Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
News Content Gallery About Donate Discord Contact
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
I’m in the same boat right now, hard, oddity and haven’t played since alpha. Working my through a psi-free smg build and wondering if I should have included TM or something. Level 14 and definitely not feeling strong, lunatics and iron heads can beat me unless I want to expend a lot of resources on meaningless tunnel fights.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,873,680
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
I’m in the same boat right now, hard, oddity and haven’t played since alpha. Working my through a psi-free smg build and wondering if I should have included TM or something. Level 14 and definitely not feeling strong, lunatics and iron heads can beat me unless I want to expend a lot of resources on meaningless tunnel fights.

Nearly every build experiences growing pains around that time. The sniper build I just finished played had me questioning my build choices at around the same point, but by level 19-20, I was feeling strong. By the late 20s, I felt invincible (not entirely accurate, as virtually all Serpentborn psi users could kill me if they landed just one ability—disabled and nuked).

As I mentioned during our discussion about the build you're now playing, I played a very similar SMG/Spec Ops/Expertise build on Hard, and by the later game it was one of the most powerful-feeling builds I'd ever run. Nor do I recall having to get too cheesy/meta-y with it.

Possibly the W2C nerf was targeted specifically at silenced SMGs, and they now suck. I wouldn't be surprised. If so, then I apologize for leading you astray, although strictly speaking they're not necessary to the build; but not being able to use them reliably to "ease up" an area's enemy complement would definitely up the difficulty ante, most especially in Ironhead territory.

With Ironheads specifically, literally just come back later. 14 is slightly early to try to take on that gang anyway in my opinion, especially with that particular build. For a sniper build, Ironheads were much easier earlier on.

Oh yeah and by the way, Lunatics were excruciating for that SMG build when I played it. Sorry. That's a feature of the build. You have to be strong enough to obliterate them by the bushel before they become barely tolerable to fight.
 
Last edited:

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
Possibly the W2C nerf was targeted specifically at silenced SMGs, and they now suck. I wouldn't be surprised. If so, then I apologize for leading you astray, although strictly speaking they're not necessary to the build; but not being able to use them reliably to "ease up" an area's enemy complement would definitely up the difficulty ante, most especially in Ironhead territory.

Hah, you big softy. While I appreciate the sense of responsibility you felt when reading my post, I have to tell you something about myself: I love slow-burn builds. In the, albeit much simpler, gameplay of Fallout 1 and 2, I will often play painstaking hybrid builds that don't come into their own until the last ~20% or so of the game. And then, it's oh so glorious.

For a combatfag like myself, slow burn builds have the added benefit of making a larger portion of the game actually challenging. Yes, the payoff of ultimately being able to stomp on most things is important, but I never want to reach that point too early or a game becomes dull.

I can't say I'm really questioning the build at this point, I just hit 14 and got Commando and have enough foresight to see where it's going and how strong it can be. I think there's a bit of surprise though because I've played/followed underrail from before and through the eventual release, back when SMGs really were OP. Tracking lens (or whatever) added crit onto burst, lots of feats applied to SMGs/burst that don't know. My confidence isn't actually shaken, but I'm... lets call it psi-curious. My second (and probably last, tbh) playthrough will probably be a wielder of cave magic.

Anyway, appreciate you sharing your experience with Ironheads and Lunatics. When I completely curb stomped Depot B at level 7 or whatever I knew I was on the right track, but where I am in the narrative and level-wise, these garbage-tier mobs are doing a great job of reminding me that I ain't shit yet. And that's good, it's why I like Styg & Vince's schools of design. Make the player eat shit for a *minute* before you give them that sweet sweet dopamine drip of power stomp.

edit: only silencer I've found so far applies to 5 mm, so I keep my roided-up Jackal handy when I need to eliminate isolated scout-type assets - practically that's cameras and burrower spawn, up to this point. Are you saying that W2C 5 mm is more viable than I'm considering (usually only carry regular 5 mm for this purpose), or that silencers for larger caliber barrels become available later?
 
Last edited:

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
3,431
Level 14 and definitely not feeling strong, lunatics and iron heads can beat me unless I want to expend a lot of resources on meaningless tunnel fights.
For what it's worth, the game has become so big and open that you might not care about resources past Depot A at all means if you want to blast through something like Ironheads somewhat early - go for it, otherwise it could be too easy later on instead.

Regarding psi - while I admire the puristic fetish of some people around here, of course go for TM, you're in perhaps ideal spot for that right now. Future run wise - hybrid builds are feeling really fun imo both tinkering with and actually playing like TC sniper for example.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,873,680
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
edit: only silencer I've found so far applies to 5 mm, so I keep my roided-up Jackal handy when I need to eliminate isolated scout-type assets - practically that's cameras and burrower spawn, up to this point. Are you saying that W2C 5 mm is more viable than I'm considering (usually only carry regular 5 mm for this purpose), or that silencers for larger caliber barrels become available later?

