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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,618
Medium frequency is the best, right?
you might not have noticed yet, but all 3 types got different visuals. Pick one that you find most pleasing to your eyes
go double low
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,761
lukaszek for looks or function? I kinda like the lightning egg look of medium. I showed up for the stats, stayed bc of the look.
 

agris

Arcane
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Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,761
I think the net impact of me discovering energy shields is that quickload will be replaced by increased consumption of batteries.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
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Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,618
cant say im experienced shield user since I prefer to not get hit in first place.
Shield always got very high in quite decent range. Meanwhile slow attacks never get fully stopped, going double low works best against them though. Sniper shots are fast so will get stopped well by any shield. Other big attack that might get problematic is crossbow that is slow too
Same reason I like super steel sheets in tactical armors.
Anyway shields dont weight much, you can just carry each type
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
It's one of those things that made me wish that the different chemical pistols were used by enemies, not just the acid one. I mean yeah they're rare and such, but DAMN dude, coming across a balanced kill-team spec'd with a few of those, a crossbow, Electro Stun Pistol gunner, a Sledge Hammerer, plus psionics school of Thought Control?

It seems like something that someone very powerful would send against you as a final fuck you for crossing them.
 

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,336
Location
Crait
On DOMINATING I cleared the Ironheads walking to Core City after Depot A.

Also I cleared Lunatic Mall at level 8. Also on DOMINATING.

PSI made 95% of the combat a complete joke after Depot A.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
 
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Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,336
Location
Crait
that doesn't sound.. fun

He is either lying or not being honest about how he did it. Lunatic Mall has a lot of high level enemies. Same with the Ironheads, a single enemy can murder anyone that low level in one single round. The only way for him to beat it that early is either not having played on Dominating or having read up on the cheesiest tactics and save scummed the shit out of the game. Either way, don't take him too seriously.
You can find the build I used as well as screenshots.

I researched my build, but I didn't "read up" on the game. I walked to Core City because I was trying to walk to Rail Crossing from SGS through the area controlled by the Lurkers. Then I was just scouting Upper Underrail from Core City by walking along the train tracks and came across Lunatic Mall, thinking it was a side area - I had no idea it was a close to endgame area.

The way I play, I like to kill everything in an area before moving on to the next. As for tactics, I just used my PSI skills. If there were too many enemies, I figured out how to restealth (versus the Ironheads) but normal restealthing doesn't even work in Lunatic Mall.

If you can't believe I cleared Lunatic Mall on DOMINATING at level 8 with my PSI/ Versatility/ Ambush character, it just means you have more to learn about playing PSI tactics. I have my screenshot as proof. You asked my citation, that's my citation. Can you clear Lunatic Mall with a level 8 Tin Can AR? Then try to figure out how to clear it with a level 8 character. How else do you learn to improve, except by challenging yourself to do so?
 
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0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
504
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,278
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
504
Location
Not here
Playing expedition rn and I got a couple of questions:

1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

3. Anything in particular that I need to do in the Nexus of Technology? I searched all floors but didn't find anything special (can't go to certain rooms due to lack of relevant skill)..
https://www.stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skills

Individual skill pages should have checks listed.

Thx. Although those lists are far from complete. I'll picked may more locks than there are listed there.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,761
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
1. What's the highest check for any skill? My used skills are almost all at 200+ now and I'm wondering if I'm just wasting points by now?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165

This guide tells you exactly how to min-max every skill for pretty much every situation, including highest skill checks (and gradations of same; for example, you may wish to save points and pass up on the hardest locked containers and doors). It also describes each situation, so it contains SPOILERS.

Always max your primary damage skill, or skills, in the case of psi. On some builds, you may also wish to max Stealth, for broken-tier sneaking and/or to pad out Snipe damage.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.

Well, skills are not really GURPS-like... There is no difference between values below/above 100. Skills are just flat numbers that nominally increase by 5 each level for the PC and NPCs alike. It's a linear system that could be scaled up to any arbitrarily high value for skills and levels. Relative power of characters is checked in calculations involving 2 actors and PC-only skillchecks are roughly level-based, with high base ability scores allowing the player to outpace the level curve.

Combat skills and some others are compared against the adversary's skills. Attack/defense skill ratio is the core of the calculations, but higher skills often also help overcome other modifiers on top of the skill ratio like agris pointed out.
Ranged/aoe attacks vs evasion, melee attacks vs dodge, stealth and pickpocketing vs detection, trap detection vs traps, resolve vs mental debuffs and fortitude for physical ones. Those derived stats are basically just auto-leveled skills. You can't accidentally over-invest in combat skills since damage-dealing skills always increase your damage and you would have to be far above enemy skills to hit the cap on random rolls. Basic (skills only) calculation for ranged & melee precision -> https://underrail.info/junk/precision.html

One-sided skillchecks (dialog checks, crafting, lock opening) reflect the level of the content/zone, but that's not a strict rule. The devs adjust skillchecks to whatever they feel is appropriate. 5 skill points a level plus 10 extra points at first level. That's the basis of all level/skillcheck balancing.
 

