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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Swansong - narrative RPG from The Council devs - now on Steam

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The inevitable Hellion review: https://ragequit.gr/en/reviews/item/vampire-the-masquerade-swansong-review/

VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE – SWANSONG

A new Vampire: The Masquerade game by the creators of The Council, 2018's quite unique Narrative Adventure game, is noteworthy news in itself. The value of this news is further enhanced by the facts that this particular project clearly places more emphasis on RPG features (most other Vampire games released recently were linear visual novels, after all), and that the main, long-awaited RPG release on the franchise, Bloodlines 2, has turned more or less into a farce by now. Without exaggeration, in terms of broader presentation, Vampire: The Masquerade - Swansong, which officially launches tomorrow the 19th, has unironically ended up being the closest thing we've seen so far to the legendary VtM Redemption and Bloodlines.

The above, of course, does not mean that we are dealing with a complete, "old-school", open-world RPG. The core of Swansong is still closer to The Council than to Bloodlines, with the result being more accurately described as a "Narrative RPG" in the VtM universe. What exactly does that mean? Read on and find out!


That's what she said. Literally.

The events of Swansong take place in Boston in September 2019 (an innocent, ancient and forgotten time, without plagues, masks and antiseptics). Boston's Camarilla Prince has closed an extremely important deal with the Tremere Chantry of neighboring Hartford, with a party thrown to cap and celebrate the whole affair. Suddenly, the local Kindred receive a "Red Alert" message: hostile forces are on the move, and apparently something has gone VERY wrong at the party. It is at this exact moment that our own participation in Swansong begins, with the three main characters having arrived at the local Camarilla headquarters to see what this alarm is all about, and to receive further instructions from the Prince.

VtM fans can imagine what we'll encounter in the next three in-game days: interaction with Kindred belonging to the most well-known Clans, saturating our Hunger by "farming" humans, dealing with vampire hunters, intrigue and backstabbing between Camarilla and the Anarchs or even between seemingly allied members of the same factions... and choices that will have a decisive impact on the World State in the game's finale.

The three protagonists of Swansong gathered together for the first time, and only time now that I think about it, throughout the game.

Those who've played The Council will more or less know what to expect from Swansong in terms of gameplay, although there are obviously some variations that adapt the game to the VtM background and the rules of the 5th Edition Corebook. Swansong essentially consists of a sequence of levels/scenes, through which we navigate in a 3rd-person perspective like in a typical Action-RPG (without combat, of course), and in each of which we control one of three different protagonists: a Kindred of Clan Ventrue, a Toreador and a Malkavian. Each of the above characters has its own separate Character Sheet with Skills and the unique Disciplines of its Clan, all of which we will use while navigating the world and talking to NPCs.

The use of Skills subtracts points from our Willpower pool, a stat that can be replenished mainly through consumables. Using Disciplines in the same context increases the Hunger meter, which can be reduced either by using certain rare consumables or, mainly, through the traditional "harvesting" of blood from mortals. Ideally we want to make sure that our current character's Hunger is constantly at an acceptable level, because reaching the maximum increases the chances of awakening "The Beast", which would result in our character attacking the first mortal that comes into sight.

Special mention should also be made of the Suspicion stat, which literally refers to how suspicious the wider world is of the existence of Kindred as a result of our actions. Suspicion increases if we do things that put the Masquerade at risk, such as neglecting to collect various incriminating items from the game's levels, feeding on rats, and more. As Suspicion increases, various penalties are applied to our Skill Rolls throughout the game.


The "harvesting" of blood is done through an ultra-simple Quick-Time Event that requires holding down a button until the desired amount of blood has been sucked. Under ideal circumstances we don't completely drain our victims, because corpses increase Suspicion.

The relatively linear succession of the Scenes doesn't necessarily mean that each game level is small in size (on the contrary, some of them could easily be levels in Bloodlines), and neither does it mean that navigating each Scene is equally linear. Particularly after the initial, introductory Scenes, the obstacles we encounter along the way can be overcome in more than one ways, depending on the stats we choose to raise on each character, and the overall kind of playthrough we wish to follow. There is also, depending on our skills and choices, the possibility of fulfilling optional and/or mutually exclusive objectives, which either enrich our knowledge of world events or directly affect events in the game's progression. Along with gaining XP to further enhance our skills, obviously.


