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Moonspeak Undertale - friendship/genocide RPG

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by lightbane, Sep 14, 2015.

  1. Aurelius Educated

    Aurelius
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    You make a lot of good points. All I can say that I didn't like the design of that fight too much. The Pacifist route was better, although it still had some (for me) cringe-inducing moments at the end.

    Another thing I didn't enjoy was the design around multiple playthroughs. Of course, branching storylines are always welcome and it had some decent C&C, but I would've appreciated some kind of skip feature instead of hearing the same dialogues and solving the same puzzles.

    The game also introduces too many concepts while doing little to elaborate on some of them:
    Show Spoiler
    Souls, LOVE/EXP, monsters and humans felt quite well done, mostly because they are simple and therefore suited for a small-scope game. Worst offender for me was the time-travel and multiple timeline-stuff. Sure, the developer managed to build a story around all these concepts, but were they all necessary? In essence, I had a really hard time suspending my disbelief in the endgame stages. Who knows, maybe I'm just retarded and it all fits together perfectly.

    I sure do feel retarded after having figured out how easy mercying Undyne was. The first time I constantly challenged her, thinking she might eventually give up (even though the game explicitly tells you she never does when you check her).
     
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  2. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    got to San's final attack for the first time, got to the final dragon fire attack, got wrecked. I was hoping I had one more turn in between to fully heal
    [​IMG]
    ok so I can now consistently get to the that final dragon breath attack but it has wrecked me for a 2nd time!!!
    3rd time....4th time///5th time//6th/7th
     
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  3. Gozma Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Gozma
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    I think it's pretty great but Codex shouldn't line up to give the latest well-done indie quirkbomb a de rigueur tonguebathing
     
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  4. Jasede Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Jasede
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    I disagree, considering we reviewed far less RPGy weird Japanese indie games that had far less storytelling merit.

    Either way, it's a moot point. If one writes a review and sends it in and it isn't terrible post editing it'll be posted.
     
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  5. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    if you, or the Codex as a collective) enjoys something we should endorse it.

    looking at this thread, the majority seem to agree that it's pretty damn great
     
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  6. Crooked Bee (no longer) a wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Jasede's correct. If anyone wants to review something, they should just do it.
     
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  7. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
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    Well, the game does have a skip feature of sorts for certain cutscenes if you have seen these already, but yes, a fast-forward/skip cutscene button would have been welcome.

    Show Spoiler


    The timeline thing was an abstraction I believe, Asriel was refering to your powers of starting a "New game", save-scumming and such. There's no real time-travel featured in the story except for Sans, whose secret is a hidden easter egg and doesn't change the ending much anyway.

    About Undyne, I think the first thing she says upon fighting her is a hint that you won't run away from her as long as you're green. I think she mentions something like that again at some point when her health is low (plus she stops changing your heart to green). Also, fun fact: One time that I was experimenting with her reactions, I accidentally failed her first attack sequence. Upon seeing that, she mentions what you have to do more bluntly, repeating the same sequence instead of skipping to her second attack (if I am not mistaken). I purposely failed again just to see if she reacted. She does, getting even angrier and asking if I was retard, once-more doing the first sequence. At the third failure though, she gets pissed off and directly skips to her more complex attack sequences. :lol:



    EDIT: By the way, Damned Registrations, what is that BoI thing? Did Toby make another game besides this one and his famous Earthbound's Hallowen hack?
     
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  8. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    I was referring to the stuff you need to do to find out how to unlock the Lost character. If you didn't know (I don't even feel bad about spoiling this) the Lost is unlocked by dying in particular ways with each of 4 of the characters, in order, without dying in any other ways or playing the wrong character. So no way in hell to do this naturally. And to find out what those deaths are, you need to assemble jigsaw puzzles, 4 of them. The way you do that is by taking Isaac, finding the Missing Poster trinket, and then dying by killing yourself on the spikes in a sacrifice room. That will get you a single puzzle piece at random. Yeah. Good luck with that shit.

    The community got this far
    [​IMG]
    Note that the pieces don't actually even fit together, they are completely random and can overlap, fill in entirely blank space, cover only a tiny bit of the edge, etc.

    So someone got fed up and just datamined that shit, or botted to get all the required pieces, either way, waste of a significant amount of effort on Edmund's part trying to program this grand community puzzle that was supposed to take months to complete even with hundreds of people working together. And hopefully nobody trolling with a fake piece.
     
