Apparently Citizens of Earth was mediocre and this is the only good Earthbound-like so far, though. (Unless I'm forgetting something.)
vvv I knew I was forgetting something.
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Moonspeak Undertale - friendship/genocide RPG
- Thread starter lightbane
- Start date
Apparently Citizens of Earth was mediocre and this is the only good Earthbound-like so far, though. (Unless I'm forgetting something.)
vvv I knew I was forgetting something.
Latro
Arcane
Undertale is Wannabe JRPG + Homestuck, so I'd say it deserves it's weeb status. It'd look out of place among Gen. RPG.
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,205
So, I finished the game with the EVIL/CARNAGE route (well, mostly, I didn't have the patience to waste countless hours fighting against the final boss and thus I used the magic of Youtube) and I have to say: it's quite disappointing.
TL;DR: the evil route is the weakest part of the game compared with the others. I like the fact that finishing that run slightly changes subsequent playthroughs, but said changes are extremely minor and not worth the effort if you had enough of the game (which I have).
The game has some plot-holes which are never addressed though. To cite some examples:
Finally, I have to say I liked the game and its writing. I'm looking forward for future updates and/other games of the same developer. Also, MRY, thank you very much for your gift.
PS: For those who played LISA, how does it compare with Undertale? I'm curious.
PPS: The game's soundtrack is certainly awesome. It deserves to be mentioned again:
Lastly but not least, this:
I understand the idea was that you were meant to feel as a slasher villain/powergamer protagonist, but the game doesn't exploit that angle enough in my opinion. To start, the low encounter rate makes this experience very tedious, although at least you can alt-tab the game while moving to make the character hunt for enemies while you do something else. What's more, in spite of the game's fluff telling you that human souls filled with hatred could insta-kill monsters quite easily, a fact which becomes apparent with the bosses, the random encounters are the same as always. You don't get more powerful against these no matter what your level is. I believe in this aspect it would have been better if the game used sprites to represent enemies in the game-world, making these run away when they spot you during the Carnage route, or at least that the randomly encountered enemies changed their dialogue, so that they try begging you for mercy or mention how you're a psycho that must be stopped for the sake of their families. Also, you're still bombarded with random encounters screen-changes, even though they repeatedly show that there's no-one coming, which is frustrating as hell.
Second, you don't really do anything absolutely evil besides the slaughter of random creatures and the bosses: you never get the opportunity to kill that monster kid, nor you can slay the shopkeepers for some reason (it would have been cool if the game allowed to do that in expense of losing access to their wares, just to show off you can do that). In fact, the only truly monstrous action you do, aka killing Flowey, is not even done by the player himself. Moreover, that retard deserved it for not running away the moment he noticed the First Child was going to kill him (Flowey can seemingly teleport/move underground anytime, but he conveniently forgets that little detail). Although I liked the fact that Flowey, even in his deranged state, was not 100% evil: he was trying to somehow "save" his own people. Moreover, he explicitly mentions that once he managed to get outside, he would have been contented with just chilling out with his bro.
Third, the new boss battles are completely unbalanced: Super Undyne is frustratingly difficult, Neo Metatton does nothing and Sans is literally designed to make the player rage-quit. I would have liked it if Metatton was a step-up in difficulty compared with Undyne so that players can get some preparation for the final boss.
Fourth, while the Carnage path does have some subtle changes, it would have been better if the protagonist started showing up minor physical changes as well as you progress (culminating with his complete possession at the ending), but at least you do get different descriptions when you examine stuff at the endgame, implying something's wrong.
Overall, I think it could have been done better with a little more work. You also never get the opportunity to kill Alphys, which could have been used to modify the True Laboratory level as an optional "sidequest": you get nothing doing it, but you can still go there anyway to kill the hidden survivors just because the game gives you that option. Alphys herself could have been used as a minor boss who dies from a single hit, but still uses her last moments to call out on your pointless bloodlust and ask what were you expecting to gain with your killing spree. Or even use the Determination-Extractor machine as a last resort to stop you.