At the end of each Scene we receive a "debriefing" with a summary of the objectives we completed, the alternatives we could have pursued, and any failures. Also note the Traits, which are acquired by completing specific objectives.

Leaving aside all the vampiric stuff that come with the franchise, Swansong is a detective story at its core, and in that regard I think it does quite well. The general writing of the plot and characters isn't really something to be mentioned in the next Nobel Prize awards, and it certainly has some gameplay missteps (mainly concerning some puzzles that feel slightly off), but truth be told, the way we navigate each level and collect clues and items in order to complete our objectives actually reminded me a bit of the recent Sherlock Holmes Chapter One game. Even if we bring the vampires back into the picture though, it's still just as good in its implementation of the atmosphere and special gameplay you'd expect from a Vampire game. I wrote in the opening paragraphs that, while by no means a "full-on and traditional" RPG, Swansong might be the closest thing we've seen to Bloodlines in terms of its broader VtM atmosphere, and I fully believe that, even if it doesn't really say much as a fact in itself, given the state of the "competition" it's compared with.


Each of the game's largest Scenes contains at least one choice like this, which can have short-term or long-term consequences.

If there is one area where Swansong is most lacking, this might be the technical area. In terms of graphics, in particular, I encountered a paradox in the game: while the environments and level design are from beautiful to perhaps even flawless at times, the same quality is certainly not observed in the character models, whose design and animation made me feel at times as if I was playing Obsidian's Alpha Protocol back in 2010. On the audio side, I would describe the voice-acting as... tolerable, "so-so", without being outright terrible but also not really impressing with the fidelity of the performances. Apart from that, I noticed my PC's temperatures rising to oddly high levels at random moments while playing, and I also encountered some, thankfully not game-breaking bugs and glitches (although one of them made me fall into the "void" bellow a level, forcing me to restart that particular Scene and lose 30-40 minutes of progress). It's also worth mentioning that, for some reason, I couldn't skip Dialogues and Cutscenes in the game by pressing the dedicated button that exists for this purpose, but... I'm not entirely sure if this is a bug or a feature!

As a "partial negative" one could also point out the unevenness of the Scenes in terms of how "juicy" they are. For example, there are some lengthy Scenes that offer a plethora of objectives and require a lot of thinking and time to navigate through, and others that can literally be waltzed through in 5-10 minutes. However, most of the time this serves the needs of the narrative, so I guess it's an indirect admission of the fact that... maybe deep down I simply wanted to play the game longer.


Preach.

The truth is that I went into Swansong with the barest of expectations, expecting a "glorified walking simulator with RPG elements" in the world of Vampire: The Masquerade. What I ultimately saw in the 20 or so hours it took me to complete the first playthrough (surely at least one more will be required in the future) satisfied me far more. The 50 euros that Epic Store is asking for it at the moment may seem a bit too much based on what it offers, but there's no doubt that it does quite well as a Narrative RPG with real choices and significant consequences, which obviously doesn't match the depth, wit and humor of Bloodlines, but nevertheless we have to acknowledge that... it tries, in its own way.

Bloodlines 2 may never be actually released. Almost out of nowhere, Swansong comes as a "light" substitute, offering a generous portion of the almost forgotten feeling of playing a new VtM RPG. Despite its flaws, it's a solid realization of the atmosphere of mystery and supernatural horror that a Vampire title ought to have.

We would like to thank AVE Group for providing us with the review code for the game.








77%
The Beast is sated... for now.
 

Sunri

Liturgist
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Apr 16, 2020
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Poland
5qaiDSC.png
hahaha wtf
 

marek

Educated
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Jan 12, 2020
Messages
49
What is this thing? It's uglier than even a tranny.

