Was Warcraft 3 historically considered bad?

[Lyric Suite]

Also one of the first things that pissed me off about Warcraft 3 is how they pussified the paladins and even the knights. The ones from Warcraft 2 were such bad asses.

The very first thing that comes to mind when I recall knights from WarCraft 2 is the awesome baritone in their voice.

"For the king". "We move".

Those lines are burned into my brain forever.

 

[whocares]

It's fine and understandable not to like the WCIII art style, but you don't have to justify your taste with a pile of bullshit reasons.

WCIII is one of the very few early 3D games that understood its limitations and created a visual style that was distinct, had easily recognizable and readable visuals, ran reasonably well on contemporary PCs, and most importantly stood the test of time. As an avid 3D hater, I liked how WCIII looked on release, and I still think it looks great even today. It certainly looks better than Stormgate and ZeroSpace (not to mention the Reforged horrors). And back in the day it proved that 3D games didn't have to look like absolute eye-gouging ass. Going the more cartoony route where things didn't have to look too realistic is what allowed it to do this.

And let's be real with what we know today of juvenile cartoony graphics, you'd have to be a card-holding 'tard to put WCIII and modern Fortnight-looking slop in the same category.

 

[Grunker]

WC3 is the absolute herald of video game art decline, contaminating all other games with its horrid, cartoonish abominations since its release to this day. That Lyric Suite of all people would defend the era of superficial cartoonification is mind-boggling.

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's fine and understandable not to like the WCIII art style, but you don't have to justify your taste with a pile of bullshit reasons.

WCIII is one of the very few early 3D games that understood its limitations and created a visual style that was distinct, had easily recognizable and readable visuals, ran reasonably well on contemporary PCs, and most importantly stood the test of time. As an avid 3D hater, I liked how WCIII looked on release, and I still think it looks great even today. It certainly looks better than Stormgate and ZeroSpace (not to mention the Reforged horrors). And back in the day it proved that 3D games didn't have to look like absolute eye-gouging ass. Going the more cartoony route where things didn't have to look too realistic is what allowed it to do this.

And let's be real with what we know today of juvenile cartoony graphics, you'd have to be a card-holding 'tard to put WCIII and modern Fortnight-looking slop in the same category.

WC3 is the absolute herald of video game art decline, contaminating all other games with its horrid, cartoonish abominations since its release to this day. That @LyricSuite would defend the era of superficial cartoonification is mind-boggling.

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

If only Grunker had seen the post above i guess, or had learned how to read in the first place.

That said, i never had an issue with the art style of WC3 and i don't see what consequences did that have on anything. I think WoW did have an influence on future MMOs, but i'm not so sure about that either (WoW is the last MMO i played so i have no clue what the genre became after its release).

The real decline in gaming art for me started with the infantilization of visuals through the influence of the hipster indie crowd that culminated with mobile aesthetics (which is where Stormgate comes from). I don't see the connection with Warcraft 3 here, seems more like the influence comes from animated films (patently obvious in Overwatch). The first time i noticed it (and balked at it) was Torchlight.

 

[ghardy]

FWIW, I recently watched gameplay/commentary videos of the following:

• WarCraft 3
• StarCraft 2
• Tempest Rising
• Stormgate

As a spectator, plays of the first two are easily followed. Stuff is vivid, sounds are clear. The amount of care taken is plainly seen.

I can understand what's happening inTempest, even if it does overuse brown.

What must be said about Stormgate has been said. I'll wait for today's update to reach players before I form a refined opinion.

 

[cvv]

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

This. That's why I'm so torn about it coz I really loved to play it, vastly preferred the smaller armies and heroes to marine balls and zerg rushes. Always felt a spark of RPG in this. That's why my favourite ever RTS is the Middle-Earth one, that you can't buy anymore, with even bigger emphasis on heroes and you can level up even individual basic units.

