World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Nano]

No wonder this forum smells worse like a lockerroom sometimes almost all the time.

Look at this loser. Locker rooms have the smell of *men*, boyo.

 

[Ismaul]

And Mitsoda has a record for being a mess to work with, that's why they fired him from Alpha Protocol, so they should have probably done it earlier. It's speaks even against the guy that he got fired for the successor to the one project he got some acclaim.

Wow nigga. The project exists solely because of the quality of Mitsoda's pitch. That the project was even greenlighted speaks a lot for the guy. That he got fired, not him alone but the whole lot of competent staff, speaks not against him, but against management. That they're hiring randos to replace them is only more evidence for this.

Also the best character in Alpha Protocol, Steven Heck, is quite definitely in Mitsoda's style, and was kept like this by those who took over. Seems to me Mitsoda got fucked over on AP because of a conflict of vision between SEGA, Obsidian management, and what he was doing. With a new IP everyone wants to dictate direction, and Mitsoda is obviously quite bad at defending his own. Shit happened, don't know what exactly, but I'm not sure the blame lies entirely at Mitsoda's feet, if at all. It's likely we'll never hear his side of the story, 'cause he's a class act and quite shy. Didn't even talk shit about Paradox or Hardsuit Labs.


Mitsoda's a bro

 

[Storyfag]

The second option is obviously the more entertaining one.

No wonder this forum smells worse like a lockerroom sometimes almost all the time.

And that's bad because...?

Spoiler

 

[Harry Easter]

And that's bad because...?

Spoiler

Woah, okay. No kinkshaming, bud.

Look at this loser. Locker rooms have the smell of *men*, boyo.

Okay. Still no kinkshaming.

But locker rooms smell of sweat and piss, stagnation and tired and broken people.

Wow nigga. The project exists solely because of the quality of Mitsoda's pitch. [...]

Did you read the pitch? Seriously, I would like to read that. And I'm not saying that he didn't gave his all, but if he didn't had anything to show the investors, he should have known that he would set off one day, especially with a project this niché. I don't say he's bad as a lead, I mean I liked Dead State, but he's now a veteran of the industry, so he should at least know that the publishers have nothings again working their people to dead or violating every right imageniable, but you don't waste their money. So I'm not sure, if being a lead in a bigger project is really for him.

 

[Xelocix]

?? Opposite of reality.

Like a third of developers had to delay their games when Covid first hit due to social distancing restrictions which led to financial strain. Things have changed since the first wave, but at the start it was just as hard to find new work in the gaming industry as any other.

 

[Storyfag]

But locker rooms smell of sweat and piss, stagnation and tired and broken people.

Seriously, the RPG Codex
Does. Not. Scale. To. Your. Level.

 

[Harry Easter]

Seriously, the RPG Codex
Does. Not. Scale. To. Your. Level.

Okay, this made seriously laugh in a good way. Brofist^^?

 

[Eli_Havelock]

Let's see just the ones from my memory:

Either Dark Souls 1 or Demon Souls had to be rescued by Myazaki, who hadn't any experience as a director back then. And he came in late too, if I remember correctly.

Gothic 1 and 2 were also totally chaotic and it bite them in the ass when 3 came along.

Diablo 1 was a shitshow too, that turned into one big crunchfest. Half of the time it was programmed to be turnbased.

Starcraft 1 first preview got smashed too.

Game development most of the time is a big shitshow, but you don't see any of it. You only see the product and it's either good or bad, but you don't know how fucked up the devs were in the end from the stess and lack of sleep. And if there was any drama before, you forget it after two years.

As for Avellone and Mitsoda: Let's be honest, he just wrote a concept or one or two quests and peaced out. He hasn't done anything else for years now, so there probably wasn't a big cut, when they fired him. And Mitsoda has a record for being a mess to work with, that's why they fired him from Alpha Protocol, so they should have probably done it earlier. It's speaks even against the guy that he got fired for the successor to the one project he got some acclaim.

I don't have any more insights than you, but really, we can just wait ... or panicwank about the future of a game most people have barely on their radar*shrug.*

You're missing the point here. ALL of the titles you listed had talented people.

Aside from the talent who were fired and canceled, BL2 has nothing for talent but leftovers of other studios' failure, entire sections missing from their dev team, and hugbox clowns. The latter aren't known for their ability to make video games without routine self-victimization that they're so oppressed. They love it, too, since without that they'd have absolutely nothing that's marketable to anyone at all.

 

[Harry Easter]

You're missing the point here. ALL of the titles you listed had talented people.

We don't know that. And all the talent in the world doesn't make a good game. Look at Numenera. That game had very talented people working on it and then it went all down the shitter and it came out as a half-finished mess.

Aside from the talent who were fired and canceled, BL2 has nothing for talent but leftovers of other studios' failure, entire sections missing from their dev team, and hugbox clowns. The latter aren't known for their ability to make video games without routine self-victimization that they're so oppressed. They love it, too, since without that they'd have absolutely nothing that's marketable to anyone at all.