Vitiligo, its a skin condition with complete pigmentation loss, but only on parts of the skin (unlike albinism). Looks most striking on darker skinned people. Not that uncommon actually, but many use cosmetics to hide it day-to-day.
 
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jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,534
Ye it's woke beyond any reasonable measure if that's even a thing but I'm still interested if there's a decent game under that, like in xcom chimera case for example.

By the way, oogabooga is toreador. Makes sense.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
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Ye it's woke beyond any reasonable measure if that's even a thing
All the vampire-themed games made in the last several years I could find were made with woke sensibilities by fragile snowflakes. First Bite has everyone except the ultra masculine manly man use "they" pronouns. Red Embrace Hollywood lets you pick your pronouns. Blah blah blah.

I checked out the REH discord out of sheer boredom/desperation and some months after joining I got banned after I accidentally pissed off a fragile snowflake with pre-existing mental health issues by calmly stating that I disagreed with them about something and I wasn't interested in arguing the point any further. I was hugely surprised when they suddenly blew up and I went out of my way to contact this person and ask if they were okay. When I contacted the mods to appeal my case, they told me I didn't actually do anything wrong and (paraphrasing) they're just too fragile to handle me. Also, their moderation system was complete shit: you get a permanent strike for the stupidest most minor and most subjective things (like making someone else feel subjectively unhappy or not formatting your texts correctly) where other discords would give you friendly advice to adjust your behavior, and once you get three then you're banned. For reference, REH itself involves horrific shit like rape, suicide, serial murder, cannibalism and similar gruesome topics.

So yeah, fuck those fragile snowflakes and fuck their fragile snowflake games. I am an adult who works a 9-5 job in the real world. I shouldn't be forced to be an eggshell-walking therapist for lunatic zoomers on the internet when I just want to play and discuss entertainment games.
 

Storyfag

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Better try one of the text games like Night Road or Parliament of Knives, or hell, that Red Embrace VN if you want the Bloodlines feel, you'll get more bang for your buck.
All those games are awful and if they're trying to replicate the feel (which is debatable), they failed. We should make our own games. Not just because Paradox's IP sucks, but because competition is necessary for a healthy market in general. I'm currently trying myself, so here's coping.

FTFY
 

RaggleFraggle

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Better try one of the text games like Night Road or Parliament of Knives, or hell, that Red Embrace VN if you want the Bloodlines feel, you'll get more bang for your buck.
All those games are awful and if they're trying to replicate the feel (which is debatable), they failed. We should make our own games. Not just because Paradox's IP sucks, but because competition is necessary for a healthy market in general. I'm currently trying myself, so here's coping.

FTFY
Even if I don’t succeed on the first try, it still feels way more satisfying than doing nothing. Sitting around and complaining certainly doesn’t accomplish anything. Waiting around for someone else to do the work hasn’t worked so far.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,425
All the vampire-themed games made in the last several years I could find were made with woke sensibilities by fragile snowflakes. First Bite has everyone except the ultra masculine manly man use "they" pronouns. Red Embrace Hollywood lets you pick your pronouns. Blah blah blah.

I checked out the REH discord out of sheer boredom/desperation and some months after joining I got banned after I accidentally pissed off a fragile snowflake with pre-existing mental health issues by calmly stating that I disagreed with them about something and I wasn't interested in arguing the point any further. I was hugely surprised when they suddenly blew up and I went out of my way to contact this person and ask if they were okay. When I contacted the mods to appeal my case, they told me I didn't actually do anything wrong and (paraphrasing) they're just too fragile to handle me. Also, their moderation system was complete shit: you get a permanent strike for the stupidest most minor and most subjective things (like making someone else feel subjectively unhappy or not formatting your texts correctly) where other discords would give you friendly advice to adjust your behavior, and once you get three then you're banned. For reference, REH itself involves horrific shit like rape, suicide, serial murder, cannibalism and similar gruesome topics.

So yeah, fuck those fragile snowflakes and fuck their fragile snowflake games. I am an adult who works a 9-5 job in the real world. I shouldn't be forced to be an eggshell-walking therapist for lunatic zoomers on the internet when I just want to play and discuss entertainment games.