Second, you don't really do anything absolutely evil besides the slaughter of random creatures and the bosses: you never get the opportunity to kill that monster kid, nor you can slay the shopkeepers for some reason (it would have been cool if the game allowed to do that in expense of losing access to their wares, just to show off you can do that). In fact, the only truly monstrous action you do, aka killing Flowey, is not even done by the player himself. Moreover, that retard deserved it for not running away the moment he noticed the First Child was going to kill him (Flowey can seemingly teleport/move underground anytime, but he conveniently forgets that little detail). Although I liked the fact that Flowey, even in his deranged state, was not 100% evil: he was trying to somehow "save" his own people. Moreover, he explicitly mentions that once he managed to get outside, he would have been contented with just chilling out with his bro.
Third, the new boss battles are completely unbalanced: Super Undyne is frustratingly difficult, Neo Metatton does nothing and Sans is literally designed to make the player rage-quit. I would have liked it if Metatton was a step-up in difficulty compared with Undyne so that players can get some preparation for the final boss.
Fourth, while the Carnage path does have some subtle changes, it would have been better if the protagonist started showing up minor physical changes as well as you progress (culminating with his complete possession at the ending), but at least you do get different descriptions when you examine stuff at the endgame, implying something's wrong.
Overall, I think it could have been done better with a little more work. You also never get the opportunity to kill Alphys, which could have been used to modify the True Laboratory level as an optional "sidequest": you get nothing doing it, but you can still go there anyway to kill the hidden survivors just because the game gives you that option. Alphys herself could have been used as a minor boss who dies from a single hit, but still uses her last moments to call out on your pointless bloodlust and ask what were you expecting to gain with your killing spree. Or even use the Determination-Extractor machine as a last resort to stop you.
TL;DR: the evil route is the weakest part of the game compared with the others. I like the fact that finishing that run slightly changes subsequent playthroughs, but said changes are extremely minor and not worth the effort if you had enough of the game (which I have).
Also, selling your soul can be easily solved by a power greater than DETERMINATION: the magic of accessing the game's save files and messing with these. 
The game has some plot-holes which are never addressed though. To cite some examples:
- What is Asriel/Flowey's ultimate fate in the good ending? He turns into a flower again, but we don't know what happens with him after that (I assume he commits suicide to finally achieve peace).
- Why the she-Andonuts never informed the king about the tapes she discovered, especially the ones detailing the First Child's ultimate plan? And how can it be that Asriel is that much of a spineless wimp to the point that he agreed to cooperate with his brother's plan to commit suicide, and yet he never considered the idea of telling someone else what was the First Child trying to do? On the other hand, he's a sheep-like humanoid, so maybe it was really easy to herd him around.
- Related to the previous point: Why didn't Chara/the First Child simply eviscerated Asriel, then absorb his soul and go in a rampage as he wanted? Maybe he did care a little for his adopted sibling in spite of everything.
- Why does the main character start with bandages? I assumed that was to make the connection with the First Child's possession, but perhaps it's just a red herring.
- How did Alphys managed to extract the Determination to begin with? As she says in one of her reports, creating an artificial soul is impossible, so she most likely had to use an undetermined number of human "volunteers" to butcher their Souls in order to get their Determination, but it goes nowhere.
- Sans' speech about the timelines being deleted due your fault may be a mistake: Flowey was the first one to start with the messing around with the save/load power just to see what happened, so it's possible that he was talking about Flowey instead of the player.
- Why the she-Andonuts never informed the king about the tapes she discovered, especially the ones detailing the First Child's ultimate plan? And how can it be that Asriel is that much of a spineless wimp to the point that he agreed to cooperate with his brother's plan to commit suicide, and yet he never considered the idea of telling someone else what was the First Child trying to do? On the other hand, he's a sheep-like humanoid, so maybe it was really easy to herd him around.
