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Warcraft III: Reforged - now with lowest user metacritic score of all time

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Dawkinsfan69, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. catfood AGAIN

    catfood
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    Welcome to gaming in The Current Year™ where you have to pirate games that you already legally own.
     
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  2. Jigby Augur

    Jigby
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    Warcraft's heroes were all about introducing persistence to the genre, which is not the case with Starcraft, therefore the heroes there perform a significantly different function. Not sure about Myth. If you look at the early W3 design promises, persistence in general was supposed to play the major part, persistent heroes, persistent world where you choose missions instead of the classical linear compartmentalized RTS mission structure, etc. Most of that was scrapped obviously. Still, the heroes in wc3 have their moments, I particularly like how they played around with progression in Frozen Throne, where they inverted it, i.e. Arthas becoming weaker with missions completed.
     
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  3. J1M Arcane

    J1M
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    The Rexxar campaign is a lot closer to how they imagined Warcraft 3 when they first started working on it.
     
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  4. catfood AGAIN

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    The heroes worked well in the campaigns, it's their addition to the skirmish that was questionable.
     
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  5. Maculo Arcane

    Maculo
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    I spent part of the weekend playing the campaign on Hard. I heard that matchmaking was borked, so I just kept to the campaign. It's mixed so far. On one hand, I was not too keen on Blizzard changing the campaign much, but I still had hoped they would increase the difficulty.

    -With Culling of Stratholme, I feel Blizzard unintentionally made the mission even easier. Provided you leveled Divine Shield to tier 3 (45 second immunity, 60 second cooldown or 15 seconds without bubble), Arthas can solo-kill Malganis. Since Malganis can barely collect zombies, it makes the mission rather simple. Yet, Blizzard changed it to have Malganis also drop Robes of the Magi, Health Stones, and other +6 attribute items each time you kill him. With these items, Arthas can steamroll the map for the most part. One change I welcome, however, is that once you kill Malganis his forces immediately rush your base, which added some excitement to the mission.

    -Fall of Silvermoon was mixed. I enjoyed the inclusion of new elven heroes to fight, but the AI needed to be more aggressive with unit creation and/or the ability to resurrect said heroes. Absent those changes, you can easily just grind them down. Although probably not optimal, I loved just spamming Unholy Frenzy on mass Crypt Fiends and watching everything die.

    -The last Undead mission was decent. The final rush was larger than I remember and it really came down to how well I managed the prior waves.​

    In terms of bugs, the campaign has been smooth (so far...), although some of the animations could use a touch-up. The menu screens are weird though, between weird load times and inconsistencies.
     
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  6. Harthwain Cipher

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    What WC3 brought to the table was that heroes weren't just renamed basic units with slightly different stats - they were stronger than any unit (with room to grow), had distinct visuals and unique abilities.

    They spiced up the combat. Otherwise it'd be just a regular RTS.
     
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  7. pomenitul Arbiter

    pomenitul
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    mfw

    [​IMG]

    …except unlike Sega et al., Blizzard won't acknowledge their failure, then return to the drawing board and deliver a palatable product.
     
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  8. GloomFrost Cipher

    GloomFrost
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    SC 2 Wings of Liberty wasnt bad. I would say the last good blizzard game.
     
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  9. Olinser Savant

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    I did enjoy Wings of Liberty, and I still enjoy watching pro Starcraft 2.

    Despite Blizzard's best efforts to abandon them, it is actually their most popular e-sport. I mean this year WTF, they made them chain-play through the bracket in a single day at Blizzcon.

    Now that ESL is in charge of it, it will probably get much more popular thanks to people that actually care about it running it. As opposed to Overshit which has this endless hype train for terrible ratings because nobody wants to watch the confused mess that is Overwatch.
     
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  10. Olinser Savant

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    They made the entire RoC campaigns easier because they forced it into modern balance. Previously if you played the RoC campaign it had the original units and was never affected by patch balancing. So a whole host of stuff became much better. Human campaign in particular because you're forced to use Paladin hero, the fact that Devotion Aura is now 2/3/4 instead of 1/2/3 as it originally was is a BIG DEAL, just as an example. So your units effectively have +1 armor than they would previously.

    And of course there's the fact that Low Upkeep and High Upkeep are at 50/80 rather than 40/70, which is a REALLY BIG DEAL in most missions.

    And of course the fact that heroes now have Hero damage instead of normal damage, and the heavy units like Knights/Abominations/Bears/Tauren now have the new Heavy armor that takes extra damage from Magic instead of Piercing.

    And for Night Elves the big one is that Protectors have Piercing instead of Siege damage so they're actually useful as defense.

    Plus the various unit buffs/rebalancing that have happened over the years.
     
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  11. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Supposedly March of the Scourge had the enemy liches removed according to what I've read elsewhere, can you confirm? That seems like a huge nerf to what was (IMO) the only difficult map of the human campaign.

    What exactly prevented you from killing Malganis with divine shield in the original game? I don't recall anything special that would stop you if you had level 3. Personally I always go devotion aura so I never tried this, mission was fairly easy either way. If you just mean that the items make the later missions easier then OK, but Heroes tended to get pretty OP anyway.

