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Game News Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter Update #21: On Fighters and Melee Combat

Infinitron

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Tags: OtherSide Entertainment; Underworld Ascendant

After receiving several shout-outs yesterday, the Underworld Ascendant Kickstarter campaign made it past $550,000 of funding and 10,000 backers, and it's now approaching its funding goal at a relatively brisk pace. The first Kickstarter update of the campaign's final week is all about melee combat, and OtherSide's thoughts about how to improve it beyond the simple clickfest formula of the original Underworlds. I quote:

In most fantasy RPG’s, fighters are not the sharpest tools in the shed. Rather than relying on their brains, they use their ample brawn. Wading into a battle, slashing and smashing every foe in sight.

Nothing wrong-headed with that style of character. Can be great fun! Underworld Ascendant welcomes players who want to play a straight up, traditional fighter character. But fighting can go much deeper than simply brawn. Finesse. The tactics of maneuvering back-and-forth with an opponent in a flowing, dynamic engagement. Mastering a weapon. Learning your opponent’s weakness, then using that against them. Players who choose to focus on fighting will be able grow into masters of the art of combat.

What does this mean in terms of game play? Here is one illustrative example…

[Caveat. Please understand that we are still in prototype phase. What is described below is our best guess at how combat will likely work well. But as we have learned from making games such as Ultima Underworld and Thief, often you discover further along in development that changes from the original design plan are needed to achieve the best gameplay. So this is just a starting point.]

Romulus, a master swordsman, has just turned a corner to spy a Dire Faerie, hovering in the middle of a large and high-ceiled chamber. The Faerie has not yet noticed Romulus, so he decides on a stealthy approach to try to get close, unnoticed.

Romulus closes in quickly, and is nearly on top of the Faerie before it becomes of aware of the fighter’s presence. The Faerie spins and tries to fly away, but Romulus is able to land a blow to one of the Faerie’s wings before it can get out of reach. The damage to the wing makes the Faerie’s flight unsteady; harder for it to maneuver outside of Romulus’ range. Romulus has achieved his first objective of the battle, to neutralize the Faerie’s advantage of flight.

Now he closes in for the kill. Since Romulus has fought Faeries before, he has learned some of their weaknesses. The game reveals this by showing a glow on the Faerie’s left chest, which is especially vulnerable.

Romulus closes in to try to land the killing blow…

This is just one way this battle might evolve. Each battle will be fluid and dynamic, with the player having choices to make, tactics to adjust. As players master that art of warfare, they will gain new skills that layer into these choices. Some skills will make them simply deadly, but others will open up new tactics they can try using.

It is worth highlighting that in Underworld Ascendant combat will not be a fast, twitch experience. Even though gameplay is played out in fluid first-person 3D, the pace will be slower than a “shooter”, giving players more time to make tactical decisions.

Likewise, it will not be a game about pixel precision landing of blows. Your fighter’s character skill will factor into the success of landing blows, more so than your quick twitch ability. If you are role-playing a master swordsman, we want you be able to actually fight just like a master swordsman, even if you’ve never hefted a real sword in your life.

Paired with the Improvisation Engine, combat in the game is not just about whittling away your opponent’s hit points. With maneuvering, knowledge and planning the combat possibilities are practically endless, and ensure that Mages aren’t the only ones who fight with flashy tricks!
We've had updates on magic and melee now, so I suppose there's a good chance the next one will be about thievery. Considering the developers' background, that could be pretty interesting.
 

Athelas

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Likewise, it will not be a game about pixel precision landing of blows. Your fighter’s character skill will factor into the success of landing blows, more so than your quick twitch ability.


:troll:
 

Infinitron

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Heh, they did say in our report:

Chris: … and a thing pops up on your screen and says, “Dodged!” How exciting (sarcastic)
 

Vault Dweller

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What does this mean in terms of game play? Here is one illustrative example…

[Caveat. Please understand that we are still in prototype phase. What is described below is our best guess at how combat will likely work well. But as we have learned from making games such as Ultima Underworld and Thief, often you discover further along in development that changes from the original design plan are needed to achieve the best gameplay. So this is just a starting point.]

Romulus, a master swordsman, has just turned a corner to spy a Dire Faerie, hovering in the middle of a large and high-ceiled chamber. The Faerie has not yet noticed Romulus, so he decides on a stealthy approach to try to get close, unnoticed.

Romulus closes in quickly, and is nearly on top of the Faerie before it becomes of aware of the fighter’s presence. The Faerie spins and tries to fly away, but Romulus is able to land a blow to one of the Faerie’s wings before it can get out of reach. The damage to the wing makes the Faerie’s flight unsteady; harder for it to maneuver outside of Romulus’ range. Romulus has achieved his first objective of the battle, to neutralize the Faerie’s advantage of flight.

Now he closes in for the kill. Since Romulus has fought Faeries before, he has learned some of their weaknesses. The game reveals this by showing a glow on the Faerie’s left chest, which is especially vulnerable.

Romulus closes in to try to land the killing blow…

This is just one way this battle might evolve. Each battle will be fluid and dynamic, with the player having choices to make, tactics to adjust. As players master that art of warfare, they will gain new skills that layer into these choices. Some skills will make them simply deadly, but others will open up new tactics they can try using.​

Reminds me of the Oblivion tale by MrSmileyFaceDude.