- Related to the previous point: Why didn't Chara/the First Child simply eviscerated Asriel, then absorb his soul and go in a rampage as he wanted? Maybe he did care a little for his adopted sibling in spite of everything.
- Why does the main character start with bandages? I assumed that was to make the connection with the First Child's possession, but perhaps it's just a red herring.
- How did Alphys managed to extract the Determination to begin with? As she says in one of her reports, creating an artificial soul is impossible, so she most likely had to use an undetermined number of human "volunteers" to butcher their Souls in order to get their Determination, but it goes nowhere.
- Sans' speech about the timelines being deleted due your fault may be a mistake: Flowey was the first one to start with the messing around with the save/load power just to see what happened, so it's possible that he was talking about Flowey instead of the player.
Finally, I have to say I liked the game and its writing. I'm looking forward for future updates and/other games of the same developer. Also, MRY, thank you very much for your gift.
PS: For those who played LISA, how does it compare with Undertale? I'm curious.
PPS: The game's soundtrack is certainly awesome. It deserves to be mentioned again:
Lastly but not least, this:
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Latro
Arcane
LISA's great, but it drags a bit about mid-way until it picks up near the end. The epilogue DLC isn't quite as good and is only there to end the series.
Ivan
Arcane
Papyrus npc of the year followed by Racter.
the Papyrus "date" had me in stitches.
the Papyrus "date" had me in stitches.
Papyrus and Sans best skeleton bros ever.
Also that
On Genocide run, he don't even attack you, but instead want to hug you becouse he thinks you are just sad, broken person. Also, if you kill him, he still fucking believe in you. STILL. It was moment when I gave up on my geno run. Fuck this shit.
Also, fuck Asgore. Seriously, it is heavily implyed that those souls are from kids like us. Jesus Christ.
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,205
Papyrus is certainly one of the game's best written characters. For extra hilarity,
About Asgore, sadly he doesn't have too many lines, but he's certainly a bastard.
What's never mentioned is how much time happened between each case and why is that cursed mountain so popular with children.
notice how he's the ONLY monster (besides Toriel) that never kills you if you lose. In fact, doing so will result in being thrown into his dungeon next to his house. Unfortunately, he forgot to lock the door, so you can easily leave and challenge him again. If you fail 3 times in a row, he gets fed up with your persistence and lets you win the encounter instantly.
Compare this with others like the horrible spider-lady, who not only sadistically comments she's going to kill you, she mentions what she'll do once she kills you, how exactly she'll kill you do and how tasty your remains shall be once she's finished with you. And she only lets you go if you bought spider stuff from the ruins or herself (no idea what happens if you never did any of the two). Sparing that bitch was one of the hardest decisions in my playthroughs, I was always tempted to kill that horrible bug.
Compare this with others like the horrible spider-lady, who not only sadistically comments she's going to kill you, she mentions what she'll do once she kills you, how exactly she'll kill you do and how tasty your remains shall be once she's finished with you. And she only lets you go if you bought spider stuff from the ruins or herself (no idea what happens if you never did any of the two). Sparing that bitch was one of the hardest decisions in my playthroughs, I was always tempted to kill that horrible bug.
About Asgore, sadly he doesn't have too many lines, but he's certainly a bastard.
You can pretty much confirm your suspicion by taking into account which items can the MC equip, the children toys and other stuff at the ruins, Asgore's reaction and poorly done attempts to ease what is essentially your execution and the fact that all of the coffins are child-sized.
Add to that he is fucking coward that despite fact that he could end his people misery very easy (he could just take souls and go outside to get seventh one, but instead he just sit in his castle and wait for last one (and he hopes that it never come).I mean, I like him, he is fucking goatdad and it is hard to not like him, but that Toriel hates him show us how much he fucked up. Well maybe that + thing that she lost both her sons... but seriously, it hurt me that we never get see him judged for... like... I don't know... six fucking childrens that died from either his hands or by his orders. Everyone seems to be preety ok with that. What the fuck?!