But yeah, I only stopped being salty about that cancerous art style a few years ago. Mainly because it was replaced in popularity by creepy big-boobed 8yo cat girls with squeaky voices.

Now I'm not sure what's worse.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I've been ignoring Tempest Rising because it seems to have promise in what it wants to deliver (a proper C&C-like experience) but i have misgivings about who is making it so i'm gonna wait before i devote any interest in it.

C&C aesthetic is supposed to be more grounded than Warcraft/Sarcraft. One of my favored effects in the C&C games is how the whole screen would shake every time a building cracked or something big explored. The main reason C&C and Warcaft co-existed so well and didn't really spiral into a bitter emnity is that they were each the antithetis of the other so despite being competitors they didn't actually butt horns at all. You played one when you were bored of the other and vice versa.

That said, Stormgate is the worst offender by virtue of being promoted as a multiplayer game. Jank is tolerable in single player, much, much less so in multiplayer. And i do mean MUCH.

 

[Lyric Suite]

BTW, what i said regarding pastel mobile graphics, Heroes of the Storm, which i tried for about a week a few months ago, is a case in point. I didn't like how the game looked at all. Despite using the same engine as SC2 it looks like more flat and pastel than that game, and Heroes of the Storm didn't look anywhere near close to WC3 either.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I absolutely adore those those "early 3d" codex posts, particularly when coupled with firing shots about other people's oldschool credentials and what not

 

[Grunker]

It's fine and understandable not to like the WCIII art style, but you don't have to justify your taste with a pile of bullshit reasons.

WCIII is one of the very few early 3D games that understood its limitations and created a visual style that was distinct, had easily recognizable and readable visuals, ran reasonably well on contemporary PCs, and most importantly stood the test of time. As an avid 3D hater, I liked how WCIII looked on release, and I still think it looks great even today. It certainly looks better than Stormgate and ZeroSpace (not to mention the Reforged horrors). And back in the day it proved that 3D games didn't have to look like absolute eye-gouging ass. Going the more cartoony route where things didn't have to look too realistic is what allowed it to do this.

And let's be real with what we know today of juvenile cartoony graphics, you'd have to be a card-holding 'tard to put WCIII and modern Fortnight-looking slop in the same category.

WC3 is the absolute herald of video game art decline, contaminating all other games with its horrid, cartoonish abominations since its release to this day. That @LyricSuite would defend the era of superficial cartoonification is mind-boggling.

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

If only Grunker had seen the post above i guess, or had learned how to read in the first place.

The post is preposterously absurd. We had fifteen million games older than WC3 that managed to create beauty and functionality without spawning one of the most cancerous art genres that nerddom has ever witnessed, and which has since destroyed everything it has touched. 20 years of bad D&D-and-friends art can be ascribed solely to WC3's artstyle.

This:

And let's be real with what we know today of juvenile cartoony graphics, you'd have to be a card-holding 'tard to put WCIII and modern Fortnight-looking slop in the same category.

is the most baffling thing I've ever read since they look exactly alike. Fortnite could not exist without WC3's overexaggerated, juvenile cartoons. It is a direct lineage - evolution even. Diablo 3, D&D4E/Pathfinder, Heroes of Might & Magic 5, Fortnite - these are the exact examples someone would indeed use to damn WC3 art and everything that it stood for.

To deny this is either (a) ignorance, (b) dreadful taste or (c) sheer apologism from people who, understandably, love the game but can't bring themselves to acknowledge how ugly it is and how much it ruined video game art - and still does, to this day.

That game you remember so fondly for its visuals? The primary reason you didn't see that ever again is that after WC3, everything was WC3. And WC3 is a crime against the concept of visual appeal; the ultimate manchild aesthetic.

 

[Grunker]

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

yeah, I only stopped being salty about that cancerous art style a few years ago

As you can see, no liquid exists that can ever rid me of that salt. We went from this:

to this:

and it's all WC3. It revealed the true nature of their target audience to the suits. Before this, they thought they were making products for astute nerds with an interest in history and the fantastic.

