1eyedking Vampire: The Masquerade - goth cringe or Christian apologetic?

[Roguey]

I believe that she is yonger than Lacroix, but the exactly date, IDK. Therese, the wiki put her in 6th generation(still prefer blood potency but that is another discussion : https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Therese_Voerman)

Jeanette says they've been vampires for two lifetimes so one can round up to two centuries.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I agree. I hate the christian stuff in WoD. The myth of a global flood and anti deluvians kinda breaks my suspension of disbelief.

I guess 90% of the cultures worldwide having the same global flood history is wrong too huh?

Almost all flood myths are localized flood myths. Sea levels raising a bit when most civilizations are close to rivers and seas is ok. Probably happened many times in many places of the world. The entire world, including the top of Mt Everest being flooded is nonsensical.

Incorrect, the stories recorded show it was a global event. That's a fact. You claim it's a myth yet you have provided no evidence to support your position.

https://www.icr.org/article/why-does-nearly-every-culture-have-tradition-globa

One of the strongest evidences for the global flood which annihilated all people on Earth except for Noah and his family, has been the ubiquitous presence of flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world. And the stories are all so similar. Local geography and cultural aspects may be present but they all seem to be telling the same story.

Over the years I have collected more than 200 of these stories, originally reported by various missionaries, anthropologists, and ethnologists.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/3255171a6e824687b473306e6dd63a61

This goes beyond Christianity and Judaism. By the way, it's hilarious that you reject Christianity's Bible, but accept the Torah and Tanakh. I hate to tell you this, but Christianity uses the Torah and Tanakh with the same books. So either you're ignorant on Judaism or you turn a blind eye to it.

If you can accept blood sucking vampires, but not a global flood then you really don't have a leg to stand on regarding suspension of disbelief.

Even Hinduism has a flood myth ffs.

 

[Pink Eye]

I think we even have mentions of it in the Quran as well. I'll have to ask my mother though. She's the only one in this family capable of reading it. I'm illiterate in arabic.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I din't said that VtM is trash. Only that I prefer VtR. Because I prefer if a creature of slavic folklore had myths more consistent with the slavic folklore. That is my opinion.

That's fair, if you'd prefer Slavic folklore. However, Christian imagery has become closely associated with the vampire in recent times (holy water, crucifixes, etc.) so it's expected that a Vampire RPG would play on that. And all this flood business has nothing to do with which portrayal of the vampire myth is preferable. I'm sure Slavic folklore has all sorts of things that are as "immersion breaking" as your view of the Biblical flood.

From what I've heard, most Biblical themes have been removed from recent editions of VtM, (although I've never played the PnP myself), to make way for trannies and fags and all the other garbage Bloodlines 2 would've had. With the way WoD and other PnP series have ended up, maybe the crazy right-wing SJW preachers Meredoth mentioned weren't far off the mark with the devil worship accusations.

 

[Wesp5]

Even Hinduism has a flood myth ffs.

Early human settlements were probably build along coasts or rivers to get access to water and fish. Regardless of area all of those would surely have suffered from a flood sooner or later...

 

[Cryomancer]

You claim it's a myth yet you have provided no evidence to support your position.

I could write a very long post showing that there are no way that the arc as describes in the bible could held so many animals, no way that a single family could create so many distinct ethnic groups, in fact, a single family trying to repopulate the world would create a lot of genetic defects but since it is too off topic, Here is a long video series showing how Noah's flood goes against geology, biology, zoology, paleontology, all say that the noah's flood could't happen.

Even Hinduism has a flood myth ffs.

Vastly different. Is like say that demons exists cuz they exists in other cultures, when they are vastly different in Ancient Greek for eg :

a video explaining the difference

to make way for trannies and fags and all the other garbage Bloodlines 2 would've had. With the way WoD and other PnP series have ended up, maybe the crazy right-wing SJW preachers Meredoth mentioned weren't far off the mark with the devil worship accusations.