Its all fantasy man chill. Would a competitive secret society of predators even have women? No despite how much you heighten their senses or whatever they make worse cooks, hair cutters etc then men.
 

gerey

Arcane
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Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
Its all fantasy man chill.
"It's magic, I gotta explain shit" is a retard excuse to use. And yes, sometimes saying "He's a fucking wizard" is enough of an explanation, there's really no hard rule in place, but even the most basic application of common sense ought to clue you in what audiences need to have explained and what they don't.

Most people (in the West) have a general idea of what a vampire is and what he can and can't do: vampires drink human blood, sunlight hurts them, they cast no reflection in mirrors, dislike garlic etc. The further away you move from this general idea, the more effort you need to put into explaining the how and they why.

Authors don't need to vomit exposition concerning every single detail of the setting, the audience doesn't need to suffer through the minutiae of how vampires function on a biological level as told by someone with PhD in biology, but if your vampires keep calling each other some retarded, made-up pronoun, you better sit your ass down and explain why they do so and how such a thing came to be.

Just because an element in your story is fantastical does not invalidate the need to justify its existence in a way that doesn't violate the rules of the fictional world you're creating.
 

RaggleFraggle

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Most people (in the West) have a general idea of what a vampire is and what he can and can't do
There’s also vampires from folklore around the world to change things up. Tlahuelpuchi, lamia, gaki, jiangshi, obayifo, asanbonsam, strigoi, moroi… Encyclopedia of Vampire Mythology by Theresa Bane is a good start (the intro includes a dissection of the definition of “vampire” to explain why the 600 entries are present). You can buy the ebook for $15–$20 on most ebook stores.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,534
5qaiDSC.png
hahaha wtf
To be fair, that's she about to say that to her "daughter". The (shortened) replies are like that there (uhh). Although not too short after that we find out about some other lesbo-relationship so poof - the balance is restored. Unless you're talking about her appearance which is yes, very ugly. I mean, when you play a game like Chimera - who cares but this cinematic type? Just look at these another beaaatiful proud representatives of Toreador (!) blood:
112FB0B10384598F85E6B63287BF09D24B32898D
D6CA56B508DB1C2C906B440E24F8D89A7AF347D3

:lol::lol:
Could you perhaps choose some other clan at least for your inclusive matters? Eh, who am I kidding.

Anyway, about the game itself. I'm several hours in and it's not that awful actually (if we somehow turn the blindeye on all aforementioned stuff including character design, the cast etc) but I wish they've chosen not to do the *cinematic* approach (or did it considerably better). They just couldn't pull it off: the animations are incredibly stiff, both face ones and general, even the enviroment looks too cheap. Voice acting is also lacking so far, both casting choices and the perfomances themselves. So it just not working as a whole. Some visual effects for disciplines are very good though. And of course, the mechanics since they've been carried over from tabletop I beleive. So the character development and actual use of skills/talents is pretty good even though we develop 3 character at the same time with only little difference in disciplines potentially speaking.

By the way, people like to criticize Witcher games and other ones where said development poorly combines with the narrative and here we have perhaps the worst case ever because all 3 main characters despite being embraced not yesterday (oogabooga tend to behave herself like she was though) have their skills almost zeroed out. While NPCs aren't and we can even check that:
35C2E9654BEE214BBB4B42E9AC0E9CDBD49C9658

this "dauther" is better than her "mom" at everything, how's that?

Too early to judge the writing - even that the first quest/scene makes little sense you could chalk it up as a tutorial.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,626
I don't mind the narrative style game, its not Vampire: Bloodlines but mostly about investigation - i.e. you have to like reading, intrigue, mystery & investigation. However i absolutely hate the save game system (or more: the lack thereof). Your only option: Completely restart a level, or continue from autosave. This might be ok if the game was bug-free, but sadly its not.