You're walking through a seedy part of a town in Western Cyrodiil. People mill about, some engaged in conversation, others minding their own business, out on their own errands. Suddenly, an ugly man decides he doesn't like you. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's just a bully, maybe he's just showing off in front of his friends -- but for whatever reason, he has taken your measure and decided he can best you.

He comes charging at you, with a nasty looking mace in his hand and a look of hatred on his face. Onlookers move back to make room for what should be an entertaining fight.

Quickly drawing your sword and shield, you wheel around to face him. He's upon you pretty quickly though, and you barely have time to raise your shield [hold right mouse button] before his first blow thunders down upon you.

But you block well, and as he recoils from the collision, you quickly perform left & right slashes with your sword [left click, pause, left click]. The bully realizes this isn't going to be easy.

He backs off a bit, and starts dodging around you. First to the left, then to the right. You maneuver to keep him in view, looking for an opening. Suddenly he steps back, raises his mace in both hands, and steps forward, bringing the mace towards your head in a crushing blow!

But you're quick -- you step to the side as he attacks. As he passes by, you execute a spinning maneuver and slash him in the side [hold left mouse button and left maneuver key]. The hit is solid, and your foe staggers from the blow.

But it's not over yet. The bully swings his mace wildly -- his first swing misses, but the next one connects for a blow that sends you staggering. Pressing his advantage, the bully bears down on you with a power attack of his own. OUCH. This isn't going well. You take a glance at your health meter, it's getting a bit low. You quickly back up out of the bully's reach and raise your shield [hold right mouse button].

He's hurting, too. You circle each other for a time, looking for an opening, trying to recover some fatigue. Finally the bully charges forward with a devastating overhead blow, perhaps hoping to break your shield. But the shield holds and the recoil send him staggering back. This is your chance! You perform a mighty forward power attack [hold the left mouse button, press forward] and connect solidly. The blow staggers your foe once again, and you perform 3 slashing attacks in rapid succession [left mouse button, pause, left mouse button, pause, left mouse button], and finally the bully collapses to the ground, defeated.

The crowd disperses, going back to their own business.
 

Hobz

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I'm really considering upping my pledge to a physical tier now. I can't help but wonder how great the game would have been had they raised a couple millions more.

Edit : aaaaand Vault Dweller just pisses on my hype and make me feel like a gullible popamole fanboy. :negative:
 

felipepepe

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The Faerie spins and tries to fly away, but Romulus is able to land a blow to one of the Faerie’s wings before it can get out of reach. The damage to the wing makes the Faerie’s flight unsteady; harder for it to maneuver outside of Romulus’ range. Romulus has achieved his first objective of the battle, to neutralize the Faerie’s advantage of flight.
I have zero faith in having locational damage, especially one that affects AI behavior like that...
 

Athelas

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That doesn't sound like A.I., just a different animation/move set.

Also, Bethesda already did it with VATS. :troll:
 
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Vats, morrowind... It all came to my mind when I've read the update. Also dark messiah, skyrim... but thes latter two came as the alternative to the former, which is what otherside already told it won't be their aproach.

Unless they come with something new no one ever heard/saw/imagined, which is what I would expect from original looking glass.
 

mindx2

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The Faerie spins and tries to fly away, but Romulus is able to land a blow to one of the Faerie’s wings before it can get out of reach. The damage to the wing makes the Faerie’s flight unsteady; harder for it to maneuver outside of Romulus’ range. Romulus has achieved his first objective of the battle, to neutralize the Faerie’s advantage of flight.
I have zero faith in having locational damage, especially one that affects AI behavior like that...

During our talk they told me specifically that melee fighting would not be a "pixel hunting" action game style where it's all about locational damage. They kept reiterating that this was not a FPS and that skill points (not player skill) or learned maneuvers (via training or scrolls, etc.) is the focus...
 
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Roguey

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Good to see them reiterate that they're making an undemanding underground walking sim.
 
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This is shitty news. You can make a good combat system with pretty much any approach (real time, turn based, action, tactics, etc), but you have to fit it to your game. If you are making a first person game, why would you have a slow combat system that depends mostly on your character's skill? Haven't people learned anything from Morrowind?
 

ZagorTeNej

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Good to see them reiterate that they're making an undemanding underground walking sim.

No, an exploration sim which (unlike Bethesduh) they excel at. Not that I'm surprised the difference is lost on someone who sinks hours into Skyrim but hates Thief games.
 

MicoSelva

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The Faerie spins and tries to fly away, but Romulus is able to land a blow to one of the Faerie’s wings before it can get out of reach. The damage to the wing makes the Faerie’s flight unsteady; harder for it to maneuver outside of Romulus’ range. Romulus has achieved his first objective of the battle, to neutralize the Faerie’s advantage of flight.
I have zero faith in having locational damage, especially one that affects AI behavior like that...
Yeah, that sounds far-fetched. Would be great if they actually made combat this way, but I do think it is viable with this kind of budget.
 
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Crooked Bee

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Yeah, that sounds far-fetched. Would be great if they actually made combat this way, but I do think it is vaiable with this kind of budget.

I actually wonder what their budget even is, given that they supposedly have some kind of external investor already aside from KS.
 

MicoSelva

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I doubt it oculd be more than a couple million dollars (including KS money) - probably less. But the money itself is a secondary concern - it is more important for how many work-hours they can pay with it. Such combat system would require multiple animation sets for creatures, which sounds rather time-consuming to make.
 

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