After WC3, they realized they were selling ugly, commercialized children's toys made of poor quality plastic from Temu to manchildren.

 

[Maxie]

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

yeah, I only stopped being salty about that cancerous art style a few years ago

As you can see, no liquid exists that can ever rid me of that salt. We went from this:

to this:

and it's all WC3. It revealed the true nature of their target audience to the suits. Before this, they thought they were making products for astute nerds with an interest in history and the fantastic.

After WC3, they realized they were selling ugly, commercialized children's toys made of poor quality plastic from Temu to manchildren.

I hope you aren't for real. The picture above is a character portrait from Icewind Dale, which lucked out on portraits big time and isn't representative even of other Infinity Engine games. In case you forgot, BG portraits are a bunch of altered porn star pictures in really garish, really larpy fantasy gear, not unlike the one in the picture below. In-game, they're the same ugly ass sprites.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The post is preposterously absurd. We had fifteen million games older than WC3 that managed to create beauty and functionality without spawning one of the most cancerous art genres that nerddom has ever witnessed, and which has since destroyed everything it has touched. 20 years of bad D&D-and-friends art can be ascribed solely to WC3's artstyle.

The art style and the question of the graphics and the skill that went into making them are two completely separate issues.

I would also say if there is a problem with the art style, the blame should go on WoW rather than WC3, since the reason the latter used that specific style was precisely so you could see the unit and tell exactly what it was at a glance (notice how Reforge just made everything worse simply by virtue of going for a more high detail, realistic approach). I would also argue it was an attempt to circumvent the inherent limitations of early 3D graphics.

That they then just used what was intended for an isometric perspective and used the same assets for a third person game is where they "legitimized" the style in the way you are describing if indeed that's what happened. I remember looking at shots of WoW and not understanding if it was a joke or not, since it literally felt they had blown up the graphics of WC3 and then even went so far as removing some of the shadowing on top of it. WoW only looked half-away decent in motion from screenshots it felt like Blizzard was literally taking the piss on us by taking us into the "World" of Warcraft 3 in a manner similar to Tron or some shit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I hope you aren't for real. The picture above is a character portrait from Icewind Dale, which lucked out on portraits big time and isn't representative even of other Infinity Engine games.

It kinda is in a way. Infinite Engine games were among the apex of 2D pre-rendered visuals, with Icewind Dale being among the top in that respect. Sure it doesn't quite get to the level of the portraits but it's a fact the visuals of the game looked realistic and serious.

 

[cvv]

We went from this:

to this:

Or from this:

to this:

 

[cvv]

After WC3, they realized they were selling ugly, commercialized children's toys made of poor quality plastic from Temu to manchildren.

I suspect they realized even before how infantile the nerdspace is actually is, especially in Kwa, that's why they went with the lumpy, garish, plasticky style of W3 in the first place.

I'm actually shocked the creepy nuAnime trend isn't way more popular in Western games but I suspect it's like a tidal wave that's still a few miles away. No way men-in-suits don't see how Genshin Impact outperforms annual GDPs of smaller countries. Monthly.

 

[whocares]

Wow that warcraft III sure was the first game ever to have cartoony graphics and is to blame for the decline of the industry:

If you don't see that WCIII having bright cartoony visuals as a design choice to deal with technical limitations while still creating something worth looking at, and modern cartoony games looking how they do because kids today grew up on mobile games and like that garish flat aesthetic are in no way connected - there's no helping you.

These were WCIII's contemporaries in 3d:

I dare any motherfucker to tell me WCIII didn't age a million times better and is still nice to look at today.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Ooooh, that's a game worth discussing. For a change. Hijacking this thread to make it about B&B.

 

[Lacrymas]

I like WC3's graphics because they have style and it isn't a generic cartoony aesthetic.