TBH with the 80s/90s satanic panic preachers, D&D has a very pagan worldview. A polytheistic world, where each God has his domains, reincarnation in material world and other planes(...) But yes, I agree with you. A lot of Christianity stuff got removed from the game and now we have Rudi(I know that is old)

Even Hinduism has a flood myth ffs.

Early human settlements were probably build along coasts or rivers to get access to water and fish. Regardless of area all of those would surely have suffered from a flood sooner or later...

Gothic 2 has a flood myth too. But is a local one.

 

[JamesDixon]

You claim it's a myth yet you have provided no evidence to support your position.

I could write a very long post showing that there are no way that the arc as describes in the bible could held so many animals, no way that a single family could create so many distinct ethnic groups, in fact, a single family trying to repopulate the world would create a lot of genetic defects but since it is too off topic, Here is a long video series showing how Noah's flood goes against geology, biology, zoology, paleontology, all say that the noah's flood could't happen.

Except that they're all wrong. Genetics actually proves the Biblical account correct since we are all descended from one of three mothers. They are the wives of Ham, Shem, and Japeth which is in the mitochondrial DNA. Men also share the same basic Y chromosome.

At any rate, I reject your discount Youtuber as a source. He's an atheistard that has an axe to grind against Christians and Jews.

 

[Atlantico]

The pre-history part of the lore *is* still a mystery.

This is why I don't want to get into specifics. Too many autistic and stupid replies follow.

 

[Jason Liang]

Nothing "Christian" about oWOD lore is confirmed. It's the passed down beliefs of vampires that lived as mortals in Europe from the Dark Ages to the French Revolution. Of course they would hold beliefs that align with Christian beliefs.

The actual oWOD lore is stuff like the Kaymakli "Feast of Folly", the Convention of Thorns, the Demon Kupala, Baba Yaga and the Nictuku, the Ritual of Usurpation, The Week of Nightmares, etc... and has nothing to do with the Bible.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Here is a long video series showing how Noah's flood goes against geology, biology, zoology, paleontology, all say that the noah's flood could't happen.

And it's a fat gross looking ugly retard doing the presentation. What a shock. Maybe I'll listen to something this fag says once he loses some weight and gets a haircut.

 

[Cryomancer]

Except that they're all wrong. Genetics actually proves the Biblical account correct since we are all descended from one of three mothers. They are the wives of Ham, Shem, and Japeth which is in the mitochondrial DNA. Men also share the same basic Y chromosome.

Source? Because how the entire humanity could come from a tiny incestuous family kinda makes no sense. Inbreeding caused massive genetic defects in some families.

Eg https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/habsburg-jaw-inbreeding.html

And this is only one of a long list of problems with that story.

Nothing "Christian" about oWOD lore is confirmed. It's the passed down beliefs of vampires that lived as mortals in Europe from the Dark

source? I'm interested in reading more about it

 

[Storyfag]

the Ritual of Usurpation

And the resulting Omen War. Which is not over, oh no. Come to think of it, the whole V5 Vienna Chantry debacle would be made much more palatable as said war's most recent act. I'd completely buy the assorted alphabet agencies managing what they did had the thaumaturgical protections of Vienna been additionally weakened through koldunic means.

 

[JamesDixon]

Except that they're all wrong. Genetics actually proves the Biblical account correct since we are all descended from one of three mothers. They are the wives of Ham, Shem, and Japeth which is in the mitochondrial DNA. Men also share the same basic Y chromosome.

Source? Because how the entire humanity could come from a tiny incestuous family kinda makes no sense. Inbreeding caused massive genetic defects in some families.

Eg https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/habsburg-jaw-inbreeding.html

And this is only one of a long list of problems with that story.

