Sranchammer
Arcane
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).
Alfred Loskow agrees.
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).
Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.
But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.
IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).
Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.
But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.
That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It's actually not that uncommon stance and you can encounter it in on the web, that Wehrmacht was clear as a whistle, and only those fanatical SS troops, especially Waffen SS committed some atrocities. And if they did anything bad, it was because they were forced to.
Panzer General 2 is a peak wehraboo game (intermission FMVs in German campaign alone make me rejoice) and it didn't hurt its popularity at all, quite the contraryOf course, I guess that we can all imagine why Pyro didn’t want to touch this back in the day (in much less crazy times)
If you want a guerilla campaign against Germans, Yugoslavia, Poland or Western USSR with their partisans are the best choice. If you want a campaign against Red Army, Forest Brothers, Ukrainian chaps or Belorussian ones (Germans planned to leave a full-scaled partisan war in Soviet rear, didn't play out too well but resistance continued until mid-fifties) are the best shots. Speaking of latter, no one in the West has ever considered Russia as a feasible market, so it doesn't matter.I think that a pretty cool setting would be the “partisan war” in formerly Polish territories in Ukraine, since for a time there was the Polish AK fighting against pro-Soviet partisans and both sides were also fighting against the Germans. Polish AK and the Baltic Forest Brothers were fighting a guerrilla war against the Soviets well into the 50s, so that could also work as a setting (though Russians seem to get very butthurt about the topic of anti-Soviet resistance during and shortly after WWII, so this might be bad for sales too).
No widespread atrocities were actually committed. That's just a lie the Bolsheviks told to cover up all the widespread and deliberate genocide campaigns they had committed behind the Iron Curtain once they had come to power.IMO the “German deserter” setting is as edgy as anyone will get (this being from the authors of Hatred).
Yes, and thats a shame, form the trailer you can see, the game will probably again only focus on german atrocities, without bringing them into context, why they actually happened during the cause of the war.
I doubt it will be showing the horrors of bolshevism, which was the main reason for the radicalization and violence of both sides. Sovjet Russia did not adhere to the Haager Landkriegsordnung (hague land warfare rules), which the Wehrmacht did in the beginning of the war. They had the so called Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle (something like Wehrmacht investigation unit), which did record war crimes on both sides of the war, especially in the early years, the polish campaign and the western front. Things got really bad during Operation Barbarossa, as the Wehrmacht was more and more drawn into the Partisan war, where sovjets often would instigate the locals against the Wehrmacht, by executing civilians with captured german uniforms, thus a vicious cycle of terror and counter terror evolved, much like in the years of the Weimarer Republic.
But instead of an historically accurate story we will most likely get another bland "germans bad" narrative for the 1.000000th time.
That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It's actually not that uncommon stance and you can encounter it in on the web, that Wehrmacht was clear as a whistle, and only those fanatical SS troops, especially Waffen SS committed some atrocities. And if they did anything bad, it was because they were forced to.
Panzer Crops' intro is also pretty good. The game lacks a lot of flavor for the unfolding events, but I really love the intro.Panzer General 2 is a peak wehraboo game (intermission FMVs in German campaign alone make me rejoice) and it didn't hurt its popularity at all, quite the contrary
Since being a kid a saw a lot of Soviet movies, often including scenes of how perfectly front-ready German soldiers are burning villages and massacring local population, and this is a common staple of Soviet cinematography. But once you start looking forward individual cases you start seeing more about the real perpetrators. Khatyn, one of the most well-known massacres, was perpetuated by 118th Schutzmannschaft Battalion (comprised of guess whom? Mostly Ukrainians) and Dirlewanger brigade (2/3 German criminals and 1/3 local collaborators). Operation Winterzauber, during which more than 100 villages were completely destroyed, was perpetuated mostly by Latvian and Ukrainian collaborators, and so on; collaborators were involved in majority of such massacres. Even in Warsaw Uprising, the most "active" units in that regard were Dirlewanger brigade and mostly Russian RONA. While I criticize German policies in the East, arming and letting loose these bands of scum to deal with the partisan problem is one of the most deplorable decisions and couldn't be whitewashed from Germans, but a lot of such massacres themselves were committed by the local collaborators. Not surprisingly, it was always downplayed and almost ignored in Soviet Union since "Friendship of Soviet Nations" slogan was above everything.That's a very whitewashing attitude towards Germans that you present. Wehrmacht committed atrocities right from the start (invasion and occupation of Poland), albeit their scale only grew large after invading CCCP.
It the devs wanted to be really edgy, they would let you play as legit Germans fighting against Ruskies and the allies and eventually win the war, somehow.
Not surprisingly, it was always downplayed and almost ignored in Soviet Union since "Friendship of Soviet Nations" slogan was above everything.
No widespread atrocities were actually committed.
The no widespread atrocities were committed is easily disproven by the mere fact that there's a nice monument in walking distance from my house to 120 civvies that got shot by Germans here for "retaliation" (a couple of partisans dared to place a tree trunk on a road and shoot a couple of MG volleys!, sure a terrible crime against the entirety of the German race). It helps that I've met the surviving relatives.