Who hurt you?

 

[Eli_Havelock]

You're missing the point here. ALL of the titles you listed had talented people.

We don't know that. And all the talent in the world doesn't make a good game. Look at Numenera. That game had very talented people working on it and then it went all down the shitter and it came out as a half-finished mess.

We do. There is a thing called Credits that lists the people who worked on a game. The titles you listed had talented people, who got to those positions because of their previous work success. You even cited one having to come to the rescue.

Aside from the talent who were fired and canceled, BL2 has nothing for talent but leftovers of other studios' failure, entire sections missing from their dev team, and hugbox clowns. The latter aren't known for their ability to make video games without routine self-victimization that they're so oppressed. They love it, too, since without that they'd have absolutely nothing that's marketable to anyone at all.

Who hurt you?

Your attempts to spin how untalented people can somehow make anything is certainly giving a try.

 

[Fenix]

Just a reminder for what now passes as a Narrative Lead for this game.

I have read the original article about some Rooney Rule abd someorganization that want something from AB, but don't understand exactly who want what?
Can someone explain, please? In simple English.

 

[Ismaul]

[Mitsoda]'s now a veteran of the industry, so he should at least know that the publishers have nothings again working their people to dead or violating every right imageniable, but you don't waste their money. So I'm not sure, if being a lead in a bigger project is really for him.

He wasn't management or project lead. He was narrative lead. This shit is not on him.

 

[deuxhero]

They fired their celebrity writers and replaced them with cheap never-beens, haven't had a lead designer in months, and a bunch of people are posting on glassdoor talking about how upper management has no idea what they're doing and turn-over is sky high and you think there are more catastrophic projects? Are you a Hardsuit employee?

Let's see just the ones from my memory:

Either Dark Souls 1 or Demon Souls had to be rescued by Myazaki, who hadn't any experience as a director back then. And he came in late too, if I remember correctly.

Miyazaki was director on Armored Core 4 (meh) and Armored Core For Answer (Awesome) before Demon's Souls came out.

 

[Eli_Havelock]

Just a reminder for what now passes as a Narrative Lead for this game.

I have read the original article about some Rooney Rule abd someorganization that want something from AB, but don't understand exactly who want what?
Can someone explain, please? In simple English.

It's not so much the article, it's the comments by the new Narrative Lead and her echo chamber.

Requiring talent and experience for positions that require those qualifications is dIsCrImInAtIoN to diversity hires. They really want an diversity to be equitably considered alongside anyone with proven experience.

That this may be why several key positions are still vacant, like Lead Game Designer and a couple of Producers. HSL absolutely NEEDS someone in those positions to ship the game. But unless there is an diversity hire with the required qualifications it would be dIsCrImInAtIoN to interview just anyone else qualified for the job. They can't afford to have a token diversity hire in the position and work around them, they can't hire on anyone qualified unless there is the diversity option.

Dev Hell achieved by quota bureaucracy. Well, one of many. This is probably why the Damsel character reveal was such a big thing for them.

 

[Semiurge]

Just a reminder for what now passes as a Narrative Lead for this game.

I have read the original article about some Rooney Rule abd someorganization that want something from AB, but don't understand exactly who want what?
Can someone explain, please? In simple English.

It's not so much the article, it's the comments by the new Narrative Lead and her echo chamber.

Requiring talent and experience for positions that require those qualifications is dIsCrImInAtIoN to diversity hires. They really want an diversity to be equitably considered alongside anyone with proven experience.

That this may be why several key positions are still vacant, like Lead Game Designer and a couple of Producers. HSL absolutely NEEDS someone in those positions to ship the game. But unless there is an diversity hire with the required qualifications it would be dIsCrImInAtIoN to interview just anyone else qualified for the job. They can't afford to have a token diversity hire in the position and work around them, they can't hire on anyone qualified unless there is the diversity option.

Dev Hell achieved by quota bureaucracy. Well, one of many. This is probably why the Damsel character reveal was such a big thing for them.

What are they afraid of? Without the diversity dogma the worst case is that they get "canceled" by the fringe elements, but make back the money they've already wasted. The ability of these lunatics to police themselves out of fear never ceases to amuse me. Look at them, destroying themselves! And they call themselves "Brave"...

 

[Flying Dutchman]

He wasn't management or project lead. He was narrative lead. This shit is not on him.

Agree. Players blaming Mitsoda for the obvious pipeline problems at Hardsuit and Paradox feels like their finger's pointing in the wrong direction.

Also, it's doubtful the Creative Director and the Paradox Producer would also have been given the boot if it was solely Mitsoda. The fact that Ellison quit not long after when there was obviously more writing to do also seems to confirm that at least she didn't think the problem was Mitsoda, quite the opposite.

I do think there's likely a management issue, the game's production and producers inspire negative confidence.

I would normally give Hardsuit an idiocy pass, but the Mitsoda-hype-then-fire and the other general fuckery turned "well, they're just idiots" into white hot "what a bunch of cunt-quivering rudderless parentfuckers sucking the blood from the Bloodlines franchise."

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Game development most of the time is a big shitshow, but you don't see any of it. You only see the product and it's either good or bad, but you don't know how fucked up the devs were in the end from the stess and lack of sleep. And if there was any drama before, you forget it after two years.

As for Avellone and Mitsoda: Let's be honest, he just wrote a concept or one or two quests and peaced out. He hasn't done anything else for years now, so there probably wasn't a big cut, when they fired him. And Mitsoda has a record for being a mess to work with, that's why they fired him from Alpha Protocol, so they should have probably done it earlier. It's speaks even against the guy that he got fired for the successor to the one project he got some acclaim.

Yeah, let's be honest... and be honest in that I'll echo what others put on your post: citations are needed for this.

LinkedIn refutes some of your comments, but to blame Mitsoda for Hardsuit's general bullshit and forcing him into a marketing-role-he-hated-then-fired-him is one clear example that directly speaks to how fucked up Hardsuit and Paradox are.

If the message here is "they were right to fire Mitsoda," ...maybe. After 3+ years? Did they vet him anymore than the other rapid-turnover hires? Or the new ones? Did they decide to fire him once they realized they'd gotten everything they needed? All good questions. Seriously doubt the answers are equally good.

But let's be honest... from all that can be seen of this dumpsterfire, it looks like being hired by Hardsuit often speaks indirectly of the quality of the applicant, and directly speaks to how Hardsuit must have some chimpanzee with a bananna up every orifice interviewing and approving prospective candidates.

Can't wait to see what that bastionia of shit from Mass Effect: Andromeda does to "improve" the narrative - talk about insult to injury and clear nepotism (thanks to quivering cunt and drafter-of-resumes-to-avoid "system designer" Erik Waaanamen).

Edit: Fuck Hardsuit Labs. Fuck Paradox. Fuck them both for what they're doing to Bloodlines 2. I hope the end result bends both companies over a table and then, a giant-sized Collector's Edition of Bloodlines 2 twisted and shaped into a giant spiked dildo is rolled in on a battering ram and jackhammers every hole in their screaming bodies.

Fuck them for giving hope for Bloodlines 2 and then torching that hope.

 

[Zombra]

If the message here is "they were right to fire Mitsoda," ...maybe. After 3+ years? Did they vet him anymore than the other rapid-turnover hires? Or the new ones? Did they decide to fire him once they realized they'd gotten everything they needed? All good questions. Seriously doubt the answers are equally good.

I don't have the citation handy, but when Ellison quit, there was some veiled shade thrown, something about "some controversial personnel changes that should have happened sooner," something like that.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

I don't have the citation handy, but when Ellison quit, there was some veiled shade thrown, something about "some controversial personnel changes that should have happened sooner," something like that.

Gimme them links

I find it hard to believe either Hardsuit or Paradox would throw shade at Mitsoda, tho*

* Sarcasm asterisk, but srsly, them links, gimme them

 

[Wunderbar]

And a Glass Door review from September, possibly written by Cara herself given the writing style and subject matter.

"Read the recent news, it’s all confusing for us too but good for design and story. just took too long to get rid of bad actors"

If that is Cara, quite the backstabbing of Mitsoda there, calling him and Cluney a couple of con men. Accurate, though, based on my assessment.

 

[Harthwain]

I don't have the citation handy, but when Ellison quit, there was some veiled shade thrown, something about "some controversial personnel changes that should have happened sooner," something like that.

This could mean anything though. Maybe she thought Mitsoda was an obstacle writing-wise and getting rid of him meant to pave an unrestricted access for her to do whatever she wanted with the story (and get in publisher/developer's good graces in the process)?

 

[Ol' Willy]

What are they afraid of? Without the diversity dogma the worst case is that they get "canceled" by the fringe elements, but make back the money they've already wasted. The ability of these lunatics to police themselves out of fear never ceases to amuse me. Look at them, destroying themselves! And they call themselves "Brave"...

The power of fringe elements is somewhat overrated, which is proven by success of KCD. Although, Vavra is Czech and Czechs are sane people - unlike Kwanzas

 

[Latelistener]

Personally I never wanted a sequel, but the problem is that even it wasn't, Paradox would still seek the old staff like Mitsoda and others to hype the new shit and people would still follow it to an inevitable disappointment.

I hope Mitsoda will get his shit together and join Inxile.

 

[whydoibother]

So is there any news on release?

 

[Wesp5]

Maybe she thought Mitsoda was an obstacle writing-wise and getting rid of him meant to pave an unrestricted access for her to do whatever she wanted with the story (and get in publisher/developer's good graces in the process)?

I don't believe that. I think in her first Twitter after she left she mentioned Mitsoda in a positive way!