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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
6,083
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Asp Hole
"The game is filthy" because that's the about the intellectual reach the average woman has. Muh vagina!

That comment could well be marketing lingo, but I know what you mean. People who's reactions to fangless (which this game will be) artistic expression is "It's filthy" or "It's disgusting" have no business being in the entertainment business, or dealing with matters of adult nature. Their purpose is different, they need only gawk at the creations of better men, and market those with their indignation. Their deeper involvement is a disservice.
 
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santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,679
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
"The game is filthy" because that's the about the intellectual reach the average woman has. Muh vagina!

That comment could well be marketing lingo, but I know what you mean. People who's reactions to fangless (which this game will be) artistic expression is "It's filthy" or "It's disgusting" have no business being in the entertainment business, or dealing with matters of adult nature. Their purpose is different, they need only gawk at the creations of better men, and market those with their indignation. Their deeper involvement is a disservice.
It was said as marketing. Based on her old column on RPS, Cara's a big fan of filthy, as long as it's her kind of filth.
 

compvet24

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
83
Because the young vampires and humans in the game still care about this stuff. And being inclusive is cool

Ah yes, when I get turned into a vampire faced with the eternal concepts of immortality, ground-breaking supernatural abilities and other-worldly beings that revolutionize my world view and my entire understanding of what the world is, I will definitely still be worried about whether a man can stick his benis into another mans bunghole.
 

Nano

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
4,648
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
Because the young vampires and humans in the game still care about this stuff. And being inclusive is cool

Ah yes, when I get turned into a vampire faced with the eternal concepts of immortality, ground-breaking supernatural abilities and other-worldly beings that revolutionize my world view and my entire understanding of what the world is, I will definitely still be worried about whether a man can stick his benis into another mans bunghole.
Being a vampire in the WoD isn't all fun and games where you're joyriding through unlife, eating people because you can. Politics are still a thing for them. Or did you not notice all the faction drama in Bloodlines 1?
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,471
Iirc, politics and faction drama in Bloodlines 1 were about power, the masquerade, and how to govern vampire society, not what kind of fetishes are acceptable.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,563
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
giphy.gif

I got that beat:

2OxOcvw.gif
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,690
Because the young vampires and humans in the game still care about this stuff. And being inclusive is cool
Bullshit. I am not interested in people's sexuality whatsoever. Not unless I want to have sex with someone. Outside of that you can identify yourself however you see fit, even as a Borg, because that's how much I care "about this stuff". People who "care about this stuff" are just as suspicious as people who concern themselves with who goes to bed with whom or what kind of sex they like when they're together.

Ah yes, when I get turned into a vampire faced with the eternal concepts of immortality, ground-breaking supernatural abilities and other-worldly beings that revolutionize my world view and my entire understanding of what the world is, I will definitely still be worried about whether a man can stick his benis into another mans bunghole.
You hit nail on the head there. This is exactly why I liked Redemption so much. Bloodlines 2 seems to try so hard to "be inclusive, because it's cool" that it misses the stuff that makes the whole vampire theme actually interesting in the first place. Or for some reason they aren't talking about it as much, but I am not an optimist here.
 

Saerain

Augur
Patron
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
495
Because the young vampires and humans in the game still care about this stuff. And being inclusive is cool

Ah yes, when I get turned into a vampire faced with the eternal concepts of immortality, ground-breaking supernatural abilities and other-worldly beings that revolutionize my world view and my entire understanding of what the world is, I will definitely still be worried about whether a man can stick his benis into another mans bunghole.
Being a vampire in the WoD isn't all fun and games where you're joyriding through unlife, eating people because you can. Politics are still a thing for them. Or did you not notice all the faction drama in Bloodlines 1?
This... this doesn't seem like a disagreement, yet it's framed like one.
 

compvet24

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
83
I feel like the point is not coming across at all. Kine politics are not relevant to a vampiric being that has ascended humanity. You have much much more pressing issues than what the kine are doing, why would you care at all. It is explicitly mentioned in Bloodlines 1 that sexuality is not a concern of a vampire ('don't imagine Vesuvius would get a rise out of you, considering what you are').
Anyway why would it be a concern? Why would you still be tied to such worthless things, when you are dealing and processing this whole new world that has come before you. There are vampire power struggles, factions you must align with and attempting to avoid being killed while masquerading from the mass populace. Where on that ladder of priorities would human sexuality come into play? I can only imagine kine politics or the progressive flavor of the month would only be relevant to the kindred society if it indicated the possibility of the masquerade being breached.