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  9. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    Finished Sans. I feel dirty now. great game 4/4
     
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  10. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    It was weird finally beating him for me, because it was such a challenge I was thrilled to do it (and without spoilers it was all the sweeter), but at the same time, I really felt like a douche at that point. I think, if I'd had the option, I'd have spared him after getting through his final attack.
     
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  11. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    Same here. It took me hours. I like how they randomize some of the attacks too. It had me completely on edge. I died so many times during the very last attack.

    Also, you never tried sparing him and got the special game over screen?
     
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  12. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    I didn't. He was right about one thing: I was in that fight for the challenge. No matter what, I wasn't going to give up until I'd won.

    I also realized around the 20th attempt or so, that when he talks about how he doesn't try very hard because he knows it'll all just be reset one day, I actually have very similar feelings myself (I believe time is cyclical) so it was a bit ironic hearing him make the same sort of excuse in a situation where I wasn't meant to be able to relate at all.
     
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  13. Gozma Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Gozma
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    My thinking is that I feel like Undertale is good, but I don't really want anyone else to try to copy it or keep trying this kind of minimalist tack. The game is good because the guy has good taste, not for any structural reason. It's getting a paroxysm of enthusiasm on the game internet anyway.

    But obviously the Codex isn't some place that needs to review anything, so I guess if someone is motivated enough to get off their ass to write something they'll have a good reason to talk besides feeling good about liking a fashionable game.
     
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  14. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    top 3:


     
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  15. Talby Arcane Patron

    Talby
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    Codex USB, 2014
    So, what's so great about this game? I played for a couple of hours, it's amusing but nothing special. Does it get better later on? I'm just past the point where
    Show Spoiler
    I killed Papyrus. Just wanted to shut that guy up.
     
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  16. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    you done fucked up

    you will neither have a good time nor a bad time

    in earnest though, if you're not won over by the game's charm in its first 2 hours then it won't change your mind later on. also, there's a more "annoying" character later on who you can't kill off
     
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  17. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
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    Damned Registrations
    Now that you finished the game with all routes, I would like to hear your thoughts about

    Show Spoiler
    Frisk's nature. Personally I believe he's a regular kid from the outside, who may or may not have been attracted by the Fallen Human to the Underground. Once there he probably died on the fall/was knocked out and was partially possessed by what was left of the FH's soul. The gameplay and routes you take determine if said possession is successful or not (aka if you're very aggressive, a pacifist or something in between). The bandages and his strange looks may be proof of this, but perhaps it's nothing else but a red herring (it could be that in the past he was picked on often, considering said bandages mention they been used several times already). At some point I thought he was some sort of freaky experiment made at the Lost Lab with Determination, using FH's corpse or the ones from the other children, but it is unlikely, considering he seems to have a home to return to during the ending. Who knows, it's left open to interpretation.

    What do you think?
     
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  18. Damned Registrations Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Show Spoiler
    I mostly agree with what you figured, but I find the bandages very hard to explain in a way other than a direct connection to the FH. Given that most of the other equipment you find in the game most likely belongs to the other dead children, and there is overlap between the stick/real knife and bandages/locket on the messages you get from the 'golf' like thing just outside the ruins, it seems like perhaps those things belonged to the FH as well. It's also very strange that you aren't hurt from the fall; you're at full health when you wake up. I didn't take the 'home to return to' ending myself, so I'm not sure what that entails.

    A pet theory of mine is that somewhere near the mountain is an orphanage, and the children falling into the ruins have all come from there for one reason or another. Perhaps someone there is driving them to the ruins purposely.

    What I'm actually more curious about is Asriel- according to the game, his soul should have turned to dust when he died in the flowers. You can make a case for the FH's soul sticking to the flowers or his corpse because it was human, but Asriel is a monster. His soul should have been lost at that point, unless the FH took it from him somehow. Perhaps when the FH died he possessed Asriel, instead of the other way around. So when he died, both souls remained. Or determination is part of the souls? That would explain why a creature without a soul was needed to make proper use of DETERMINATION. Eh, it's all too vague to draw any real conclusion.

    Another thought is that perhaps the FH is in control even in the pacifist ending. In the pacifist route, Toriel's (and everyone else along the way) kindness gives the FH a change of heart and they give up their dark ambitions.

