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Wizardry W8GO - Wizardry 8 Gameplay Overhaul

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by IxionXVII, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    Hey I'm the creator of W8GO and I wanted to share my Overhaul for Wizardry 8. I've been working at it on and off for about 2 years and feel like it's in a finished state.

    W8GO attempts to make the game faster, less tedious and more balanced.
    Unlike other Wizardry 8 overhauls this one only aims to improve the base game. No new enemies or locations. Everything is carefully added into the game and written down in the changelog.

    This overhaul is not only aimed at veterans of the game but also new people that never played the game. I've made many changes to the game to make it a little bit more modern: (while still feeling old school at the core)
    - Enemies respawn time increased by a lot, Removed some spawn points of enemies
    - Arnika is mostly free of enemies once you've cleared it
    - Increased the speed of many projectiles (this increases the overall speed of combat slightly)
    - Fixed many problems with weird naming of items
    - Increased stack sizes of many items
    - Increased the view distance of some areas
    - All options are configured already, new keybinds are set up (e.g. WASD movement)

    - Includes install instructions for modern machines
    - A complete rebalance of most things (classes/races/weapons/armor/spells/enemies etc.)


    For more Information check out the nexusmods page here.
    If you need any more info or have feedback about the mod feel free to join my discord.
     
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  2. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    I haven't played W8, but this is a huge red flag. Literally no modders get this right, yet they always try it and end up with prosperous results.
     
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  3. MotherMachinae Arcane

    MotherMachinae
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    Which one added new locations?
     
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  4. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    Balance is always subjective but in my opinion there are a lot of big problems with vanilla balance such as:
    - Spell balance late game/Enemy spell resistances
    - Some Races/Classes are just straight up superior to others
    - Alchemy kinda breaks the economy/Economy is pretty bad in general
    - Group buff spells were too good
    - A huge player power spike in Arnika because of a ton of good items that the player gets
    - Some weapons were completely useless when they were found, some weapons were completely overpowered
    - Some bosses were no challenge at all (compared to others)
    - A lot more that in my opinion just isn't balanced too good

    Again all this is highly subjective but I like to think that I have an eye for these things. (I also made complete gameplay overhauls for other games)
    I tend to like my games more on the "hardcore" side of things and therefore I see many things in game design decisions I just strongly disagree with.
    I would also strongly disagree with the phrase "Literally no modders get this right" there are several mods that come to my mind that balance the game way better than the original game. (Requiem for Skyrim, W3EE for Witcher 3 to name some)


    I can't name them on the top of my head but there were some. There are certainly overhauls of Wizardry 8 that don't add new locations but I just wanted to point out that W8GO still feels like vanilla Wizardry 8 unlike most of the other overhauls.
     
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  5. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    IxionXVII can you link your "complete gameplay overhauls" for other games?
     
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  6. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  7. Strange Fellow Peculiar Patron Sad Loser

    Strange Fellow
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    Sort of looks like you've nerfed stuff across the board. That's not fun. Wiz 8 owes a lot of its appeal to the smorgasbord of powerful items and abilities that you get to play around with, and I don't see how nerfing stuff will do any good. Did you consider that there's a point to certain weapons being overpowered? Like the *Light Sword* or the Cane of Corpus. These SHOULD be overpowered, because of how hard they are to acquire/use. The power spike in Arnika is much smaller than you give it credit for, but to the extent that it exists, again it SHOULD be that way, because you've made it to an important milestone in the game.

    I also personally never got the economy complaint. Alchemy, sure, but the economy in general? The guy in Rapax Castle sells all kinds of unbelievably expensive items, and I've never had enough money to buy everything I wanted throughout the course of a normal playthrough (meaning no grinding). As for the boss balance, which ones in particular are weak in your opinion? I can't think of any, except arguably the very last boss of the game.

    Looking at the specific changes, the class changes seem more or less nonsensical. Take this, for example:
    What exactly does this add to the game? It's an incredibly minor and unnecessary change. I also find it funny that you complain about some classes being overpowered, yet you buffed the Valkyrie. :lol:

    The only complaint of yours I agree with 100% is the poor balance between different weapon types. Axes suck, everyone agrees on that. That's why the only thing in the changelog that gets me excited is the axe changes, like the addition of an off-hand axe comparable to Diamond Eyes.
     
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  8. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    Sure I agree that some things are rightfully overpowered. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be touched at all in my opinion. Light Sword for example is still insanely strong in W8GO.
    I also agree that you should gain a power spike in Arnika but in my opinion it was too much.

    Some bosses that felt too weak for me:
    Keeper of the Crypt health from 310-800 to 700-850 (it's just random how hard he is)
    Lava Lord
    El Dorado
    King Crab

    The race changes you mentioned are mostly flavor while keeping it balanced. It's also a slight buff to the Hobbit in most scenarios.

    I'm always open to feedback. Valkyrie is certainly strong. Would appreciate more detailed feedback about that.
     
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  9. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
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    Oh, you're a bethesda modder.

    this will be fun.
     
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  10. coldcrow Prophet Patron

    coldcrow
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    Changes look p. sensible, if not minor in several cases, to me. Going to give this a whirl.
     
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  11. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    Glad to hear that :)
    Have fun playing!
     