Nothing "Christian" about oWOD lore is confirmed. It's the passed down beliefs of vampires that lived as mortals in Europe from the Dark

source? I'm interested in reading more about it

The mitochondrial haplogroups are divided into three main groups, which are designated by the sequential letters L, M, N. Humanity first split within the L group between L0 and L1-6. L1-6 gave rise to other L groups, one of which, L3, split into the M and N group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroups

You'd be surprised that is indeed what happened. Adam and Even had roughly 50 children and they intermarried just fine. Incest was fine until the law of Moses when it was outlawed to the Israelites. So from the time of Adam and Eve and until Moses which is 2,513 years that incest was legal for the world. It was banned in Israel in 1495 BC, but still legal under the Noachide covenant. It was outlawed to the world in the Messianic covenant in 33 AD.

You are forgetting that DNA that young didn't have the genetic defects it does now. The further we get from the original source the more copying errors there are in the bio-mechanical hard drive we call DNA. The Habsburgs are so far removed from 1495 BC when Moses lived, so your understanding is flawed.

If you actually did the math for the generations starting with today's numbers you will find that we have the close to the exact number of people based the upon descent from three women. We're talking 2352 BC till 2021. The math and science doesn't lie.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

It's not like inbreeding is completely haram for every species in every situation, anyway. Pretty much all dog breeds are inbred in some way, and not just the fucked up ones like pugs. So it's not implausible to think that inbreeding in humans was once viable a long time ago.

 

[theLorry]

Mercy. Are you actually arguing that there has been a global flood that almost wiped out the entirety of mankind? Prey, tell us where all that water came from. If all currently frozen water on the planet melted and ran out into the oceans, the sea level would rise some 70 meters (200 ft). That's it, there is no other water on Earth that could raise the oceans further. So a Biblical flood is utterly impossible. It doesn't matter how long or heavily it rains, all that water ultimately comes from the oceans.

Yes, a 70 meters' rise would devastate coastal regions, but it wouldn't kill anybody. When the oceans rose at the quickest rate at the end of the last Ice Age, they rose about 2.5 or 3.0 meters per century. Today the oceans are only 8 meters below the highest levels known for the last 200,000 years.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Mercy. Are you actually arguing that there has been a global flood that almost wiped out the entirety of mankind? Prey, tell us where all that water came from. If all currently frozen water on the planet melted and ran out into the oceans, the sea level would rise some 70 meters (200 ft). That's it, there is no other water on Earth that could raise the oceans further. So a Biblical flood is utterly impossible. It doesn't matter how long or heavily it rains, all that water ultimately comes from the oceans.

Yes, a 70 meters' rise would devastate coastal regions, but it wouldn't kill anybody. When the oceans rose at the quickest rate at the end of the last Ice Age, they rose about 2.5 or 3.0 meters per century. Today the oceans are only 8 meters below the highest levels known for the last 200,000 years.

Are you retarded? Anyone arguing the legitimacy of the Biblical flood is almost certainly a theist who believes it was a miracle. Miracles don't need to be physically possible. The water was created by God from nothing.

 

[Cryomancer]

t DNA that young didn't have the genetic defects it does now. The further we get from the original source the more copying errors there are in the bio-mechanical hard drive we call DNA.

Any source that many defects din't existed in the past? Or was rare?

Using your own wikipedia article

"As of 2013, estimates for the age Y-MRCA are subject to substantial uncertainty, with a wide range of times from 180,000 to 580,000 years ago[6][7][8] (with an estimated age of between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago, roughly consistent with the estimate for mt-MRCA.).[2][9]

The name "Mitochondrial Eve" alludes to the biblical Eve, which has led to repeated misrepresentations or misconceptions in journalistic accounts on the topic."

Note that most people nowadays has Neanderthal DNA https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/africa/africa-neanderthal-dna-scn/index.html

Anyone arguing the legitimacy of the Biblical flood is almost certainly a theist who believes it was a miracle. Miracles don't need to be physically possible. The water was created by God from nothing.

