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1eyedking Vampire: The Masquerade - goth cringe or Christian apologetic?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by J1M, Oct 17, 2021.

  1. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    Jeanette says they've been vampires for two lifetimes so one can round up to two centuries.
     
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  2. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Even Hinduism has a flood myth ffs.
     
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  3. Pink Eye Monk Patron

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    I think we even have mentions of it in the Quran as well. I'll have to ask my mother though. She's the only one in this family capable of reading it. I'm illiterate in arabic.
     
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  4. LarryTyphoid Learned

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    That's fair, if you'd prefer Slavic folklore. However, Christian imagery has become closely associated with the vampire in recent times (holy water, crucifixes, etc.) so it's expected that a Vampire RPG would play on that. And all this flood business has nothing to do with which portrayal of the vampire myth is preferable. I'm sure Slavic folklore has all sorts of things that are as "immersion breaking" as your view of the Biblical flood.

    From what I've heard, most Biblical themes have been removed from recent editions of VtM, (although I've never played the PnP myself), to make way for trannies and fags and all the other garbage Bloodlines 2 would've had. With the way WoD and other PnP series have ended up, maybe the crazy right-wing SJW preachers Meredoth mentioned weren't far off the mark with the devil worship accusations.
     
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  5. Wesp5 Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Early human settlements were probably build along coasts or rivers to get access to water and fish. Regardless of area all of those would surely have suffered from a flood sooner or later...
     
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  6. Meredoth Arcane

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    I could write a very long post showing that there are no way that the arc as describes in the bible could held so many animals, no way that a single family could create so many distinct ethnic groups, in fact, a single family trying to repopulate the world would create a lot of genetic defects but since it is too off topic, Here is a long video series showing how Noah's flood goes against geology, biology, zoology, paleontology, all say that the noah's flood could't happen.

    Vastly different. Is like say that demons exists cuz they exists in other cultures, when they are vastly different in Ancient Greek for eg :
    a video explaining the difference (open)




    TBH with the 80s/90s satanic panic preachers, D&D has a very pagan worldview. A polytheistic world, where each God has his domains, reincarnation in material world and other planes(...) But yes, I agree with you. A lot of Christianity stuff got removed from the game and now we have Rudi(I know that is old)

    [​IMG]

    Gothic 2 has a flood myth too. But is a local one.
     
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  7. JamesDixon Arcane Patron

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    Except that they're all wrong. Genetics actually proves the Biblical account correct since we are all descended from one of three mothers. They are the wives of Ham, Shem, and Japeth which is in the mitochondrial DNA. Men also share the same basic Y chromosome.

    At any rate, I reject your discount Youtuber as a source. He's an atheistard that has an axe to grind against Christians and Jews.
     
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  8. Atlantico unida e indivisible Patron

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    This is why I don't want to get into specifics. Too many autistic and stupid replies follow.
     
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  9. Jason Liang Arcane

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    Nothing "Christian" about oWOD lore is confirmed. It's the passed down beliefs of vampires that lived as mortals in Europe from the Dark Ages to the French Revolution. Of course they would hold beliefs that align with Christian beliefs.

    The actual oWOD lore is stuff like the Kaymakli "Feast of Folly", the Convention of Thorns, the Demon Kupala, Baba Yaga and the Nictuku, the Ritual of Usurpation, The Week of Nightmares, etc... and has nothing to do with the Bible.
     
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  10. LarryTyphoid Learned

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  11. Meredoth Arcane

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    Source? Because how the entire humanity could come from a tiny incestuous family kinda makes no sense. Inbreeding caused massive genetic defects in some families.

    Eg https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/habsburg-jaw-inbreeding.html

    And this is only one of a long list of problems with that story.
    source? I'm interested in reading more about it
     
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  12. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

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    And the resulting Omen War. Which is not over, oh no. Come to think of it, the whole V5 Vienna Chantry debacle would be made much more palatable as said war's most recent act. I'd completely buy the assorted alphabet agencies managing what they did had the thaumaturgical protections of Vienna been additionally weakened through koldunic means.
     
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  13. JamesDixon Arcane Patron

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#Human_mitochondrial_DNA_haplogroups

    You'd be surprised that is indeed what happened. Adam and Even had roughly 50 children and they intermarried just fine. Incest was fine until the law of Moses when it was outlawed to the Israelites. So from the time of Adam and Eve and until Moses which is 2,513 years that incest was legal for the world. It was banned in Israel in 1495 BC, but still legal under the Noachide covenant. It was outlawed to the world in the Messianic covenant in 33 AD.

    You are forgetting that DNA that young didn't have the genetic defects it does now. The further we get from the original source the more copying errors there are in the bio-mechanical hard drive we call DNA. The Habsburgs are so far removed from 1495 BC when Moses lived, so your understanding is flawed.

    If you actually did the math for the generations starting with today's numbers you will find that we have the close to the exact number of people based the upon descent from three women. We're talking 2352 BC till 2021. The math and science doesn't lie.
     
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  14. LarryTyphoid Learned

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    It's not like inbreeding is completely haram for every species in every situation, anyway. Pretty much all dog breeds are inbred in some way, and not just the fucked up ones like pugs. So it's not implausible to think that inbreeding in humans was once viable a long time ago.
     