Example: In the very first level, I ran into a bug: an invisible wall stops access to an alclove (its open, you can look inside but you cannot walk there). According to guides, you are supposed to get in, look at a shawl and thats it. But for some reason, likely a skript not firing, i cannot. Since the game uses a single savegame & auto-overwrites it, i cannot reload the a previous checkpoint but have to restart the whole level in the hopes i won't trigger this bug next time. Dialogue - at least in the intro level - cannot be skipped (despite a message saying hold space to skip, but nothing happens). Means i have to go through the same full dialogues again and hope i won't run into the same bug twice. Don't have the nerve to do that today, but its a very stupid savegame design even without bugs.

Also couldn't find a community forum or similar, so no way to report the bug or find out how to circumvent it...
Do you want me to write you a program that automatically backs up the file?
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,626
1) If someone wants to play ironman, that should be his choice & not forced upon them. I dislike this paternalistic bs thats forcing me to jump through hoops (manually copy autosave files)
2) Replays take ages, since the "skip dialogue" option doesn't work
3) Bugs are real. I wasted ~40 minutes just because i didn't follow the playtest sequence (apparently "drink blood, get into alclove, drink blood again" vs drink blood x2, get into alclove). Not choice & consequence, but trying to find a bug-free path

I haven't played Swansong yet, but I often have the impression that developers cripple their save game system on purpose to artificially prolong short games. Maybe this is the case here too?
More play time means more social algorithm clicks and less chance of refund.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Most people (in the West) have a general idea of what a vampire is and what he can and can't do: vampires drink human blood, sunlight hurts them, they cast no reflection in mirrors, dislike garlic etc. The further away you move from this general idea, the more effort you need to put into explaining the how and they why.

Authors don't need to vomit exposition concerning every single detail of the setting, the audience doesn't need to suffer through the minutiae of how vampires function on a biological level as told by someone with PhD in biology, but if your vampires keep calling each other some retarded, made-up pronoun, you better sit your ass down and explain why they do so and how such a thing came to be.
vtmb handles this exact situation in about 15 seconds

"Well, you can still be destroyed, but forget the books and the movies. Garlic? It's worthless. Cross? Pfft... shove it right up their asses. A stake? Only if it catches you in the heart, and then it just paralyzes you. Running water? Ah, that's no problem. I bathe... Occasionally.
 

gerey

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
3,472
"Well, you can still be destroyed, but forget the books and the movies. Garlic? It's worthless. Cross? Pfft... shove it right up their asses. A stake? Only if it catches you in the heart, and then it just paralyzes you. Running water? Ah, that's no problem. I bathe... Occasionally.
It does the exposition bit in a very concise way, but it's also basically crossing out weaknesses the audience expects vampires to have based on established storytelling tropes. The developers included that exact line of dialogue because they knew people were going to see "vampire" in the title and start the game with certain expectations.

Another good example is the Legacy of Kain games, and specifically Soul Reaver. The vampires there are different to a degree, but the game elegantly showcases and encourages the player to figure out the weaknesses of vampires (sunlight, water, impalement) and is crucial to defeating enemies.

Overcoming the inherent weaknesses of the protagonist's decrepit vampire body is also a big part of the narrative and the exploration aspect of the game.

There's nothing really preventing you from making vampires be whatever you want them to be, they're fictional after all, so long as you keep in mind that people will have certain preconceptions when they hear the word "vampire", which must be taken into account when introducing them to your story.
 

SumDrunkGuy

Guest
So you play as a nigress, a tranny, and a guy who literally has "gay" in his name. I can't believe you fags are entertaining this trash. This place was supposed to be prestigious. I'm disgusted with all of you.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,773
Would a competitive secret society of predators even have women? No despite how much you heighten their senses or whatever they make worse cooks, hair cutters etc then men.
Female praying mantises and spiders eat their male mates. I would say female vampires conceptually fit right in as predators. Evenmoreso considering that sex matters much less (if at all) for vampires.

