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Moonspeak Undertale - friendship/genocide RPG

lightbane

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Dec 27, 2008
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/391540

It has been two years, but this game has been finally completed. The trailer certainly shows the game has been improved art compared with the original demo. If what I remember from the demo is correct, the game is a quirky jrpg that may be fun to play for a while. Also, assuming things have not changed much since the demo, it should be possible to do a 100% pacifist playthrough, a standard jrpg "kill everything in the name of peace" path, or even an "EEVIL path" if you want to do so. Either way, multiple endings are a given.
Knowing this, wouldn't that make this game technically a CRPG in spite of its JRPG elements? :troll:

In any case, it may turn out to be interesting for the Codex's resident weaboo users.
 
Unwanted

Fag Disabler

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Won't buy it unless it comes out on GOG but it looks very neat. This seems like it is exactly the kind of oddball unconventional experience that only indie games can provide. Loved Lisa and now this comes out, good times.
 

rrc2soft

Educated
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Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
I have played it for like 3~4 hours, and the "Earthbound/Mother" vibes are strong in this one. Which is normal, considering that the author made a hack of earthbound some years ago.
Anyway, the humor is nice (unless you hate dogs, they are everywhere!!!), there is something new in every screen, and the bullet-hell defense mechanism keep things interesting. Unless you are trying a pacifist run, then IT IS HELL, SO MANY GAME OVERS (but I suck at bullet-hell games, so I deserve it).
 

Ayreos

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So, Steam has 357 positive reviews and a single negative one that's a wall of text on why the game is just so good. A game that would look low quality for even the NES or the Game Boy Color is unanimously loved by steam reviewers. It has puzzles and a very simple bullet hell mechanic.
That should be enough of a proof people don't really care for choice, quality, depth or even art. They just want to feel good about themselves. Wanting choice is just wanting to be praised for those choices by the game, since the choices in this game are the typical black and white morality fluff, in which "killing is bad" and "everyone should get along". Now have fun having dozens of game overs giving the other cheek to attackers. (You'll feel good about it!)

To be less cynical, the emotional aspect of the game is handled egregiously, with an early boss of the game virtually sacrificing themselves for you (unless you're a pacifist fine with being physically attacked by hysterical strangers). With that the game will work on your heartstrings in different ways, and add some plot twists to keep it fresh, no different from your first Earthbound experience. The mechanics are also entertaining enough, and using bullet-hell gameplay to give character to the enemies was a great call.

It still goes in my garbage pile, though, i'm old enough to not need pandering by a poor-looking puzzle-bullet hell game. Right, this might be why Portal is so popular too. Lame puzzle gameplay, but those sweet, sweet emotions when the ending song plays...!
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
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I backed this on Kickstarter, but won't have time to play it. If anyone wants to give it a spin (Crooked Bee?), let me know and I'll pass along my key.

[EDIT: Taken by lighbtbane. Let us know how the game is!]
 
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lightbane

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Wait, are you offering a key? Gimme gimme! I mean, I would be interested to have a chance to play this game, if you don't mind please.
 
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lightbane

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So I played it for a while. Indeed it was inspired by Earthbound. That, or the developer took acid and LSD for his "inspiration". Also, somehow I managed to get a date with an skeleton... Then end up being rejected anyway. I guess that's truly a new low for failing. :negative:
 
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Crooked Bee

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Seems amusing (and the writing can be pretty funny), but a bit too simplistic so far. I've only played for less than an hour though.

Still, I appreciate the unorthodox premise, and I imagine a fully pacifist run may get pretty tricky to pull out.
 

lightbane

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Well, I finally managed to finish it. It's a short game, I believe around 6-8 hours long, although that's probably necessary, because the game is intended to be played multiple times (both to get different endings and to see stuff you missed by doing a certain thing instead of another). Definitively quite fun and quirky, its bullet hell combat gets harder and harder as you progress and even change mechanics to surprise you. Curiously enough, some of the enemies who have the most powerful/difficult bullet hell attacks suspiciously resemble witches and mages. Is that a reference to something perhaps? :M

In addition, the references to Earthbound and Mother are not coincidental: there's one character who seems to be a stand-in for Lucas from Mother 3, complete with stripped shirt and clumsiness (funnily enough, he mentions he knows the protagonist is a kid because you have a stripped shirt as well). :P

And then at a certain point the game makes its own interpretation of a very famous scene from Earthbound, to the point of having identical dialogue. Needless to say, it is quite nuts and unexpected when that happens.