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  15. theLorry Novice

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    Mercy. Are you actually arguing that there has been a global flood that almost wiped out the entirety of mankind? Prey, tell us where all that water came from. If all currently frozen water on the planet melted and ran out into the oceans, the sea level would rise some 70 meters (200 ft). That's it, there is no other water on Earth that could raise the oceans further. So a Biblical flood is utterly impossible. It doesn't matter how long or heavily it rains, all that water ultimately comes from the oceans.

    Yes, a 70 meters' rise would devastate coastal regions, but it wouldn't kill anybody. When the oceans rose at the quickest rate at the end of the last Ice Age, they rose about 2.5 or 3.0 meters per century. Today the oceans are only 8 meters below the highest levels known for the last 200,000 years.
     
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  16. LarryTyphoid Learned

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    Are you retarded? Anyone arguing the legitimacy of the Biblical flood is almost certainly a theist who believes it was a miracle. Miracles don't need to be physically possible. The water was created by God from nothing.
     
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  17. Meredoth Arcane

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    Any source that many defects din't existed in the past? Or was rare?

    Using your own wikipedia article

    "As of 2013, estimates for the age Y-MRCA are subject to substantial uncertainty, with a wide range of times from 180,000 to 580,000 years ago[6][7][8] (with an estimated age of between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago, roughly consistent with the estimate for mt-MRCA.).[2][9]

    The name "Mitochondrial Eve" alludes to the biblical Eve, which has led to repeated misrepresentations or misconceptions in journalistic accounts on the topic."

    Note that most people nowadays has Neanderthal DNA https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/africa/africa-neanderthal-dna-scn/index.html

    Yep... However :
    • Salt water will be mixed with non salty water and it would kill the entire aquatic life
    • A ship capable of housing thousands of different animal species, would be larger than cities, not smaller than Titanic.
    • After the flood, all herbivorous animals would die due the lack of food and subsequently, all carnivorous animals too
    • In the arc, almost all animals would die from cold due the high altitude
    • And those who will not die from cold like a Polar Bear and a Penguin, would die from the oxygen deprivation due the high altitude.
    • It will makes the planet more massive hence the gravity will chance and who knows the consequences of it.
    • (...)
    • Even if after miracle after miracle everything works, everyone would be christian and know that the bible is truth. Cuz everyone will know by his ancestor. Christianity would't be a religion relative recent in human history, who started as a Jew sect in ancient Rome and only become mainstream after Constantine imposed in everyone and spread mostly due forced conversion. Would be the unique and undeniable truth.
    I'm a atheist? No. I believe that the supernatural exists, however, is far beyond human comprehension.
     
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  18. JamesDixon Arcane Patron

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    Scripture makes it clear.

    I cited the Wikipedia article only for the fact that there are 3 haplogroups of female ancestors for everyone. I reject the old earth bullshit because that's exactly what it is when you know the history of it. The entire concept gained ground and supplanted the multi-millennia old young earth teaching in the late 19th century. Old Earth didn't supplant Young Earth until 1945-47 when carbon dating was invented. However, the problem with carbon dating is that it's based upon the assumption that the earth is billions of years old and all figures derived bake in the billions and millions of years ago. Once you remove it you find that the information is consistent with written records. As such, old earth is still a relatively new hypothesis that has no scientific backing whatsoever.

    1. You assume that there was salt and fresh water back then. Do you happen to have samples to back up your claim? However, you discount the fact that when salt water evaporates that it turns into fresh water. So you can mix the two during a flood and you still have both fresh and salt water. We see it all the time on the coasts with fresh water lakes and rivers. Marine life functions just fine when the two meet.
    2. Incorrect, they've already built an ark that is functional and does support the amount of animals needed when you use "kinds" as described in Genesis 1 and 2. A kind is the parent of many subspecies. Subspecies adapt and change due to their environment.
    3. Herbivores can survive just fine on water plants and is a part of their diet in many parts of the world. Carnivores are also scavengers that eat dead things without reservation.
    4. The sea level would be raised and function identically to what it does now for sea level. Water is an excellent conductor of heat that is reflected from the sun.
    5. You discount the fact that the pressure from the water that raised the sea level would also compensate the air. It would make it denser so deprivation is not a concern.
    6. It wouldn't change the weight of the earth as the water is already here. The earth is a closed system that is self regulating.
    7. I still see you are discounting all the other religions including Judaism which Christianity is a branch of. This makes you dishonest as well as your arguments. You also forget that God gave man free will to choose how to live and what to believe. You assume that we would not have either. Yet, here you are.
     
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  19. Meredoth Arcane

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    This I strongly disagree. NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY can chose his believes. I can't chose to believe that socialism doesn't exist despite hating it and wanting to erase it. Same with supernatural believes. In world of darkness, if you get sired, you can't just chose to believe that vampires doesn't exist. What humans believe is determined by a lot of factors, choice is not one of then.
     
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  20. JamesDixon Arcane Patron

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    You just proven me to be correct in that you choose to believe what you want. You believe differently then I do. You believe certain games are crap and others are great which would be different in what I believe. You have the free will to choose how to live and what to believe.
     
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  21. J1M Arcane

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    Sounds like pretty bad fan fiction.
     
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  22. rusty_shackleford Arcane

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    afaik as of vtmb the only person aware of Jeanette/Therese being the same person is the fledgling
     
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  23. Atlantico unida e indivisible Patron

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    Precisely. Pretty damn bad fan fiction.
     
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  24. Storyfag Perfidious Pole Patron

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    I've watched it. It's not that bad, to tell the truth.
     
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  25. Meredoth Arcane

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    No, can you chose to just believe that 2+2 is 5?
     
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