I never understood your tribe, "blame-shifters". War was 100% justified from the German side. German Empire, formed way too late, was on its way up but its ascendance was cut short in 1918. As 1930 rolled in, Germany found itself sidelined and at the sidewalk of the world's politics. Tommies and French enjoyed their vast colonial empires, USA was on the rise aside from the Great Depression, even USSR was starting to get along with the West and getting into the world's economic. Germany? No one asked opinion of German state on anything. Germany was still paying off, with castrated army, ruined economy and solely blamed for the past war, lost 10% of its size and being denied any colonies, with politics greatly disturbed by the communists. Without the war or at least a threat of it, Germany has the only choices of being subdued and reliant on England, France and USA or being choked and regressing to a second-rate state in the world's politics.Germany was forced into a war, it never wanted.
I never understood your tribe, "blame-shifters". War was 100% justified from the German side. German Empire, formed way too late, was on its way up but its ascendance was cut short in 1918. As 1930 rolled in, Germany found itself sidelined and at the sidewalk of the world's politics. Tommies and French enjoyed their vast colonial empires, USA was on the rise aside from the Great Depression, even USSR was starting to get along with the West and getting into the world's economic. Germany? No one asked opinion of German state on anything. Germany was still paying off, with castrated army, ruined economy and solely blamed for the past war, lost 10% of its size and being denied any colonies, with politics greatly disturbed by the communists. Without the war or at least a threat of it, Germany has the only choices of being subdued and reliant on England, France and USA or being choked and regressing to a second-rate state in the world's politics.Germany was forced into a war, it never wanted.
The thing to consider is that we can't really compare German anti-partisan actions with their analogues, since no one had faced a partisan movement in Europe so wide as Germans did: French Resistance, Polish partisans, Yugoslav partisans and numerous partisans in USSR to name the biggest ones. The simple truth is that Germans acted in Europe similarly to how everybody else acted in their colonies: the British conduct in the Second-Boer war or French rule in Indochina are not that different at all, it just happened far away from Europe and not always against other white people. It's a big question how Brits or Soviets would have dealt with theoretical German partisans since there was none; but you know, Soviets weren't too selective with their use of force when fighting UPA or Forest Brothers and Americans were completely willing to level entire towns with artillery and aviation at the sight of the slight resistance.The no widespread atrocities were committed is easily disproven by the mere fact that there's a nice monument in walking distance from my house to 120 civvies that got shot by Germans here for "retaliation" (a couple of partisans dared to place a tree trunk on a road and shoot a couple of MG volleys!, sure a terrible crime against the entirety of the German race). It helps that I've met the surviving relatives.
Easy as pie. Also, we're in Western Europe, for sure Bolshevik propaganda also, no?
There's no game to discuss yet, after Infinitron will split this thread it will become dead for another six monthsYou guys, uhh...
They should release the game or show more gameplay already
Yes the revision of the versaille treaty was justified, that is of course the crude historical distortion, but still efforts were made to prevent the war, and like you said Germany was beaten humiliated and weak state, but by the time of the first 4 year plan in 1936, germany was a prospering nation, and when they tried to reach full autarky thats when germany was forced in the war, it could neither want nor never win. The danger that the german system was adapted by other nations was too high, since they had an economic system where the international finance cartel couldn't leech of. That is the sole reason Hitler is presented as the ultimate evil to this day, because he showed the world how a nation can prosper if it freed itself from the international cartel, that controls germany now to this very day.
Are you sure that you saw the correct 1993 Stalingrad?Btw, when it comes to German deserters, the German movie Stalingrad (1993) had a much more credible take.
I had, but it was in 1993, so I got some things wrong indeed. Thanks!Are you sure that you saw the correct 1993 Stalingrad?Btw, when it comes to German deserters, the German movie Stalingrad (1993) had a much more credible take.
Protags are sent to penal battalion because they took their comrade to the medical station and took medic at the gunpoint. Later, they do execute civilians at the order of caricature hauptmann. In the end, when they try to escape, 6th army has already capitulated, Paulus shown walking into captivity in the previous scene. There's no desertion in the movie at all.
Can't wait to hit soldiers with a horsecock.There's /pol/tard edge, there's Panzer General "hands off just a wargame" theme, and there's Garth Ennis edge.
They're clearly going for the third. Again, this kind of discussion if probably the only thing they got for 'em
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It the devs wanted to be really edgy, they would let you play as legit Germans fighting against Ruskies and the allies and eventually win the war, somehow.
The first to commit suicide, by hanging, was the Cossack editor Evgenij Tarruski. The second was General Silkin, who shot himself...The Cossacks refused to board the trucks. British soldiers [armed] with pistols and clubs began using their clubs, aiming at the heads of the prisoners. They first dragged the men out of the crowd, and threw them into the trucks. The men jumped out. They beat them again, and threw them onto the floor of the trucks. Again, they jumped out. The British then hit them with rifle butts until they lay unconscious, and threw them, like sacks of potatoes, in the trucks.
First, they refused to leave their barracks when ordered to do so. The military police then used tear gas, and, half-dazed, the prisoners were driven under heavy guard to the harbor where they were forced to board a Soviet vessel. Here the two hundred immediately started to fight. They fought with their bare hands. They started – with considerable success – to destroy the ship's engines. ... A sergeant ... mixed barbiturates into their coffee. Soon, all of the prisoners fell into a deep, coma-like sleep. It was in this condition that the prisoners were brought to another Soviet boat for a speedy return to Stalin's hangmen