Anyway, the game is nothing revolutionary, but it is quite fun. Now it's time to do a second playthrough, this time through a "full-pacifist" route. Hopefully my patience and determination will be strong enough to make it to the end.
 

rrc2soft

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Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
I just finished the game with the true "full pacifist" ending.
After finishing the first time without killing anyone, you have to load the game again and finish a couple of quests with Undyne and the dinosaur scientist (in that order). After that, the true ending final sequence will start.
Before the game truly ends (after beating the final boss), be sure to visit all the towns (very Mother-esque). And after finishing the game, run it again.
Overall, I liked the quirkiness of the game, the soundtrack, and the right amount of I AM TIRED OF DYING PLEASE LET ME FINISH THIS BATTLE ALREADY and feeling of success. It also keeps the game mechanisms fresh and interesting. On the other hand, the end is extremely sweet with a bomb of sugar and an unhealthy dose of syrup on top. But I still liked the game a lot.
 

lightbane

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I got the True Good/Pacifist ending as well. That one was practically a love letter to the Earthbound series, jrpgs and videogames in general. Moreover, this route unlocks the best dungeon level from the game.

And yes, while it is disgustingly sweet, the True Good ending was worth the effort DETERMINATION (these bullet hell sections were a goddamn nightmare). Moreover, just like Earthbound, there's lots of stuff you can try, just to check if the game reacts somehow... And to my surprise, it certainly does so!

For example, in this same "long walk" section you mentioned, there's a somewhat hidden character that you may miss if you're not thorough. Said character not only has lots of interesting stuff to say, it also went as far as to tell me that in the outside world/real life you won't be able to solve everything by being a nice person, and that some people will want to hurt you, no matter what you try. Just in case you forgot, heh. Another example is that you can use the special Pie you were given at the game's beginning while fighting the final boss, provoking a strong reaction from that character.


In any case, it was really fun. Now I'll try the evil route, just to see how far the game lets you go. :M
 

rrc2soft

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Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
And yes, while it is disgustingly sweet, the True Good ending was worth the effort DETERMINATION (these bullet hell sections were a goddamn nightmare). Moreover, just like Earthbound, there's lots of stuff you can try, just to check if the game reacts somehow... And to my surprise, it certainly does so!

For example, in this same "long walk" section you mentioned, there's a somewhat hidden character that you may miss if you're not thorough. Said character not only has lots of interesting stuff to say, it also went as far as to tell me that in the outside world/real life you won't be able to solve everything by being a nice person, and that some people will want to hurt you, no matter what you try. Just in case you forgot, heh. Another example is that you can use the special Pie you were given at the game's beginning while fighting the final boss, provoking a strong reaction from that character.

Yeah, I went back to that place and found him. It was a nice surprise.
In any case, it was really fun. Now I'll try the evil route, just to see how far the game lets you go. :M

Very, VERY far. I am a coward, so I just watched the differences between the pacifist and the evil/genocide ending in youtube.

...and the designer thought on that. Bastard. I love it. Also, PREPARE TO DIE. Sans becomes an overpowered son-of-a-bitch in this route.
 

Durandal

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
so does killing ANY boss/monster automatically put you on the evil route? Or is there some inbetween path? Because I'm trying to be a pacifist, but I have (accidentally) killed some mooks, so I'm wondering if that makes me Satan.
 

rrc2soft

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Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
so does killing ANY boss/monster automatically put you on the evil route? Or is there some inbetween path? Because I'm trying to be a pacifist, but I have (accidentally) killed some mooks, so I'm wondering if that makes me Satan.

No. Killing some monsters puts you in the in-between path, "Neutral".

