainer investment that makes every build an order of magnitude stronger. Except pure psi - ironically, it doesn't benefit from TM as much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    ^ Top  
  16. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,873,206
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I'll give you that—I haven't run a tank since before those armor suits were added. Since I played Stealth Spec Ops SMG last time (and spear riot armor guy before that), I'm about due for a tin can playthrough.

    I despise Temporal Manipulation and will never touch it. Not only is it clearly contextually overpowered—as evidenced by its a la carte inclusion in so many meme builds that often have nothing else to do with psionics—but in a titanic act of irony, it was used as the excuse to nerf the rest of the psi skills.

    The psi skill nerf was odious in two ways: 1.) it's mechanically obnoxious and introduces annoying micromanagement, and 2.) it makes psi powers feel (and function) less like futuristic mental powers and more like Vancian magic spells from medieval fantasy games.

    I hate it, and anyone who defends it is an asshole. I can give Styg a pass because, as the creator, he's way too close to his own creation to judge it properly, in much the same way that it's inadvisable for someone to copy edit his own novel. The rest of you have no excuse and are just terrible people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    9,578
    Location:
    Turn right after Alpha Centauri
    To be fair it is not even a good Vancian system, if I had to make a comparison I would compare this version to a castrated and gutted 4th ED D&D and this version was a massive :decline: compared to ANY of the other editions and was hated by most for good reason. It also did not really change anything of real substance apart from pure PSI but added lots of boring, idiotic and utterly uneccessary tedium.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Trashos Arcane

    Trashos
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,156
    I mean, that's most of the point. TM is basically psi for non-psionics.
    I love it myself. I think the game plays much better with it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • cuck cuck x 1
    • Shit Shit x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    12,224
    Skill points are tight for many builds if you take all the needed (all checks) social skills.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  20. jackofshadows Magister

    jackofshadows
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2019
    Messages:
    2,971
    Location:
    Space
    The legacy build is there, why the fuck do you need to bring the psi nerf up yet again?
     
    • not sure if serious not sure if serious x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    9,578
    Location:
    Turn right after Alpha Centauri
    The legacy has none of the newer content which is not insubstantial.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Major_Blackhart Codexia Lord Sodom Patron

    Major_Blackhart
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    17,727
    Location:
    Jersey for now
    The fact that the pre-release thread started in August of 2010, 11 years ago, and we're still going on about it, shows how awesome this game is and how dedicated a developer Styg and co. really are.

    You bitches are just bitches.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • No No x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  23. Tygrende Savant

    Tygrende
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    711
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny x 4
    • incline x 2
    • Prestigious x 1
    • retadred x 1
    • (autism) x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    9,578
    Location:
    Turn right after Alpha Centauri
    People liking a game that was changed for the worse and fans critizising for it, shocker.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  25. Spark Mandriller Augur

    Spark Mandriller
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    411
    I'm okay with the innervation nerf but the barrel fires are what get me. Like half the humans in the game now have their own fire so they get huge resistances to cryokinesis/orb for free for no other reason than fuck metathermics. I just wanted to freeze things.
     
    • Balanced Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.