Seriosuly, Toriel hating someone? He is only person around.
This isn't only thing that hurt me - Dr.A-motherfucking lizard. She is cute, yep, but she went little too far with her research. She created monsters... from monsters. (Well, those are actually harmless, sane creatures that come back to their families... and this hurts me a bit, becouse it would be really better plot twist if they would be mad, twisted, angry creatures that want to kill and harm you. Then shit would probably hit the fan.
Oh and about time - probably millennials, this is at least suggested by game.
Seriosuly, Toriel hating someone? He is only person around.
This isn't only thing that hurt me - Dr.A-motherfucking lizard. She is cute, yep, but she went little too far with her research. She created monsters... from monsters. (Well, those are actually harmless, sane creatures that come back to their families... and this hurts me a bit, becouse it would be really better plot twist if they would be mad, twisted, angry creatures that want to kill and harm you. Then shit would probably hit the fan.
Oh and about time - probably millennials, this is at least suggested by game.
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,205
I believe most monsters were okay with the previous child-murders because one or several of these reasons:
A: They would consider them a different species/race separated from themselves and thus it doesn't count as murder.
B: They're angry with humans because their royal heir died by their hands and their enforced isolation (note that by the time the Fallen Child came in, the barrier was already placed long ago).
C: They're bitter with the War, especially considering the onslaught that followed.
D: Their minds are partially alien and don't understand "standard" morality (they're called monsters for a reason).
E: All of the above.
That naturally changed when the protagonist came in. Amusingly enough, their king's reasoning of using the human souls to become almighty and exterminate humanity was precisely what humans feared that one day would happen, hence why they started the War. I guess that's the so-called irony of fate. Or perhaps idiocy and lack of foresight are universal..
On the other hand, the majority of the monsters do not present a physical threat to the average human kid and are extremely brittle, so perhaps going back to the surface and joining humanity was not a good decision. But it's the thought what counts.
Moreover, the Amalgates are twisted undead abominations that do try to kill you, just because you were unlucky enough to be in the way and/or because they were hungry. But all is forgiven because no-one died by their actionsand the main character is human scum who doesn't count.
A: They would consider them a different species/race separated from themselves and thus it doesn't count as murder.
B: They're angry with humans because their royal heir died by their hands and their enforced isolation (note that by the time the Fallen Child came in, the barrier was already placed long ago).
C: They're bitter with the War, especially considering the onslaught that followed.
D: Their minds are partially alien and don't understand "standard" morality (they're called monsters for a reason).
E: All of the above.
That naturally changed when the protagonist came in. Amusingly enough, their king's reasoning of using the human souls to become almighty and exterminate humanity was precisely what humans feared that one day would happen, hence why they started the War. I guess that's the so-called irony of fate. Or perhaps idiocy and lack of foresight are universal.
.On the other hand, the majority of the monsters do not present a physical threat to the average human kid and are extremely brittle, so perhaps going back to the surface and joining humanity was not a good decision. But it's the thought what counts.
Moreover, the Amalgates are twisted undead abominations that do try to kill you, just because you were unlucky enough to be in the way and/or because they were hungry. But all is forgiven because no-one died by their actions
Actually, Amalgates are stated to be minds of people infused into one body. Try to sleep on one of beds in True Lab. One of Almgates will appear... fucking cover you with sheet and pat you on your head, so you could sleep. Also, they are confirmed to be rather harmless - they never harmed anyone (and actually any of monsters never wanted to kill you, exluding genocide path/Asgore/Undyne, at least not in our kind of that word. They don't know how those attack works on our soul and Frisk probably never was harmed in other way then 'soul' damage... however, there are still things like Toriel that tell us we are hurt in ruins, after we meet her and we have some damages. Also - most of monsters don't know how human even look anymore. Sans probably know becouse his powers and that he saw us already, Toriel had human son/Asgore too. Papyrus don't know if we are even human, as Monster Kid.