The more monsters you kill (including bosses - yes, you can kill bosses in the neutral path), the more grim and dark the ending is. The less monsters you kill, the more hopeful the ending is.

Also, the game will "warn" you at certain points if you are going through the "evil route".

However, in order to obtain the evil/genocide ending, you need to kill EVERYONE - including the random encounters. The Save Points will tell you how many monsters are left in a certain area.
 

lightbane

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I checked some info now that I completed the game. Apparently it follows a certain structure:

You always start on the "Neutral" path on every new playthrough. Depending on your choices/actions (ie: killing certain boss/sub-boss monsters or not, doing certain sidequests OR not doing them, etc.), the ending you get can vary from good to bad. However, after that playthrough, you can restart the game with the same character, unlocking the "true" good and evil endings. Both have specific parameters that must be fulfilled.

Logically, they're completely incompatible and YOU CANNOT get both by doing different things at the last save point before the final boss, then reloading the do the other. Once you manage to get the best (or the worst) ending, starting a new game will reset the cycle back to the beginning, forcing you to complete the game one more time to be able to access the extended paths (you can repeat the same route as before though, if you want).

No matter what you do, the game will take into consideration EVERYTHING you have done so far. Supposedly certain actions even have long-lasting consequences that may screw you up when you least expect it.

To cite an example, in order to get the evil route,

once you're past the "neutral" playthrough, you must kill EVERYTHING. Non-stop. You'll notice you're doing it right because random encounters will eventually stop spawning. From that point, you must keep murdering every monster you meet in every new area you enter. Doing so will make certain events change radically, but you have to be thorough to keep yourself in that route, no matter what it takes. Being an evil psycho requires dedication DETERMINATION.


Meanwhile, the pacifist playthrough is not as bad as you expect. Note that being a pacifist DOES NOT mean that you're a pussy who cannot fight back. In fact, contrary to other jrpgs/games, most enemies will not fight to the death with a zeal that would make the Imperial Guard envious. Instead, they'll stop fighting once they're wounded, giving you an alternate way to spare them.

Moreover, the main character (who's 8-10 years old at most), is way more resilient than what you would think, even at lvl1. Also, I discovered what's perhaps one of the few bugs the game has: if you're fighting multiple enemies, it is perfectly ok to murder one or two of them as long as you end the battle with the "Spare" command. You won't get xp that way though, but the battle won't count for your total kills at least.


By the way, rrc2soft, seeing that you have finished the game seven multiple times already,

is the special armor that you can buy at that secret village worth it? I remember it was sold for around 9000+ coins, but so far I never bothered to grind for it.
 
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rrc2soft

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Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
By the way, rrc2soft, seeing that you have finished the game seven multiple times already,
is the special armor that you can buy at that secret village worth it? I remember it was sold for around 9000+ coins, but so far I never bothered to grind for it.

Not really, I just got normal/pacifist/true pacifist endings. But I was curious about the combinations (I love this kind of game design) thus I goggle'd / youtube'd around a bit.

Regarding the armor, I didn't got it on my play through, but I read somewhere that the more you die, the cheaper it is. About its stats, it has 20+ DEF and longer INVulnerability period.
There are also ways to get easy money:
Since Temmies are stupid(ly adorable), you can buy the temmie flakes and sell them back to them for profit. I also read that if you open the piano room, you get infinite dog food, or something. Temmies = Dogs = ...profit!
 

Crooked Bee

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Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Richard Cobbett's RPS review: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/09/21/undertale/

You should play Undertale [official site]. It’s not had much attention since it came out last week, and that’s a real shame, because it’s one of the sweetest, darkest, funniest RPGs I’ve played in ages. It’s rare to find a genuinely funny game, and rarer still to spend several hours laughing and laughing. My only problem with trying to give it its proper due is that by doing so, well, I inevitably have to spoil things. So, if you’re in the mood for a sweet, dark, funny RPG that’s not just about meta references and jokes about XP being stupid, you go check it out, right now, and I’ll see you next week.