Yep... However :

• Salt water will be mixed with non salty water and it would kill the entire aquatic life
• A ship capable of housing thousands of different animal species, would be larger than cities, not smaller than Titanic.
• After the flood, all herbivorous animals would die due the lack of food and subsequently, all carnivorous animals too
• In the arc, almost all animals would die from cold due the high altitude
• And those who will not die from cold like a Polar Bear and a Penguin, would die from the oxygen deprivation due the high altitude.
• It will makes the planet more massive hence the gravity will chance and who knows the consequences of it.
• (...)
• Even if after miracle after miracle everything works, everyone would be christian and know that the bible is truth. Cuz everyone will know by his ancestor. Christianity would't be a religion relative recent in human history, who started as a Jew sect in ancient Rome and only become mainstream after Constantine imposed in everyone and spread mostly due forced conversion. Would be the unique and undeniable truth.

I'm a atheist? No. I believe that the supernatural exists, however, is far beyond human comprehension.

 

[JamesDixon]

t DNA that young didn't have the genetic defects it does now. The further we get from the original source the more copying errors there are in the bio-mechanical hard drive we call DNA.

Any source that many defects din't existed in the past? Or was rare?

Using your own wikipedia article

"As of 2013, estimates for the age Y-MRCA are subject to substantial uncertainty, with a wide range of times from 180,000 to 580,000 years ago[6][7][8] (with an estimated age of between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago, roughly consistent with the estimate for mt-MRCA.).[2][9]

The name "Mitochondrial Eve" alludes to the biblical Eve, which has led to repeated misrepresentations or misconceptions in journalistic accounts on the topic."

Note that most people nowadays has Neanderthal DNA https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/africa/africa-neanderthal-dna-scn/index.html

Anyone arguing the legitimacy of the Biblical flood is almost certainly a theist who believes it was a miracle. Miracles don't need to be physically possible. The water was created by God from nothing.

Yep... However :

• Salt water will be mixed with non salty water and it would kill the entire aquatic life
• A ship capable of housing thousands of different animal species, would be larger than cities, not smaller than Titanic.
• After the flood, all herbivorous animals would die due the lack of food and subsequently, all carnivorous animals too
• In the arc, almost all animals would die from cold due the high altitude
• And those who will not die from cold like a Polar Bear and a Penguin, would die from the oxygen deprivation due the high altitude.
• It will makes the planet more massive hence the gravity will chance and who knows the consequences of it.
• (...)
• Even if after miracle after miracle everything works, everyone would be christian and know that the bible is truth. Cuz everyone will know by his ancestor. Christianity would't be a religion relative recent in human history, who started as a Jew sect in ancient Rome and only become mainstream after Constantine imposed in everyone and spread mostly due forced conversion. Would be the unique and undeniable truth.

I'm a atheist? No. I believe that the supernatural exists, however, is far beyond human comprehension.

Scripture makes it clear.

I cited the Wikipedia article only for the fact that there are 3 haplogroups of female ancestors for everyone. I reject the old earth bullshit because that's exactly what it is when you know the history of it. The entire concept gained ground and supplanted the multi-millennia old young earth teaching in the late 19th century. Old Earth didn't supplant Young Earth until 1945-47 when carbon dating was invented. However, the problem with carbon dating is that it's based upon the assumption that the earth is billions of years old and all figures derived bake in the billions and millions of years ago. Once you remove it you find that the information is consistent with written records. As such, old earth is still a relatively new hypothesis that has no scientific backing whatsoever.

