Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[likaq]

Ok, let's see:

Fallout 2 doesnt have filler town

Yeah, Klamath, Modoc and Arroyo were awesome, interesting, full of superb quests and they add plenty of interest things to fallout setting and lore. Especially arroyo wasn't filler location

But I think the world in Fallout 2 was better than Fallout 1

Indeed, shit jokes, ghosts, aliens, pinky and the brain, scientologists with celebrities , bruce lee, talking plants, sex stats, porn collect-a-quests, more references to monty python than you can count, yakuza with samurai swords, king-fu fighting town, tribals, drug dealers, talking deathclaws, entire Temple of Trials, cheating chess-playing radscorpion with fucking glasses you can steal, ass-raping mutant with a ball gag, knights on a quest for a Holy Hand Grenade. Yes, world of fallout 2 was better.M:

with no boring parts

True, Temple of Trials, ant's hunting in Broken Hills and rat's hunting in Klamath were very intresting

 

[Infinitron]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=794

What to Avoid: Speech/Skill Checks

Okay, the OP here clarified that what he meant was speech checks that are explicitly mentioned, ie, "[Speech] Let me convince you to let me in here..."
So hidden, implicit speech checks would be okay by him.

That's actually a point for debate. What do you think, Codex? Is it better that the speech checks are explicitly displayed so that one can strategically build up his character to succeed at them? Or is that metagaming that destroys roleplaying and the game's perceived depth and replayability?
Choose carefully or you may be accused of being a LARPer.

 

[skuphundaku]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=794

What to Avoid: Speech/Skill Checks

Okay, the OP here clarified that what he meant was speech checks that are explicitly mentioned, ie, "[Speech] Let me convince you to let me in here..."
So hidden, implicit speech checks would be okay by him.

That's actually a point for debate. What do you think, Codex? Is it better that the speech checks are explicitly displayed so that one can strategically build up his character to succeed at them? Or is that metagaming that destroys roleplaying and the game's perceived depth and replayability?
Choose carefully or you may be accused of being a LARPer.

If there were a poll, I would vote for hidden/non-explicit skill checks.

 

[Kitako]

Multiple checks, when the skill would be usable.
Too often the speech check is chosen just because you can, without even considering the other replies.
So, either go for hidden checks, or multiple ways in the same conversation to use your skill, or make the skill check appear deeper in the conversation tree, if you lead the conversation the right way.

 

[mondblut]

That's actually a point for debate. What do you think, Codex? Is it better that the speech checks are explicitly displayed so that one can strategically build up his character to succeed at them? Or is that metagaming that destroys roleplaying and the game's perceived depth and replayability?

When there is a fuckton of skills like persuasion, intimidation, seduction, what have you, not displaying which one is about to be used is absurd. Like, how about we hide which skill governs the use of a particular weapon?

When there is one popamole "me does talking" skill, no reason to underline which lines are very speshul. Okay, a percentage chance is a good indicator you should stop talking for a bit and save your game first, but I am used to save before every dialogue anyway

 

[Roguey]

Brother None put an end to the gay chat days ago and you people are still crying over it. That says something.

I like how you can hit on a few companions in FNV but they won't give a shit and return your affection even if you are the right gender. It's like they gave a good satisfying fuck you to all the Biowhores. That game is so awesome on so many levels.

Sarah Weintraub and Red Lucy are romanced through gift giving, Benny can be seduced by black widows, then there are the prostitutes....

 

[evdk]

Sarah Weintraub and Red Lucy are romanced through gift giving

An innovation shamelessly stolen from DA:O!

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

What do you think, Codex?.

Not trying to start up the "This is Wasteland NOT Fallout 1 or 2" bees nest, but I loved the way FO2 handled it (i.e. different traits and skills gave extra dialogue options ((instead of percentages)) and the option for the empathy perk in case you were too retarded).

EDIT: I don't literally mean "traits" as in Fallout Traits, but like, personality traits "perception, intelligence, etc".

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I demand that a Casanova mutant with multiple dicks eventually visits all your paramours and they break up with you saying that "Sorry *charname*, your dick just can't compare." for a tasteful :forever alone: feeling.

At the end of the game, if you ever made use of the "split up the party" mechanic, you find out your lover has been cheating on you with another party member. Both leave the party, holding hands. As they walk into the sunset, a gunshot is heard. She looks back, but all you see in her eyes before everything goes black is scorn and pity. Fin.

One week after the game's release, Fargo's body is found.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

What do you think, Codex?.

Not trying to start up the "This is Wasteland NOT Fallout 1 or 2" bees nest, but I loved the way FO2 handled it (i.e. different traits and skills gave extra dialogue options ((instead of percentages)) and the option for the empathy perk in case you were too retarded).