If you need a little more than that, hmm. How to describe it without saying too much? Aaah, I know. It’s a bit like Earthbound, only with the big difference that most of the people with nice things to say about it have actually played it. (No, five minutes with a ROM doesn’t count.) And like Earthbound, you’ll kick yourself if you miss it now.


under1.jpg


While Earthbound is the go-to for any comedy JRPG style game, the moment that Undertale really connected with me was when it started channelling Chrono Trigger instead – I’m thinking specifically of the trial scene, where suddenly all your seemingly innocuous actions at the fair at the start of the game get thrown back in your face. Undertale loves that kind of thing, down to its basic gimmick being that it’s an RPG where almost nobody has to die. Kill two happily married dogs just after the tutorial, and later on you’ll be shouted at it by a knight who just can’t believe anyone could be that much of a dick. But, there’s no arguing it. You could have found another way.

If you don’t care about that of course, you don’t have to. You still get combat, and you can stabby-stab if you want, with an all-out ‘genocide’ path through the game that unlocks its own stuff (along with a pacifist run). Still, it’s always possible to try and find another way around an enemy. That might be trying to get a shy monster to sing. It could be taunting a monster to the point that they take themselves out of the battle by over-flexing or getting frustrated with an attack. It can be un-hugging them, aka actively avoiding giving them a hug and thus demonstrating your respect of their personal space. It can even, and I loved this gag, be simply shunning an unpopular monster to the point that you and the other monsters just ditch it and continue the fight elsewhere. Or flirting with one until it loses all interest in the fight but wants to go on a date with you instead. A date that you can then go on, and keep in touch afterwards.

under6.jpg


It’s just wonderful, and a rarity in comedy any-games in that its jokes come from genuine character and funny situations and wit rather than the more standard ‘mock something for being shit and then make the player do the shit thing anyway’ school of humour. Looking at you on that one, The Bard’s Tale. Instead, when it mocks puzzles, it’s not the idea of them, but several screens of having fun with the characters responsible for them – laid-back skeleton Sans and his over-eager brother Papyrus, whose desperation for friends is matched only by his short-sightedness. He’s a guy whose idea of a fiendish puzzle is a Junior Word Jumble, who writes down his plans in notes just to make sure you understand, and honestly, is pretty much the greatest.

That’s the light side of things. The dark? One word: Damn.

under7.jpg


Even basic combat is incredibly cool. Each enemy is its own set of mini-games, with some consistency but generally not too much. They attack with anything from a few seconds of dodging shots, bullet-hell style, to having you jump over things or stay motionless while an attack passes through, while you reciprocate with your own mini-games and occasionally turning their skills against them by bouncing shots right back into their faces. Being a pacifist though is more about surviving the attacks and figuring out how to use your ‘nice’ options against them, which often means weakening them up first or doing something clever with the mechanics that isn’t necessarily immediately obvious. Bosses in particular often demand patience and skill.

The additional catch with this kind of play is that you don’t get any XP for defeating monsters like this, making pacifism an increasingly difficult path compared to hacking and slashing your way past enemies. Needless to say, this is not something that goes unnoticed when the game responds to it. And, sometimes, it’s got its own problems attached, like having to condemn a would-be mother to feeling that she won’t be able to save a single child. In an instant, all her plans for a happy home, a good deed, a fulfilling life of looking after someone are thrown out of the window, and all she can do is give you a big hug and wish you well. And really, that’s a good amount of emotion for a game that looks like… well, let’s be honest… like this. But like all the best indie games, it’s not about the pixels it’s got, but how well it uses them, and Undertale knows where to spend them to squeeze a surprising amount out of very little.