But it will be all in Bloodlines 2 because the game is a sock-puppet, and its puppeteers are the ones who want to inject modern-day issues into a world where none of that would be relevant.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent Vatnik
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
24,574
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Reichskommissariat Russland ᛋᛋ
Iirc, politics and faction drama in Bloodlines 1 were about power, the masquerade, and how to govern vampire society, not what kind of fetishes are acceptable.
To be honest, *political* side of Bloodlines is kinda goofy.

Camarilla: we are the guardians of order! Thus, clown who want to diablerize the antediluvian is promoted to Prince of entire LA.
Anarchs: fuck Camarilla! We will fight for our freedom! Thus, those guys keep sitting at their shitty bar and whining.
Sabbat: we want to stop the tyranny of Elder ones! Thus, they enlist the most despicable thugs and employ Tzimisce with their unsound methods.
Chinks: we want to take hold in LA. Thus, they buy in all the hoax with the sarcophagus.

The game is basically about Jack swinging all the factions around his rod all laughing while at it.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
17,897
Location
大同
I can only imagine kine politics or the progressive flavor of the month would only be relevant to the kindred society if it indicated the possibility of the masquerade being breached.

But it will be all in Bloodlines 2 because the game is a sock-puppet, and its puppeteers are the ones who want to inject modern-day issues into a world where none of that would be relevant.
Eh, it can make sense depending on one's clan (e.g. Brujah) and path/road of enlightenment, but I'm certain that they'll stretch the lore as to bring it to the forefront.
 

compvet24

Educated
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
83
Eh, it can make sense depending on one's clan (e.g. Brujah) and path/road of enlightenment, but I'm certain that they'll stretch the lore as to bring it to the forefront.

I can definitely understand Brujah's like Damsel using concepts like Communism, since the whole Anarch movement seems to be an allegory for Communism anyway.
 

Nano

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
4,648
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
I do not wish to scare you, chaver, yet it seems that you are coming down with a case of philosophical idealism.
I think that you can't really argue with solipsism. Does that make me an idealist?
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,690
This might not be blindingly obvious to some of you because of your straightness, but sexuality is a political matter.
To vampires? They obviously have their preferences when it comes to who they want to eat or have relationships with (gay vampires, for example), but... that's it. "Sexuality as a political matter" is human point of view, since vampires don't have a sex drive. They are literally asexual, while being sexual fantasy (ironically enough). Vampires desire other things (blood, power, knowledge, survival). So forgive me when I say that blowing the whole LGBT thing, like it's somehow important for the setting, is missing the mark. Big time. I mean, we're talking about a situation where the game starts with you NOT being a human any longer, on a physical level.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
17,897
Location
大同
I do not wish to scare you, chaver, yet it seems that you are coming down with a case of philosophical idealism.
I think that you can't really argue with solipsism. Does that make me an idealist?
No, but thinking that thought (a.i. the political superstructure) precedes matter (a.i. the economic base) does. Sexuality, when politicized, serves as nothing more than a tool instrumentalized by the elites as to divide the masses (a.i. identity politics) and to exalt themselves (either as supposed emancipators on the left or as upholders of tradition on the right). Consequently, to say that sexuality is a political matter (or rather that it ought to be given that anything can be politicized), is nothing more than a display of false class consciousness (and ergo idealism).
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
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Messages
3,292
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Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
This might not be blindingly obvious to some of you because of your straightness, but sexuality is a political matter.
To vampires? They obviously have their preferences when it comes to who they want to eat or have relationships with (gay vampires, for example), but... that's it. "Sexuality as a political matter" is human point of view, since vampires don't have a sex drive. They are literally asexual, while being sexual fantasy (ironically enough). Vampires desire other things (blood, power, knowledge, survival). So forgive me when I say that blowing the whole LGBT thing, like it's somehow important for the setting, is missing the mark. Big time. I mean, we're talking about a situation where the game starts with you NOT being a human any longer, on a physical level.