 

[whocares]

Ooooh, that's a game worth discussing. For a change. Hijacking this thread to make it about B&B.

I'll be very grateful if anyone knows a way to play it on a modern PC without performing any arcane rituals and then having it run without slowdowns and visual artifacts. Last time I tried a few eyars ago, it was all sorts of messed up.

 

[Grunker]

The post is preposterously absurd. We had fifteen million games older than WC3 that managed to create beauty and functionality without spawning one of the most cancerous art genres that nerddom has ever witnessed, and which has since destroyed everything it has touched. 20 years of bad D&D-and-friends art can be ascribed solely to WC3's artstyle.

The art style and the question of the graphics and the skill that went into making them are two completely separate issues.

I would also say if there is a problem with the art style, the blame should go on WoW rather than WC3, since the reason the latter used that specific style was precisely so you could see the unit and tell exactly what it was at a glance (notice how Reforge just made everything worse simply by virtue of going for a more high detail, realistic approach). I would also argue it was an attempt to circumvent the inherent limitations of early 3D graphics.

That they then just used what was intended for an isometric perspective and used the same assets for a third person game is where they "legitimized" the style in the way you are describing if indeed that's what happened. I remember looking at shots of WoW and not understanding if it was a joke or not, since it literally felt they had blown up the graphics of WC3 and then even went so far as removing some of the shadowing on top of it. WoW only looked half-away decent in motion from screenshots it felt like Blizzard was literally taking the piss on us by taking us into the "World" of Warcraft 3 in a manner similar to Tron or some shit.

WoW merely finalized WC3’s aethestic vision

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Ooooh, that's a game worth discussing. For a change. Hijacking this thread to make it about B&B.

I'll be very grateful if anyone knows a way to play it on a modern PC without performing any arcane rituals and then having it run without slowdowns and visual artifacts. Last time I tried a few eyars ago, it was all sorts of messed up.

It was an EA game, right? Back when they used to release good stuff. Probably too niche for anyone to care and try to put on GOG.

I might try running it on my old games dedicated machine, got me in the mood.

 

[whocares]

It was an EA game, right? Back when they used to release good stuff. Probably too niche for anyone to care and try to put on GOG.

Yup EA. Funny to think now that they would actually make good games. And nope, it's not on GOG.

You can find some old copies on the high seas, but none of them worked without issues for me sadly.

 

[Grunker]

The game was good, but its art design had catastrophic consequences.

yeah, I only stopped being salty about that cancerous art style a few years ago

As you can see, no liquid exists that can ever rid me of that salt. We went from this:

to this:

and it's all WC3. It revealed the true nature of their target audience to the suits. Before this, they thought they were making products for astute nerds with an interest in history and the fantastic.

After WC3, they realized they were selling ugly, commercialized children's toys made of poor quality plastic from Temu to manchildren.

I hope you aren't for real. The picture above is a character portrait from Icewind Dale, which lucked out on portraits big time

What a crock of shit. Most of AD&D's art is fantastic - and even when it isn't, we're discussing style and aesthethic vision here, not execution. Even when OD&D art was bad, the style was much more intriguing.

(And before you pull that strawman - remember I'm no grognard. I hate AD&D's design.)

You're deluding yourself if you think Icewind Dale is some cherry-picked example - hell, my avatar is from an artist who shat out amazing fantasy out brick by brick by brick and whose art style - copied and spammed everywhere in RPGs at the time - was the primary casualty of WC3 art.

 

[Grunker]

I dare any motherfucker to tell me WCIII didn't age a million times better and is still nice to look at today.

You're confusing style with execution. WC3 executed sublimely on the worst fantasy art ever made in the west, which is part of why it succeeded in supplanting the greatness that came before it.

It is very unconvincing to defend this by saying "but look at these other games that executed their art style very poorly."

But what are we even arguing? Are you guys actually defending WC3 and WoW art vis a vis classic fantasy art?