    Did they improve the early undead missions any? Pre Fall of Silvermoon basically had no strategy except zerging with max supply of ghouls and skeletons.
     
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  12. Olinser Savant

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    Nothing prevented you from Divine Shielding it before either. But the mission is so damn easy its just not necessary to cheese it.

    March of the Scourge still had liches as I recall.

    And no. Not much strategy early on because you're completely limited to ghouls meat wagons and necromancers so ghoul/skellie zerg is pretty much the only strategy until you get Crypt Fiends. About the only significant difference that I saw in the Undead campaign was that the Dalaran attack was completely different, much more linear, the archmages are basically in a straight line so you don't walk through 2 minutes of the dumb anti-undead field before you found the archmage and you didn't have to clear a big base. They added a small side quest with 9 mages to kill that give you a bunch of golems and some weak items.

    Nothing in particular for the Orc campaign was markedly different that I can recall. The only big one that I saw was that the final mission for some dumbfuck reason the Human base DID NOT have Jaina in it. So they're even weaker and more useless than before because they sit there with 0/0 never upgrading and can't even deal with the Infernal attacks without some kind of help.

    I'm still working through the NELF campaign - just finished that stupid rush mission on hard. Seriously the stupid timer is so goddamn fast that basically the only way possible to do it is build up a force, rush through the orc base and hope you have enough left after rushing through to deal with the guardians.
     
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  13. Maculo Arcane

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    Is March of the Scourge where you have to defend the city for 30 minutes? If so, then I can confirm. The Liches stayed in their base the entire time, which felt like a bug in retrospect. Granted, the final enemy wave(s) felt stronger than I remember. If the Liches joined in the final waves, it would make for a much better mission.

    As for Culling of Stratholme, I would not call Divine Shield mandatory, it is just an easy way to cheese the mission in the original. Compared to the original, Divine Shield cheese seems even better now due to the items and what appears to be a faster Holy Light cooldown (can kill Malganis in no time). Also, you are correct about the heroes, but I do not recall +6 attribute items dropping that early and for a task that is rather easy. Consequently, the campaign snowballs even harder.

    Pre-Fall of Silvermoon missions were the same (easy), whereas the Fall of Silvermoon and the last mission stood out for different reasons. Fall of Silvermoon had unique enemy heroes with little to no support. For example, one had mass invisibility and could ambush you. The problem is that even if you lost, you could just come back with a new army, while that mage had no additional reinforcements. Perhaps this was a bug? In contrast, the last minute rush in the final undead mission took me by surprise. Up until the final rush, everything was rather manageable, and then this giant force of knights, sorceresses, and gryphon riders just descend on you. It was just far stonger than I remember.

    Edit: Also, with Fall of Silvermoon, Slyvannas serves as a second hero, as opposed to just a special banshee. Her ability kit is virtually identical to Dark Ranger, except instead of Black Arrow she has Howl of Terror (50% damage reduction).
     
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  14. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Yep. Originally normal would have them attack with level 5 liches and hard level 6 I believe, so on hard they'd be casting their ultimate to utterly demolish any static defenses or farm walls you made. Of course the fact that you are also limited to footmen for melee who get utterly raped by frost nova also makes it hard.

    I'm sure someone will extract the level files and compare the two versions eventually. I remember loading up the levels in the map editor just to poke around and figure out all the secrets, probably 15 years ago. Most of the maps are pretty heavily scripted with static wave compositions and attack times.
     
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  15. Maculo Arcane

    Maculo
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    The Liches were present, they just did not join the waves. I do not recall the levels, but I can easily check later tonight.
     
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  16. sorinmask Just like Yves, I chase tales. Patron

    sorinmask
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    Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    EXCUSE ME?!?
     
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  17. Harthwain Cipher

    Harthwain
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    They butchered the story in S2 and the game itself was pretty mediocre.
    HE SAID: "RPG ARE ART"!
     
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  18. JBro Savant

    JBro
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    A wise philosopher once said: "RPG are art"
     
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  19. LabRat Educated

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  20. sorinmask Just like Yves, I chase tales. Patron

    sorinmask
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    I wish I could feel something about this.
     
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  21. Carceri Arcane

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  22. MWaser Arbiter

    MWaser
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    Can't wait for the same story of "We will never learn to stop trusting Blizzard" after Diablo 4 is released as a dysfunctional shitty mess of false advertising.
     
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  23. Nahel Arcane

    Nahel
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    Not so sure. This is a major screw-up. They will still have some loyal suckers but the brand took an heavy hit.
    Remember Bioware ? Its coming to Blizzard too
     
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  24. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer Sad Loser

    J_C
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    I can feel something. I feel happiness. I'm happy that these companies (Blizzard, Bioware) actually managed to fuck up on a level that only the most braindead cucksuckers fans defend them. Remember that these developers were fucking up their games for years now, but the sheeps were sucking it up. But Bioware destroyed their brand with Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem, and now Blizzard destroyed theirs with Diablo Immortal, the China support and now with WC3. And I'm happy. Because these companies don't deserve the good will they were still getting.
     
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