    I'm curious, has anyone pulled off a genocide run without ever touching a save point? I'd be curious if that changes anything, given that it would imply you lack not only the ability to save, but the determination each point adds to you as well. Of course, it'd have to be a virgin run, otherwise you've already established you have those powers in previous runs.
     
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  19. TigerKnee Prophet

    TigerKnee
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    I believe Snowdin's library has some books on the subject of this
     
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  20. Talby Arcane Patron

    Talby
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    Codex USB, 2014
    I decided to keep playing, and I'm glad I did. The fights with
    Show Spoiler
    Undyne and Mettaton
    hit me right in the feels.
     
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  21. Karwelas Dwarf Taffer

    Karwelas
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    Show Spoiler
    I was thinking about Asgore and I must say that I feel a kind of... well. Sad.
    Let's say this - he is murderer. He killed six children even if he could just go outside Field and get six another souls. Then free his people, but instead he just hope that seven soul never will come. But fuck, we see that at the time we fight him, he is wreck of himself. He never even look at us when we fight with him, he tries to do everything to make our execution (well, it was supposed to be one, he probably however knows about our determination powers and that we can survive death until we don't get broken). I feel bad and angry at the same time. Well, I'm sure he deserve punishment, but I wonder if his live isn't enough punishment for him, after what he have done, even in True Ending. What do you think?
     
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  22. Ivan Arcane

    Ivan
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    Show Spoiler
    murders 6 children - not sure if guilty
     
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  23. Bubbles I'm forever blowing

    Self-Ejected
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    An official Codex review is in the works, but there's always room for more. Especially when it's about the highest rated RPG of all time and one of the most popular games of the year.
     
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  24. lightbane Arcane

    lightbane
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    Damned Registrations

    Show Spoiler
    The "going home" ending implies Frisk has some place to stay, so he takes a group photo with his friends before leaving. The other one seems to show that Frisk ends up being adopted by Toriel (whose new house is suspiciously similar to Ness' one, complete with identical textures). About Asriel, when he fused with the Fallen Child and died, since he had two souls at the moment of his death, he lost both. However, the human soul still survived somehow as a lingering evil influence (the entity from the bad ending who doesn't even consider himself human), while Asriel's soul remains got imprinted on his favorite thing: the golden flower. That's why Flowey came to be: he had the determination from a human soul (Alphys mentioned only these have Determination) and the remains of his old self. Unfortunately, his unnatural origin made him an abomination with literal emotional damage and unable to kill himself, explaining why he goes nuts.

    Lastly, there's a small change if you do a full pacifist run without saving: when Asriel overpowers you, instead of mentioning how you cannot reach your save file, it says that the only way to win is to overwrite Asriel's save file, but you don't know how to do that since you lack the power of SAVING. Then it goes as normal after that. Perhaps the Genocide ending does something like this, but I doubt it would be a big change.

    Note that the final battle from the Pacifist Path states that the Fallen Child's soul is "stored" somewhere inside Asriel's body. Therefore, I believe by the point of reaching the True Laboratory, Frisk is fully in control of his own body, the Fallen Child's influence out of his body and back to the Underground.


    Karwelas

    The fact that certain characters give you mixed feelings is intentional. However,

    Show Spoiler
    Assgore gets what he deserves. Don't forget that the last step of his plan was to wipe out humanity... Or he would if he wasn't such a spineless sheep goat who wanted to die. Like father, like son the saying goes.



    By the way, is it true that the Codex is doing an oficial review, Bubbles? What about other games like PoE's expansion (along with other reviews stating how the first one is totally wrong), Serpent in the Staglands, Shadowrun: HK, Bedlam and the other rpgs? I would have assumed these were going to receive a review as well.

    Lastly but not least, here's some funny fan art I found somewhere (watch out, it has some spoilers).

    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]

    I can totally see this happening. :lol:
    [​IMG]
    The final battle in a nutshell.
    [​IMG]
    That's a reference to one of the text messages you get during the "endgame walk".
    Finally, this:
    https://youtu.be/DdA_axFJZSg
    https://youtu.be/mvhBKiCTbhc
     
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  25. rrc2soft Educated Patron

    rrc2soft
    Joined:
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    Serpent in the Staglands Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    So, are we posting music now? :-D

    Show Spoiler
    This is stuff of legends:
     
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