This does not apply to the Toreador, those fuckers are definitly horny despite also using their sexuality to their advantage.
Vampires as a being of Mythos are linked to sexuality ever since they came up again in the 1800s-1900s. Mostly as a sexual predator type thing, although there are some out there theories about Vampires being a class metaphor.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,690
This does not apply to the Toreador, those fuckers are definitly horny despite also using their sexuality to their advantage.
O'rly? Because my understanding of vampires (at least in Vampire the Masquerade) was that vampires are impotent, although they have the option - or had, when I was last reviewing the rules - to pick a skill that allows their sexual organs to work. At cost of blood (which is more important to vampires than anything else). Also, feeding feels better for them than sex does for humans, so it's questionable why a vampire would prefer to have sex over drinking blood, unless they'd want to manipulate a human. But I am interested to see the evidence to the contrary.

Vampires as a being of Mythos are linked to sexuality ever since they came up again in the 1800s-1900s. Mostly as a sexual predator type thing, although there are some out there theories about Vampires being a class metaphor.
At this point I am not sure what you're getting at. While vampires in Vampire: The Masquerade are indeed predators who are part sexual fantasy in human imagination (this much is true, but I never said otherwise, so... *shrug*), they are also asexual.
 

neurosys

Barely Literate
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
2
In classic world of darkness, I think it was never quite explicit, but my impression was that vampires are not able to have physical sexual stimulation like humans do. It is mostly a psychological inferiority complex and pretense to show their sexuality even though not enjoying it like a human would do in physical way. It's sort of like a vampire having a fireplace in their dwelling, even though they are dreaded at looking at it because neither the warmth is pleasant, nor it brings them any sense of peace or safety, but just the opposite, the risk of Rötschreck - suffering psychosis from the fear of fire. A Toreador is no different. Their sexuality can only be possible as far as it is with a limp ex-reproduction organ (or maybe a fake erection using precious vitae) and a pretentious fake personality and charm to try to seduce their victim's (undead and alive) for whatever whimsical desire they want to achieve. Ultimately they are ever becoming just monster, or the beast, an accursed unholy creature whose sole existence is defined by addiction, pretense and fear, but they go to all lengths to hide this hopeless fact.
 
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Sarkile

Magister
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
1,380
This does not apply to the Toreador, those fuckers are definitly horny despite also using their sexuality to their advantage.
O'rly? Because my understanding of vampires (at least in Vampire the Masquerade) was that vampires are impotent, although they have the option - or had, when I was last reviewing the rules - to pick a skill that allows their sexual organs to work. At cost of blood (which is more important to vampires than anything else). Also, feeding feels better for them than sex does for humans, so it's questionable why a vampire would prefer to have sex over drinking blood, unless they'd want to manipulate a human. But I am interested to see the evidence to the contrary.
I'm not super up to date with 5E, since it sucks ass, but the only way to have children was to be super low gen in older school VTM. That allowed for actual Dhampirs, which were something like Ghouls without the need to ingest vampire blood. I think it was featured in Time of Thin Blood?
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
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Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
This does not apply to the Toreador, those fuckers are definitly horny despite also using their sexuality to their advantage.
O'rly? Because my understanding of vampires (at least in Vampire the Masquerade) was that vampires are impotent, although they have the option - or had, when I was last reviewing the rules - to pick a skill that allows their sexual organs to work. At cost of blood (which is more important to vampires than anything else). Also, feeding feels better for them than sex does for humans, so it's questionable why a vampire would prefer to have sex over drinking blood, unless they'd want to manipulate a human. But I am interested to see the evidence to the contrary.

Vampires as a being of Mythos are linked to sexuality ever since they came up again in the 1800s-1900s. Mostly as a sexual predator type thing, although there are some out there theories about Vampires being a class metaphor.
At this point I am not sure what you're getting at. While vampires in Vampire: The Masquerade are indeed predators who are part sexual fantasy in human imagination (this much is true, but I never said otherwise, so... *shrug*), they are also asexual.

Afaik they do it because they are just super hedonistic in 5e. They are impotent but those with excess choose to fuck for the hell of it with that warm touch ability.
As for the second point vampires + sex is a connection as old as modern thought about vampires. It wouldnt be weird for a political vampire rpg to get political about sex aswell. But the games writing is gonna suck since they cut Avellone even before the metoo shit so its not gonna matter much.
 

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