1. You assume that there was salt and fresh water back then. Do you happen to have samples to back up your claim? However, you discount the fact that when salt water evaporates that it turns into fresh water. So you can mix the two during a flood and you still have both fresh and salt water. We see it all the time on the coasts with fresh water lakes and rivers. Marine life functions just fine when the two meet.
2. Incorrect, they've already built an ark that is functional and does support the amount of animals needed when you use "kinds" as described in Genesis 1 and 2. A kind is the parent of many subspecies. Subspecies adapt and change due to their environment.
3. Herbivores can survive just fine on water plants and is a part of their diet in many parts of the world. Carnivores are also scavengers that eat dead things without reservation.
4. The sea level would be raised and function identically to what it does now for sea level. Water is an excellent conductor of heat that is reflected from the sun.
5. You discount the fact that the pressure from the water that raised the sea level would also compensate the air. It would make it denser so deprivation is not a concern.
6. It wouldn't change the weight of the earth as the water is already here. The earth is a closed system that is self regulating.
7. I still see you are discounting all the other religions including Judaism which Christianity is a branch of. This makes you dishonest as well as your arguments. You also forget that God gave man free will to choose how to live and what to believe. You assume that we would not have either. Yet, here you are.

 

[Cryomancer]

man free will to choose how to live and what to believe. You assume that we would not have either. Yet, here you are.

This I strongly disagree. NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY can chose his believes. I can't chose to believe that socialism doesn't exist despite hating it and wanting to erase it. Same with supernatural believes. In world of darkness, if you get sired, you can't just chose to believe that vampires doesn't exist. What humans believe is determined by a lot of factors, choice is not one of then.

 

[JamesDixon]

man free will to choose how to live and what to believe. You assume that we would not have either. Yet, here you are.

This I strongly disagree. NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY can chose his believes. I can't chose to believe that socialism doesn't exist despite hating it and wanting to erase it. Same with supernatural believes. In world of darkness, if you get sired, you can't just chose to believe that vampires doesn't exist. What humans believe is determined by a lot of factors, choice is not one of then.

You just proven me to be correct in that you choose to believe what you want. You believe differently then I do. You believe certain games are crap and others are great which would be different in what I believe. You have the free will to choose how to live and what to believe.

 

[J1M]

Given that Therese is 6th generation, it can be that her Dementation power of Deny is so powerful that, for all intents and purposes, to the entire world Jeanette exists. Deny is the power that, as an example, lets Malkavians walk through walls as long as they believe the wall doesn't exist.

In LA by Night for example, everyone acts as if Jeanette is real, even the Society of Leopold.

Spoiler

In season 5, there is a blood hunt on Therese called by Vannevar Thomas, and Jeanette is openly the "acting Baron of Santa Monica" without anyone in the Camarilla thinking to go after Jeanette.

Sounds like pretty bad fan fiction.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

afaik as of vtmb the only person aware of Jeanette/Therese being the same person is the fledgling

 

[Atlantico]

Sounds like pretty bad fan fiction.

Precisely. Pretty damn bad fan fiction.

 

[Storyfag]

Given that Therese is 6th generation, it can be that her Dementation power of Deny is so powerful that, for all intents and purposes, to the entire world Jeanette exists. Deny is the power that, as an example, lets Malkavians walk through walls as long as they believe the wall doesn't exist.

In LA by Night for example, everyone acts as if Jeanette is real, even the Society of Leopold.

Spoiler

In season 5, there is a blood hunt on Therese called by Vannevar Thomas, and Jeanette is openly the "acting Baron of Santa Monica" without anyone in the Camarilla thinking to go after Jeanette.

Sounds like pretty bad fan fiction.

I've watched it. It's not that bad, to tell the truth.

 

[Cryomancer]

man free will to choose how to live and what to believe. You assume that we would not have either. Yet, here you are.

This I strongly disagree. NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY can chose his believes. I can't chose to believe that socialism doesn't exist despite hating it and wanting to erase it. Same with supernatural believes. In world of darkness, if you get sired, you can't just chose to believe that vampires doesn't exist. What humans believe is determined by a lot of factors, choice is not one of then.

You just proven me to be correct in that you choose to believe what you want. You believe differently then I do. You believe certain games are crap and others are great which would be different in what I believe. You have the free will to choose how to live and what to believe.

No, can you chose to just believe that 2+2 is 5?