Remember that monsters actually aren't so... material as humans in Undertale lore, so it may just be they are playing with us. Also I wonder what Toriel would do if adult human would fall into Underground. Probably panic as adult humans don't have problem to overpower a lot of monsters (this was confirmed by start animation, I think + writings in Waterfall).
By the way, all of reasons seems actually legit, exluding D - we know they actually know much of our morality (they will call us a murderer if we are on genocide, they also care about their families and things like that. Monsters are preety similar to us in that matter.
I'm also a bit angry with that Toby get us 'super' happy ending. I'm preety sure humans can remember what happend long ago (at least in legends of some sort), as we don't know how different human world is in UT lore, but I think it could be our time.
So, monsters appear again. Frisk become guy that talk with monsters and humans... and there he is preety much loled/feared by most of adult humans, as he is child, easy to manipulate. Most of people would probably ask why the fuck people/children disappeared on mountain and what happend to them... and I'm preety sure they rather wouldn't be happy with Asgore answers.
Remember that monsters actually aren't so... material as humans in Undertale lore, so it may just be they are playing with us. Also I wonder what Toriel would do if adult human would fall into Underground. Probably panic as adult humans don't have problem to overpower a lot of monsters (this was confirmed by start animation, I think + writings in Waterfall).
By the way, all of reasons seems actually legit, exluding D - we know they actually know much of our morality (they will call us a murderer if we are on genocide, they also care about their families and things like that. Monsters are preety similar to us in that matter.
I'm also a bit angry with that Toby get us 'super' happy ending. I'm preety sure humans can remember what happend long ago (at least in legends of some sort), as we don't know how different human world is in UT lore, but I think it could be our time.
So, monsters appear again. Frisk become guy that talk with monsters and humans... and there he is preety much loled/feared by most of adult humans, as he is child, easy to manipulate. Most of people would probably ask why the fuck people/children disappeared on mountain and what happend to them... and I'm preety sure they rather wouldn't be happy with Asgore answers.
Thank you, Tumblr!
Dank memes, fanart (actually, most of it isn't even rule 34!) and fucking /v/ with actually something funny to say about games... and by the way, check game on metacritic, with reviews... it fucking beat MGS5, welp. (I know, however, only 5 reviews.
PICTURES LARGE
I WARNED YOU DIDN'T I?
Well, people like that game actually don't suck monkey tits and is preety cool. It have that weird, cartoon humour, great music (soundtrack the best, fuck, I still listen to it) and actually some interesting characters.
That was fast. And the game is not even a month old.
Muffet, Asriel and Skelebros for live. I want next toby game now.
Ivan
Arcane
funniest game i've ever played
going to Undyne's House with Papyrus killed me
going to Undyne's House with Papyrus killed me
TigerKnee
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,920
I don't get the hype. She was like a boss with no personality outside of "Jew Spider" and literally disappeared from the game after she's defeated.
Unless you're
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 44
While I find her design kind of cute, I wanted to kill her sooooooo badly in my run... it was the only character that I felt truly wanted to kill my character "just for fun".
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,205
Amusingly enough, there's unique dialogue for her during the Genocide path, in the unlikely case you don't immediately kill her:
Basically she's actively hostile to everything and everyone except her own kind. I guess Muffet was put here to test the players' resolve.
Basically, she implies that the lizard scientist tried to urge her to leave Hotland with the others, but she refused because a spider "never leaves her web". Additionally, she says her only regret is that she didn't consider at that time to capture the lizard to preserve her as food. Then, when the little spider with the telegram comes, she says that although you're an hyper-violent psychopath, you were not seen harming any spider at all in the Ruins, so you're okay in her book and thus ends up sparing you anyway.
Basically she's actively hostile to everything and everyone except her own kind. I guess Muffet was put here to test the players' resolve.
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