Even if I don’t succeed on the first try, it still feels way more satisfying than doing nothing. Sitting around and complaining certainly doesn’t accomplish anything. Waiting around for someone else to do the work hasn’t worked so far.
You remind me of the guy who constantly talks about the books he's going to write. I haven't seen him writing them though. He's constantly stuck in the "I am gathering the source materials" phase. He also complains about not having much time to write, despite being retired (a few months at this point). Surprisingly enough it didn't stop him from picking up painting as his second hobby. The worst part? He still constantly tries to talk about these "books" of his at any opportunity. It guess THAT is the whole point. As long as it is an idea, it is more enticing than doing the actual work. Or having to commit it to a particular shape or form.
 
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ChildInTime

Learned
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
619
Ok. played some more and it gets better by the end, though the animations are still terrible and I'm pretty sure they haven't had the time to properly finish the game. Some character and story spoilers.
At least it doesn't shy away from some fucked up shit both vampires and hunters are up to, but almost everyone on the vamp side still acts like a fucking idiot, except the Ventrue protag... again. His personal story about embracing his asian girlfriend and dealing with the creepy old 'son' was pretty alright, he is also the one who deals with the main bad guy and delivers a smack down speech about mortals being sheep and all, cool guy. Kinda liked the Malk girl storyline with her 'daughter', which seemed really obvious at first, but took a turn I wasn't expecting, she also got saddled with that stealth werewolf section, 'just like Bloodlines', eh? The Toreador was the most boring of the three, with her fat lesbian sire being the main point of the conflict, that went sorta nowhere even if you learn that she really was the traitor.
As before - wouldn't really recommend it, but if you are dying for more vtm and played everything there is under the moon...
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Played the first couple hours. Really like what I see so far. A few random thoughts:
  • No previews/reviews I've seen talk about the fact that the three PCs don't like each other and have different agendas, which is fantastic. It really makes me wonder how divergent the story can get. Will some characters achieve their goals but not others, depending on how I handle things? Even if not, the switching perspectives is very engaging.
  • There is a ton of background material to read, including the birthplace and history of every major character introduced so far. It's a little exhausting tbh but this is a good problem to have.
  • There is a lot of environmental stuff to read too. Financial reports, security briefings, etc. The Council demanded a very high level of comprehension to solve its puzzles. I hope Swansong will challenge me just as much.
  • At the beginning at least, scarcity is very real. My characters are only good at one or two things and I am constantly failing skill checks and being denied access to clues and information I don't have the right abilities for. It's great and makes me feel good when I can actually pass a test. It's also very motivating. I want that xp to get better at things!
  • The three PCs are all interesting in their own ways and I want to see how all three stories develop.
  • "Fail forward" is super real. There are no roadblocks to moving the story forward so far, which means it is all on me to succeed or fail, be thorough or sloppy, etc. along the way. It's great.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
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Apr 11, 2020
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Asp Hole
just don't want any issues if I throw more than 2 swears / video.

Oh yeah, "swears". It's easy to forget they are a factor when calculating content ratings.

Could you perhaps choose some other clan at least for your inclusive matters? Eh, who am I kidding.

When trannies write a game, you're damn right they're going to fixate on being stunning. Toreador is a natural choice for cut-rate Ru Pauls.
 

RaggleFraggle

Ask me about VTM
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,036
You remind me of the guy who constantly talks about the books he's going to write. I haven't seen him writing them though. He's constantly stuck in the "I am gathering the source materials" phase. He also complains about not having much time to write, despite being retired (a few months at this point). Surprisingly enough it didn't stop him from picking up painting as his second hobby. The worst part? He still constantly tries to talk about these "books" of his at any opportunity. It guess THAT is the whole point. As long as it is an idea, it is more enticing than doing the actual work. Or having to commit it to a particular shape or form.
That's nice. I've written a number of short stories already. I think my script is coming along nicely. I might not win nanowrimo anytime soon, but at least that's more than I started with.

As before - wouldn't really recommend it, but if you are dying for more vtm and played everything there is under the moon...
My advice, as usual, is to give up on that. This nostalgia is a toxic mindset and I speak from experience. I think it's most productive to make your own games with your own original IPs or else patronize those who do.
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,471
What's wrong with those faces? They all look dead. What engine is this?
 

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