Information Vote on how Chris Avellone will LP Arcanum!

[Moribund]

So a character strong enough to bludgeon a storm giant to death with his bare hands can't wrench a dragon's finger back? Dragons aren't demigods ffs. It's just a fucking lizard.

Maybe take this back to the context of the game.

1. it's 2d. So it won't have grappling, end of the story.

2. THERE'S ONLY 5% CHANCE TO MISS. Yes, it's more simplistist than wow. There's not much "chance of" ANYTHING happening in this game system, and that kills many possibilities, including grappling. You can't have a system where you KNOW the dragon will just grab the halfling and crush the little twerp, and sawyer seems to think for "balance" nothing can be left to chance.

3. It's rtwp. Again, when they made that choice it made a whole bunch of choices for them. There won't be grappling. It's pointless in such a system. You need to have immediate response and counter to have grappling like in DnD, or any kind of meaningful grappling. However in rtwp you can't concentrate 100% on one character and even trying is very annoying.

So add it all together and it's like demanding a sniper scope on a slingshot. It's kind of ludicrous you'd even ask for it, if you really think the game's gonna be even as tactical as wow you have made about 400 critical reading failures in a row. At least in wow you have to sync up your cooldowns and make sure everyone does stuff that works together and buffs the right guy.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I always loved the difference between a miss and doing 0 damage. Oh wrong thread.

 

[Moribund]

It's obvious to me it will seem too gamey.

A dragon should be able to rip off the strongest fighter's head and devour him...sometimes. If you know how many chomps it takes to whack down a troll it just becomes a tedious meaningless chore. This alone is pretty well game ruining.

And it's all for silly reasons, too. Worrying about things like damage per second comparisons in a single player game is just...I don't even know, man.

I never believed we'd get to these depths of retardo, it's just pathetic.

 

[St. Toxic]

If you think two characters grabbing each other by the shoulders and shaking each other is adequate animation for grappling we are in disagreement over this issue. I think that is adequate animation for grabbing someone by the shoulders and shaking them though. I suspect that professional game developers are also largely in disagreement with you over this issue. Probably because they have made statements saying that grappling requires to much unique animation and the fact that it is rarely implemented in CRPGs.

What's missing?

Reasons aren't excuses. It's important to know the distinction.

You're telling me.

No. If a character were just grappling with one arm they would be at a large penalty. And the difficulty for breaking a grapple, aka wriggling free, is much lower than for immobilizing the opponent. So the grappling mechanics are able to provide for one situation being possible(Wriggling out of a dragon's grasp) while another situation is impossible(Putting a dragon in a choke hold). Well done grappling mechanics cover the entire range of things a person might want to do in a grappling situation. Including breaking free or attempting to restrain someone when you are limiting yourself to just one arm/limb being used. The reason almost all Pen and Paper RPG systems have grappling isn't because grappling is so important tactically(although you can design your combat system so grappling provides significant tactical options) it is because at some point in the game a player character or an NPC is going to want to subdue or capture something else without hurting that thing, so they are going to say "well I grab him/her/it/them." So a PnP system is going to want to have some kind of mechanic for determining how this scenario goes down.

Right, but I still say breaking free in itself isn't grappling. What the dragon is doing isn't grappling, it's grabbing. It's not a question of mano-y-mano mele close combat tactics, where two combatants exchange strikes and holds and try to get a dominant position over one-another. It's a question of a huge fucking lizard grabbing a tiny man, and the tiny man squirming to get free. A move that trips or pushes the opponent aside despite, say, him having a choke-hold on your character, might be considered in-system, but simply worming your way out of a grab isn't part of it. It should be in the same category as dodge and other damage/trap avoidance mechanics. Would you say breaking free of a net or saving against a spider's web is grappling?

So a character strong enough to bludgeon a storm giant to death with his bare hands can't wrench a dragon's finger back? Dragons aren't demigods ffs. It's just a fucking lizard.

I'm sure he could, but it wouldn't exactly put him in a dominant position in terms of close quarters combat. "Hey dragon, I pushed your finger back. What are you gonna do now, how? Cry fire-tears? Oh shi"

 

[Jick Magger]

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

 

[Hormalakh]

It's not about MCA playing Arcanum I can tell you that.

 

[ManjuShri]

This is as strong as a grappler can physically be. Turn down volume for the first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Karelin



In a less controlled match.

 

[RK47]

 

[FeelTheRads]

one of their design goals is trying to make a good looking game.

Yes, well, if you're trying to make a good looking game but you have to cut corners (which is one of the reasons of the decline in the first place: expensive graphics means less options) to be able to do it then maybe you suck and you shouldn't. I really don't care about their reasons if you want to pull that out. I'm sure they want to make a good looking game so next-gen kids don't go "LOL WUTS THIS SHIT???" when they see it (not that they won't anyway when they see it's 2D) but why the fuck should I care about that, really?

 

[Infinitron]

I'm sure they want to make a good looking game so Codex graphics whores don't go "LOL WUTS THIS SHIT???" when they see it

Fixed

 

[St. Toxic]

You know what, you are absolutely right. I've just realized it. Obsidian entertainment should add poorly animated, half-assed grappling to PE. But only for humanoid opponents. It is entirely ridiculous to ever come into physical contact with something that isn't a humanoid of roughly the same size anyway. Who cares about the other combat abilities and mechanics they are going to have to cut to implement that poorly animated, half-assed grappling. Who cares that those other abilities and mechanics are able to be well animated and implemented in a way that fits with and achieves their design goals. There is no way a combat system can have any level of depth to it without grappling. I mean the entire tactical decision making process hinges on if you are able to grapple the opponent or not.

We are tired of Obsidian excuses. Trying to make claims that they have to take into consideration the resources available and how best to use them to achieve their design goals. Do they think we are born yesterday to fall for such obvious BS. Why would anyone ever weigh various options and consider their costs and benefits. That sounds like the decision making process of a person who is clearly retarded. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of it. I mean for crying out loud one of their design goals is trying to make a good looking game. What kind of game developer tries to make their game look good anyway? Declinists of the highest order, that's who.

It's good to see you've finally come to your senses.