EDIT: I don't literally mean "traits" as in Fallout Traits, but like, personality traits "perception, intelligence, etc".

Yeah, I dislike the percentage thing since it tempts the player to savescum, just like lockpicking, crafting and the like. Either let me do it or give me a "no, fuck off for now, come back when you are skilled enough".

I don't mind having the used skill show up, my immershun is pretty resistant.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Well I realize "replay value" just got shot down but from somebody who does replay games which give me good reason to, I love not even knowing a certain option existed (if I build a character a certain way, well, that's the only reason I should know about said options).

 

[sgc_meltdown]

just let the damn option show up if you're qualified without labelling it, there's still a challenge there and these days it is called reading the damn line and considering whether it'll provide a good outcome
sure add the skill used in brackets or someshit

Like I have said in the past even a moronic nextgen roleplayer lord of immersion should be able to realise that a speech option talking about firearms is probably using the guns skill and having [Guns] there is no great immersion breaker, you are selecting from lines in front of a face ffs when will you bastards into concept of consistant ui abstraction and feedback

extra speech options is just instant reward when you get the chance option in rpgs anyway for investing in non-combat skills and can be interpretated as micro narrative autobranching on a per-character basis

 

[villain of the story]

Brother None put an end to the gay chat days ago and you people are still crying over it. That says something.


Sarah Weintraub and Red Lucy are romanced through gift giving, Benny can be seduced by black widows, then there are the prostitutes....

They aren't companion NPCs, mang.

 

[Oesophagus]

At the end of the game, if you ever made use of the "split up the party" mechanic, you find out your lover has been cheating on you with another party member. Both leave the party, holding hands. As they walk into the sunset, a gunshot is heard. She looks back, but all you see in her eyes before everything goes black is scorn and pity. Fin.

And then when the endgame narration comes it is explained that they lived happily ever after and sometimes had sex on your grave

 

[Metro]

One of the (more common) questions I am asked is whether we'll support console...

Fucking people...

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Ironically console and handhelds are not dead wastelands for the turn-based genre. Nippon simply doesn't give a fuck about PC unless it's about porting an action game over. Like bizarro western games industry.

 

[Metro]

I won't turn this into a 'fuck jrpgs' thread but I think you can glean my stance from that.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

In these dark days there is enough fuck to go around for all rpgs, brother Metro.

 

[Alex]

Like I said in the thread, I think it makes more sense in this kind of game for skills to not even show up as a dialog option,, but instead to be triggered by using the right skill in the right moment during dialog. Doing so, the devs can throw subtle clues in dialog and let the players figure out what to do.

 

[Infinitron]

Like I said in the thread, I think it makes more sense in this kind of game for skills to not even show up as a dialog option,, but instead to be triggered by using the right skill in the right moment during dialog. Doing so, the devs can throw subtle clues in dialog and let the players figure out what to do.

That would be an interesting and unique approach, yes.

 

[Vault Dweller]

One of the (more common) questions I am asked is whether we'll support console...

Fucking people...

 

[I_am_Ian]

Are you implying you get the same question, VD?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm agreeing with Metro. Wholeheartedly.

 

[MetalCraze]

Stoic's kickstarter already went down the drain. Leaving EA to make Final Fantasy Tactics crap. Sounds smart.
I have a bad feeling about this... With 1.5 years long dev cycle and all.

That would be an interesting and unique approach, yes.

cRPGs were doing it in 20th century.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

using the right skill in the right moment during dialog.

I hope you don't mean there's reaction time involved

In any case

1) what's to stop the player from trying all his moderate-high skills at any perceived turning point during a conversation (limiting amount of tries? based on charisma?) And to aid the player: what subtle clues exactly, are you thinking up to specific interface cues like a small icon indicating 'something extra to be found'? Or just judge according to dialog?

2) There should be free for all skillcheck branches you can trigger at any time, like for example doing something non time critical(i.e. not a hostage situation, etc)but still requiring specialist knowledge to start, like beginning a conversation about advanced battlefield surgery. Or is that too casual and without a sense of urgency

3) What about feedback upon failure, should there any at all like continuing from the previous example the doctor might say "I'll teach you more but you should get your fundamentals down first", or when there isn't such an option at all? I'm thinking a random line from a pool of responses for each skill that npcs won't talk about.

4)Oh god what about the adventure gamey 'use item on npc" command, or should items that begin quests automatically give you access to the new dialog

bro don't mind the questioning think of it as a codexian reaction to any feature being described as opposed to the usual gamer response of "sounds awesome and innovative"