A silenced 5mm SMG loaded with W2C can (or could) kill any non-boss tin can in one or two bursts once the build takes off. Here is a screenshot (with JHP loaded, which you of course should use versus unarmored opponents rather than W2C) of my level 30 SMG guy, his actual silenced 5mm Jaguar, and the derived combat stats.

Note that the 34-52 figure (that's per round, silenced) doesn't include the +20 Expertise bonus, the Opportunist bonus, the Blindsiding bonus, etc. This thing can shit holes through tin cans like a fat baby blasting diarrhea through a sheet. In fact, I even opted for more accuracy (forward grip) rather than any other attachment.

Finally, keep in mind that with Commando and Spec Ops, the bursts cost 16 AP each, so with Adrenaline Shot alone that's 4 + 1 = 5 bursts per turn, plus a reload if wearing Bullet Strap Belt.

ss+(2022-04-22+at+02.35.52).png
 
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
4,495
Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Finally finished the game, this time making the effort to do Mutagen puzzle instead of cheating past Tchort. That fight is actually too easy if you do puzzle and sneak around TNT'ing the tanks, I was a non-crit chem pistolier with some TM, a good build bnut not amazing, was able to kill each tentacle in a round sequentially, and they attacked separately so I didn't take a single hit. Someone can tell Yaz he can unblock me now kek.

Shouldn't have pussied out by taking TM in the last three levels, up till them I was psiless chad. Chem pistol seems pretty straightforward, you can go max DEX with versaility feat using melee skill. Then all the rest of your attributes are optional, though 6 PER is still good for aimed shot and INT is good for crafting and stuff.

Unrelated screenshot
Screenshot_14.png
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
Oh, so energy shields are super powerful huh? Well, better to find this out at 16 than 26….

to think I went through depot A, innumerable burrower nests, lurkers, ironheads, auto turrets, crawlers, death stalkers, and the beast without one. Turns out I wasn’t playing on hard, I was playing on stupid.

so I’m 16, have about 65 electronics, and built an efficient double medium frequency shield. And it’s amazing. Medium frequency is the best, right? Since these things naturally skew high freq and bullets are med and psi med-low and medium freq. gens. have decent low band coverage already a 2x med seemed a no brainer.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
lukaszek for looks or function? I kinda like the lightning egg look of medium. I showed up for the stats, stayed bc of the look.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
17,957
Location
Jersey for now
I've always loved double low because knives can't do shit nigga!!!
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
I think the net impact of me discovering energy shields is that quickload will be replaced by increased consumption of batteries.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
10,237
cant say im experienced shield user since I prefer to not get hit in first place.
Shield always got very high in quite decent range. Meanwhile slow attacks never get fully stopped, going double low works best against them though. Sniper shots are fast so will get stopped well by any shield. Other big attack that might get problematic is crossbow that is slow too
Same reason I like super steel sheets in tactical armors.
Anyway shields dont weight much, you can just carry each type
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
17,957
Location
Jersey for now
It's one of those things that made me wish that the different chemical pistols were used by enemies, not just the acid one. I mean yeah they're rare and such, but DAMN dude, coming across a balanced kill-team spec'd with a few of those, a crossbow, Electro Stun Pistol gunner, a Sledge Hammerer, plus psionics school of Thought Control?

It seems like something that someone very powerful would send against you as a final fuck you for crossing them.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
7,104
Location
Crait
I didn't really bother with shields in my playthrough either.

PSI is just absurdly OP.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
7,104
Location
Crait
On DOMINATING I cleared the Ironheads walking to Core City after Depot A.

Also I cleared Lunatic Mall at level 8. Also on DOMINATING.

PSI made 95% of the combat a complete joke after Depot A.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
that doesn't sound.. fun
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
7,104
Location
Crait

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
10,317
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
 
Last edited:

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
7,104
Location
Crait
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
You can find the build I used as well as screenshots.

I researched my build, but I didn't "read up" on the game. I walked to Core City because I was trying to walk to Rail Crossing from SGS through the area controlled by the Lurkers. Then I was just scouting Upper Underrail from Core City by walking along the train tracks and came across Lunatic Mall, thinking it was a side area - I had no idea it was a close to endgame area.

The way I play, I like to kill everything in an area before moving on to the next. As for tactics, I just used my PSI skills. If there were too many enemies, I figured out how to restealth (versus the Ironheads) but normal restealthing doesn't even work in Lunatic Mall.

If you can't believe I cleared Lunatic Mall on DOMINATING at level 8 with my PSI/ Versatility/ Ambush character, it just means you have more to learn about playing PSI tactics. I have my screenshot as proof. You asked my citation, that's my citation. Can you clear Lunatic Mall with a level 8 Tin Can AR? Then try to figure out how to clear it with a level 8 character. How else do you learn to improve, except by challenging yourself to do so?
 
Last edited:

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
300
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,008
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
300
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.

Thx. Although those lists are far from complete. I'll picked may more locks than there are listed there.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
5,478
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom