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Vapourware Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 - vaporware VTMB sequel from Paradox Interactive

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by vortex, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    I agree with that, the maps that I have seen and that were shown in the demo looked good enough for an Unreal 4 engine game. I suspect some of the design decisions were not working in the end, like the emphasis on melee with weapons that would break or firearms that you would throw away if they were empty. Or the three different ways of traversal disciplines around which the map designers needed to build all maps. Which they just couldn't realistically so mid-development it was announced that all players would be able to use all three ways which of course made the thinbloods even more powerful which kind of went against the whole idea to start with a low level character. I hope they can keep Mitsoda's story and will just bring the gameplay closer to Bloodlines 1, maybe with more satisfying combat...
     
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  2. Vincente Scholar

    Vincente
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    Like Hardsuit?
     
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  3. Ibn Sina Savant Patron

    Ibn Sina
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    Strap Yourselves In
    Taleworlds will develop VTMB.
     
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  4. Lambach Arcane

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    Giving it to a new and untested studio has a 90% chance of resulting in a shitty game, but also a 10% chance of resulting in something that can actually be called a worthy Bloodlines sequel.

    Giving it to a studio that the Paradox's CEO considers a "very reputable developer" has an absolute, 100% infallible chance of resulting in a game so mediocre and boring that it won't be worth anyone's time to even make fun of it, let alone anything else.

    Dunno about you, but I'd roll the dice on the former. It would probably be cheaper for Paradox as well, since they can get away with paying this new, unknown studio peanuts. It's not like Bloodlines 2 is actually going to make them any money, no matter what they do and how good the final product is, not after how they completely botched the original Hardsuit/Mitsoda version and completely killed all the interest and hype among the vast majority of potential customers. The best they can hope for is a Duke Nukem Forever-type of situation.
     
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  5. Gargaune Magister

    Gargaune
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    :negative:
     
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  6. Vincente Scholar

    Vincente
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    Did they get away with paying Hardsuit, an unknown studio, peanuts? So your best suggestion is giving the project to bunch of no-name studios until they hit the jackpot? Why not give it to actual people who have experience making such games? At least they can (probably) deliver, unlike Hardsuit.
    Why are you shifting the blame towards Paradox though? Hardsuit themselves made a pitch, Paradox liked it, and Hardsuit failed to deliver this product.
     
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  7. Lambach Arcane

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    No, my best suggestion is to just bury the whole thing, pretend it never happened and stop shitting on our collective memories of the original Bloodlines. But apparently, Paradox is not willing to do that, so we have to settle for the next best thing.

    Name 1 (one) studio with experience in making such games that you think can pull off a worthy sequel. And not just "deliver", in the sense of accomplishing the bare minimum of pushing some boring, mediocre turd out the door, but "deliver" in the sense of creating a worthwhile sequel of comparable quality to the original.

    I worded that poorly, I didn't mean to imply Paradox were primarily to blame for the fuck-up and I agree it was mostly on Hardsuit. But the fact remains that any and all hype for Bloodlines 2 is dead and gone, so really, Paradox stands to make pretty much nothing on it, regardless of how it eventually comes out. They're not Activision or Ubisoft whose annual Far Call of Dutycry release is guaranteed to make a gazillion dollars no matter what, they're pitching a fairly niche game to a fairly niche crowd and need all the good will they can get - good will that they've completely squandered if you ask me, regardless of whose fault it was.
     
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  8. normie Arcane Patron Zionist Agent

    normie
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    Insert Title Here
    I hope it's Akella

    or Running With Scissors
     
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  9. Vincente Scholar

    Vincente
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    I do agree that Paradox should have named this game something other than Bloodlines 2, and I also want this dead and buried, but if they can release something that has the quarter of atmosphere Bloodlines did, and the writing is good (I heard that Heart of the Apocalypse game had good writing for WtA standards), they can release what they want, I don't really care.

    Just dream studios, or possible studios? I'll do both:
    Dream Studios: Wolfeye, Piranha Bytes, Harebrained Schemes(with Mitsoda)
    Out of possible studios, I have no idea, I'm sure an industry shark like Roguey would know better, but I'd say Spiders, maybe. Paradox is already set on a dev though, so this is all pointless to discuss.
    They used good will by trusting their flagship game to a bunch of no-names who had a good pitch idea, and it's clear that it didn't work out.
     
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  10. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Wesp5
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    Somebody working on Bloodlines 2 told me that in the end Paradox didn't want the game they ordered in the beginning so they are indeed to blame to some extent!
     
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  11. Larianshill Arbiter

    Larianshill
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    What do you mean?
     
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  12. Vincente Scholar

    Vincente
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    I seriously doubt that Paradox wanted guns to be temporary power ups, like in the last tech demo Hardsuit showed.
     
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  13. Caim Arcane

    Caim
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    They hired Cleve, didn't they?
     