0wca

Learned
Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
504
Location
Not here
2. What do the numbers of the skills even mean? Is it like GURPS where there's a percentile roll under the skill number? If so, what does 200 skill points do that 100 doesn't?

I’m not an expert, but yes I believe it is GURPS-like, ie your skill values are nominally on a 100% basis. What >100% gives you, or really just high values in general, is the ability to overcome significant maluses to your roll. For weapon skills this is related to lighting, range, weapon str requirements, opponent dodge/evasion, and any debuffs you may have. This generally holds true for stealth too, with the addition of competing vs enemy detection.

For technical skills like LP, H it’s just that the dynamic range goes above 100. The only malus you may encounter is due to debuffs. Conceptionally, for these skills and persuasion intimidation chemistry mechanical etc, the effective challenge ceiling is a bit under 200 and values over 100 just represent increased difficulty. I think styg did it this way because it made balancing skills easier by keeping a common skill point pool. If non-combat skills only went up to 100, they would need a distinct SP pool to reflect the increase value per point.

Well, skills are not really GURPS-like... There is no difference between values below/above 100. Skills are just flat numbers that nominally increase by 5 each level for the PC and NPCs alike. It's a linear system that could be scaled up to any arbitrarily high value for skills and levels. Relative power of characters is checked in calculations involving 2 actors and PC-only skillchecks are roughly level-based, with high base ability scores allowing the player to outpace the level curve.

Combat skills and some others are compared against the adversary's skills. Attack/defense skill ratio is the core of the calculations, but higher skills often also help overcome other modifiers on top of the skill ratio like agris pointed out.
Ranged/aoe attacks vs evasion, melee attacks vs dodge, stealth and pickpocketing vs detection, trap detection vs traps, resolve vs mental debuffs and fortitude for physical ones. Those derived stats are basically just auto-leveled skills. You can't accidentally over-invest in combat skills since damage-dealing skills always increase your damage and you would have to be far above enemy skills to hit the cap on random rolls. Basic (skills only) calculation for ranged & melee precision -> https://underrail.info/junk/precision.html

One-sided skillchecks (dialog checks, crafting, lock opening) reflect the level of the content/zone, but that's not a strict rule. The devs adjust skillchecks to whatever they feel is appropriate. 5 skill points a level plus 10 extra points at first level. That's the basis of all level/skillcheck balancing.

So they're basically just two numbers compared to each other for opposed checks?

So basically I should always put all points into skills that have opposed checks and less in one-sided skills?

I've got like an effective 150+ for lockpicking and mercantile and the highest checks I'm getting are in the 110 range, so I think it's safe to say I don't have to put extra points in?
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
So I just got thru Deep Caverns and Tchort on a single playthrough this Sunday. I think it took about two hours. I completely avoided the worms area, but still managed to read all the e-mails and messages in the residential block. I didn't realize, but apparently my Tin Can AR has enough strength to easily pass even harder tests with a little effort and a powerfist. So there you go.

Tchort I did three times, but I only activated my shield on the third one. Essentially I was fucking around and seeing if I could destroy or take out his limbs easily, etc.

Edit: So I got the Sormirbaeren slide and apparently even tho I destroyed their fragment I didn't beat defeat them. Despite me killing Magnus and their lead witch doctor (I left the bone guy and their blind guy alone). However, I only went after them before I descended to Acorn, and the remaining supplies for the expedition were down to nothing.

Did I wait too long or fail to meet the condition of defeating them another way?
 
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ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,278
I didn't think Deep Caverns would go that fast with the recent changes to components and power rerouting, damn.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,761
Expeditions is giving me soul clap. I really want to dive into the lore but the relentless resource drain of the encounters and frustrating nature of the jet ski encounters (whether wyrms or humans) just makes it feel like a slog. And my guy is a ducking pro, he can end 6 ironheads in a single turn if he wants, but the style of encounters in Expedition seem to promote resource drain and fatigue.

not to mention the native fights. They are orthogonal to my character build.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
I didn't think Deep Caverns would go that fast with the recent changes to components and power rerouting, damn.

Well to get the gate part without actually going all over the place I essentially got strength 12 and wrenched out one or two of the parts of the previous gate.
 

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