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  12. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    NOOO. Arnika is great xp farm and just all around area to mince around. Without the bot patrols it would just become a boring merchant spot that you would never want to return, when you have bought all the exclusive items from there. The mass battles among Savant servants and local monks and guards and you being among that chaos was always one of the fun parts for me. You can ignore xp farming of course, but i always like that i have options in the game. It's especially useful, when you want to go solo or with suboptimal parties. It allows for experimenting.

    Reading what you say later this is just another nerfing mod. I think Wiz8 is one of the rare games that is almost perfectly balanced. The fact that with certain builds, parties and meta knowledge you get very powerful at the end isn't a flaw. It's how good rpgees should work. You can easily nerf yourself by simply choosing sub optimal/weird theme parties and go along with it. And even with optimized parties some battles can still be quite an adventure. I still need to reload time from time in my plays even though i know the game in and out. Like going to Southern Wilderness and meeting bunch of high level mages and their elementals. It's usually very hard, if you haven't grinded yourself to god status in low level areas and takes some part of strategic/tactical thinking to get through. Sometimes cheesing, of course, but that's part of the fun of overcoming overwhelming odds.

    Anyhow, i'm interested in your project. Some of the changes might be actually good, like the change in magic resistance from everyone, both party and enemies, which makes a lot of spells obsolete in late game and melee being completely devastating. Godspeed.
     
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  13. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    :stabbedintheback:
     
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  14. Grampy_Bone Arcane

    Grampy_Bone
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    Was going to say exactly this. Dem robots are EZ XP.

    IxionXVII

    Does this mod mess with chest RNG at all? Do I have to scum Nessie to get an excalibur still? What about the click-grind of leveling lockpicks? Is stealth/reflexion still OP? The str/dex/spd build still p much mandatory?

    Edit: Okay wut

    dafuq is this? what could possibly be the justification of this? "uncursing was too op, breaks the game, nerf plz" jesus christ. go fuck yourself.
     
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  15. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Meh. Make multiclassing great again!
     
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  16. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    You can use the cosmic forge to set the chance to 100%, less time wasted compared to save scumming.
     
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  17. Grampy_Bone Arcane

    Grampy_Bone
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    I don't think I've ever actually scummed to get that specific sword, I but I have reloaded a few times if I didn't get something decent from that specific chest.

    This is plenty of potent guaranteed gear that scumming is never necessary, I just lament not seeing some of the rarest items even after half a dozen playthroughs.
     
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  18. Grampy_Bone Arcane

    Grampy_Bone
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    This is exactly what he did.

    For example, this mod moves some of the highly-useful buff spells in the game to the lesser used spellcasting classes Psionic and Alchemist, which seems like a good idea. But since Bishops still get access to all four spellcasting schools this change only makes Bishops even more powerful, in fact with this mod I would never use anything other than 2 bishops.

    He also nerfed the Cane of Corpus in half. The cane is the strongest weapon in the game but can only be used by a Fairy ninja. Normally that is an absurd combination because your stats are junk and you can't use almost any gear, but your reward is the awesome cane of corpus and your little fairy becomes a death machine. You also have to kill a superhard optional boss that is easy to miss since he isn't even hostile by default.

    By nerfing the cane this meme class combo is fully worthless, so forget it. I only ever used a fairy ninja once in all my playthroughs because why not? Add some variety. But now there's no point to it at all. I'm sure the modder felt people enjoying the 'zany' fairy ninja combo were having fun wrong or something.
     
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  19. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    I'm kinda ocd about always making my chars specialized in one area and becoming uber at it. I don't like jack-of-all-trades chars, even in single player rpgs, but in party based ones it seems absolutely boring.
     
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  20. Gnidrologist CONDUCTOR

    Gnidrologist
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    Yeah
    :whatisfun:
    "You shall not use the fairy ninja as developers intended, because it is an abomination unto God!"

    Anyone, who loves W8 should play fairy ninja solo at least once. It's such a great power trip from zero to hero even if it gets stale in the late game (most builds/parties get that anyway).
    The greatness of W8 is not the beating the game, but process of how you do it. When everything is
    :littlemissfun:
    it gets boring.

    It's like removing all the funny exploitable things in Gothic1/2 and building invisible wall so you couldn't climb mountains and kite orks with your puny 5 level character. Or removing the dragon snapper tranformation spell, which is very powerful, but also risky, when you go all the way in forgetting the optics.
     
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  21. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    If you do try it I'd love to hear some feedback on the nexusmods page or the discord.

    Also I was not intending to nerf things just for the sake of nerfing things. I nerfed things because some items just felt out of line.
    I do agree that you should feel powerful at some point. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some changes to items that feel overtuned. Even if some of the "iconic" items were nerfed they're still very powerful and useful.
     
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  22. IxionXVII Literate

    IxionXVII
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    I'll think about buffing Cane of Corpus because I do agree to some extent. Still think it's too powerful in vanilla though.
     
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  23. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    And then in another, and another still, until everything scatters in terror upon hearing the thunderous steps of the ultimate gods of murderhoboing :obviously:

    Alas, absolute power is not for you, child.
     
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  24. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
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    Have you even played Wizardry 7?
     
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  25. grimer Novice

    grimer
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    main issue with wizardry 8 were those rapax enemies who had such bloated hp yet deal pitiful damage with weapons or spells which compounded with the slow combat animations (even with wizfast which only speeds up movement animations) turn the late game areas into a slog and ive never finished the game because of that. aside from those flaws the game is a masterpiece dare i say brenda brathwaite's magnum opus
     
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