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  14. Lambach Arcane

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    Tbh, this may be equally of a problem of both the modern writers/developers and the setting they're going with. Bloodlines largely owes its atmosphere to its source material, which was written mostly during the nineties and was influenced by the "new millennium dread" zeitgeist of the time, along many other typically 90's things. If you're going with modern source material being adapted by modern writers/developers, you're just shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to replicating that atmosphere. No doubt that some team out there somewhere could pull it off, but I can't think of a single well-known one that fits the bill.

    But to reiterate, I'd much rather have anything Bloodlines-related buried and in Torpor (har-har) than having it butchered by some talentless, semi-literate dangerhair millennials.

    Bruh. PB are good when it comes to world-building, but they're hopeless when it comes to writing quality dialogues, characters, plots etc, which was Bloodlines' main strength (Bloodlines didn't have to do world-building because it borrowed it from the PnP). As if all the Gothic and Risen games aren't proof of this. ELEX too.

    Both Harebrained Schemes and Mitsoda are waaaaay past their prime. Hong Kong was already a noticeable drop in writing quality compared to Dragonfall (though Racter and Gaichu are the best two characters they've written, hands down) and the most recent stuff they're doing is banal, boring shit like fucking Battletech and Necropolis. The Mitsoda couple's "Dead State" alone is proof that Brain is but a shadow of what he once was (assuming he was ever anything worthwhile to begin with and not just a credit-hog).

    I don't think Wolfeye fit the bill of a well-known studio, tbh.

    It ain't gonna work out with the kind of studio that Paradox CEO is describing either, and that's a guarantee. They might push a complete product out sometime in 2023, but it's going to be forgotten and in the bargain bin 2 weeks post-release, tops. Paradox are playing it safe, which is understandable from the perspective of your average corporate suit, but it pretty much certainly guarantees a bland, color-by-the-numbers game that will be neither bad nor good enough to be remembered for long. Kinda like Inxile's initially overhyped Numa Numa that maybe 5 people in the world have any memory of today.
     
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  15. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

    Storyfag
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    Dear Caine, let it not be THAT horrendous.
     
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  16. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    The source material is trash, anything that's adapted from it will also be trash.
    Seems pretty simple to me.
     
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  17. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

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    Eh, I've already seen good PnP sessions utilising V5. While the basic premise IS trash, V5 still retains the majority of the juicy details earlier editions had. Just avoid stuff like Rudi and all will be well.
     
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  18. jungl Augur

    jungl
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    original bloodlines was a basic early 2000 bioware clone tier wrpg but with with the troikia jank. You visit 3 hubs then conclude the game in a final one. Had shit combat and dumbass design decisions that rewarded persuasion/stealth too much. They can give it to just about any developer and they would make a "worthy" sequel.

    Jade empire, arcanum and other early 2000 titles were superior games
     
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  19. ColaWerewolf Novice

    ColaWerewolf
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    It's possible and even most likely that she is a vampire. Grout was just a psychiatrist, not some Mr Freeze uberscientist. With that in mind, it really makes no sense why he would put her on ice if she had a terminal disease. She'd die either way. In fact the only way she could survive being put on ice like that is if she were a vampire.
    So let's say she gets a terminal disease, he doesn't know how to fix it, ends up Embracing her as the last available option, then puts her on ice until he can figure out a vampirism cure. He even talks about finding a "cure to this affliction".

    "So impressed were they that they even offered me an office in their government... a rather high office by the sound of things. I believe I shall accept. If nothing else, it should provide a lofty vantage point... from which to observe the breadth and epidemiology of the afflictions... so that I may move more expeditiously toward a cure."

    "Convincing enough" doesn't inspire much confidence considering that the previous bar was already set pretty low by Hardsuit. This and his comment about co-financing options makes me believe that they really haven't found a good developer to work with on this.
     
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  20. Sratopotator Savant

    Sratopotator
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    Jade whatever-the-fuck Empire? You have to work on your bait posts a bit :D
     
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  21. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

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    This is a decent interpretation, I will grant you that. Personally I always assumed she just died and he put her in formaldehyde but, being of unstable mind, didn't quite register the event as death, so still hoped for a cure.
     
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  22. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    The only reason it isn't cancelled is because they already spent the pre-order money.
     
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  23. jungl Augur

    jungl
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    Ya jade empire had better gameplay then that storyfag game bloodlines. Look I realize a lot of posters here have autism about vampires and enjoyed being weird sleeping in graveyards as a teen watching twilight and all that jazz but the reality of the situation folks is that bloodlines was a mediocre game. I was there day 1 and the game wasn't even playable without a patch or two.
     
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  24. Black Arcane

    Black
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    Zoomers call anything that has text in it story driven nowadays.
     
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  25. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    Good news, if you it was Unreal then all of the "code" would be visual flow charts called blueprints. :lol:
     
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