Really, I’m struggling to come up with things to say, purely because when a game has me grinning for a good couple of hours straight, I’m loathe to give away any of the reasons why – the throwaway gags, the repeated characters, the individual lines, the surreal moments. What’s probably most surprising though is how well constructed everything is under the surface. It doesn’t take long to finish the game, and there’s almost no challenge to it. Restart afterwards though and things don’t necessarily play out as remembered the first time. There’s a whole ARG style layer that players are working on trying to crack. Many interactions have a subtlety to them, like a character who openly calls you up as part of a scheme to lure you into a trap, but then later comments cheerfully that they knew you’d know that, so it was fine. Undertale is pretty understated about its subtlety, but it’s got a lot more cards to play than it seems.

under4.jpg


It’s wonderfully tight design, with the result that the weirdness goes beyond just throwing jokes at the wall in the hope that enough of them will land with an amusing splatter and actually starts to feel like a world. In that, it’s much like the Mario and Luigi games over on the portable Nintendo boxes; an adventure silly enough to enjoy every moment, but still with the ability to be dramatic and for decisions to have meaning. The music during the first encounter, breaking down if you don’t play along with a friendly flower’s tutorial. Another friendly character called Toriel who takes you under her wing and plans to keep you safe in her house. The little animations of her holding your hand, patting your head, just wanting the best for you are all so understated but effective. And then of course, you can kill her. You monster. But in that fight, in just one of a thousand tiny but clever little details, when you get down to critical health, Toriel will only deploy a magic attack that can’t kill you – throwing the battle for your sake, even if you’re literally beating her to death to get into the main game.

That’s just a basic example of its cleverness though. The more you play, the more it goes from being a goofy little comedy RPG along the lines of Cthulhu Saves The World or the last couple of Penny Arcade games to something far smarter and more deconstructive. It’s fourth-wall leaning for a bit more than jokes, especially when it comes to resets and the nature of character growth. It’s world design that rewards that replay, even if only for really basic questions like why there are cameras in random trees near the start. And in that replay, there’s some interesting throw-away moments, like considering telling a character you murdered them last time, or being asked if you don’t have anything better to do than sit through the opening banter again.

under5.jpg


Did I mention that Undertale is totally worth checking out yet?

I’m pretty sure I did, but if not, imagine those words being bellowed through a megaphone. You can safely ignore it if you’re not interested in good games. But! For everyone else, it’s one of the smartest and funniest indie adventures around, and one that deserves to be remembered by PC players in much the same way that Earthbound is for console fans. Nowhere near as epic, it’s true. But not everything has to be.

Undertale. It’s over here. That is all.
 

Karwelas

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Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
I just get to first normal finale of game and watched a bit of other endings, Jesus Christ. This game plot may not be complex as some other great games but sure it is fucking good. I love that how you must play every ending to get informations about what really happend, who you are really are, who Flower really is and what the fuck happend. Also, people dig around and find out more and more about some new character, heavy implyed to be guy behind

Sans powers, his time traveling machine that we can find after we do savescumming in right moment (true good ending/pacifist - right after he tells are what really LV and EXP are. Also, there is something after this ending - Asriel, son of King and Toriel and as we learn, Flowey in his fucking grace, isn't behind everyting. We are. As a playername ,we are part of The Fallen Child, boy adopted by King Family and first human that fell into hole in Ruins. He preety much was filled with hate for humanity and wanted to get powers from sucking monster soul and he have done that to Asriel. Later, he caused his own body death and carried it, while possesing Arsiel body to surface, probably implying that he killed 'human' boy. That was spark that started the war. Later, Arsiel get his body back just before he started fighting with humans that attacked him and run away to underground palace, where he died. (And probably make monsters think that humans killed him). In the meantime, that professor chick was working for injecting force called 'Determination' into dead monsters turned into dust, as they always did, thus making them live again, but mutate into horrible monsters... but still sane monsters. (In area called 'True Lab', right in professor chick 'Toilet'.

So far we know that probably player character is actually two souls in one body, First Child, getting control during slaugher run and normal kid that fell into hole in Ruins (in place where Fallen Child body was carred and buried... right under flowers that we fall on. In this moment, their souls combined.

By the way, what do I mean about Sans powers? Well, moving trought space and time, powers during fight with him on slaughter road, that some character admits that he move without moving (and have 'shortcuts') and that he admit it himself.
 

Gozma

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In the age of crowded-as-fuck low median sales Steam the ultraquirky solodev'd Earthbound-JRPG prospers for some reason
 

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