Game News Wasteland 2 to use Unity

[Clockwork Knight]

It's nothing to do with users or even management. Everything to do with consoles, engines, and cutting costs.

But that doesn't make sense when you have older games which are more complex than newer ones.

I want the nostalgia back not the lack of knowledge or hairy chest.

You had a hairy chest when you were a child? Why did the hair fall off as you grew older?

 

[koyima]

I don't know who's right or wrong(my money's on inXile) but I know that of all the pseudo devs here, only koyima has managed to give me such an awesome avatar...

The teeth are fantastic.

That, the strange white man trying to be an Indian look(Wyrmlord in reverse) and the ambiguous weapon/hand that looks like a mailed fist doing the 'jerk off' action...

Just and FYI, I didn't do that Avatar. I did an Orc, a Blacksmith, a Wizard, some backdrops and about 50-60 inventory items. You can see some of the stuff here. These are simply some frames or raw backdrops (scaled to half size).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z2tkosj5snhvpd3/gIXx2vrH9W

 

[koyima]

As DU said, quantity of games made is a silly argument, that appeals neither to serious developers, nor hardcore players. One excellent game is all it takes to prove an engine and some engines are not capable of that excellent game, because they don't deliver on performance or API. Fallout 1 and 2, are the only games made with that engine. Damn fine RPG engine, but by koyima's reasoning, it is a failure.

Again when comparing two engines that have similar properties, having more titles completed is a plus, it means the thing actually works.

It's like when comparing programmers: if they have similar qualifications and one has 10 titles completed, even shitty small ones and the other has none or one made in Uni with no guarantee he did all the work. The one with 10 shitty
games will be preferred, because he can at least complete stuff.

Gamebryo isn't the best engine, but as someone pointed out hundreds of games have been made with it. You see
developers looked at Oblivion and chose based on the idea: if it can help make Oblivion, it can make our shitty game.


You can say anything (C4 is awesome, Unity is crap), but the numbers won't lie, if C4 is so awesome why doesn't it have the titles. Fallout games were awesome because of their developers.Talk is talk, features list are just that.
Personal bias is personal bias. Now if you had 3 mil and felt you could count on C4 that's your choice, but you don't so we won't find out.

The engine is just a tool, but a tool you have to make a decision on, some factors come into play, they explained them in the article. I really doubt C4 was even on the table.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

It occurs to me we get most of our new users through butthurt. No wonder we get so many problems.

it's that same butthurt that gives them the courage to stand up to the bad codex community and fight their good fight with their words

as opposed to lurkers who get the codex but are afraid to post because they don't think they can tank or kite the codex properly yet

 

[koyima]

Childhood destroyed.

 

[koyima]

Drocon: seriously though, it seems like I am the only that is not anonymous, why don't you post your stuff?

 

[Davaris]

but the numbers won't lie, if C4 is so awesome why doesn't it have the titles. Fallout games were awesome because of their developers.

Not back to this koyima. DU destroyed your central argument and you spluttered and ran away. We checked the number of serious games made with Unity, and there are only 3. The rest are shovelware made by hobbyists.

Seriously, you are an artist, right? What software do "serious" artists use? Do they use Daz3D or 3D Studio Max? There are more Daz3D users than Max users, so Daz3D is better than Max. That is your argument in a nutshell.

 

[Davaris]

if C4 is so awesome why doesn't it have the titles.

If Unity is so awesome, why doesn't it have the serious titles? Shovelware does not count koyima. Wasteland 2 is not shovelware.

 

[kazgar]

Holy fucken fuckballs, this game better not be delayed any day longer than the 18 months they proposed, I don't think i'm going to be able to handle the constant bitching about every minuscule update much longer than that based on what's happened so far.

 

[koyima]

If you aregue though that Unity doesn't have good games, yet support C4, which has virtually none, then what can I say. Compared to other engines (unreal,gamebryo) Unity is weak in the AAA department, but if Unity is weak, by the same standards C4 is non-existent

 

[koyima]

but the numbers won't lie, if C4 is so awesome why doesn't it have the titles. Fallout games were awesome because of their developers.

Not back to this koyima. DU destroyed your central argument and you spluttered and ran away. We checked the number of serious games made with Unity, and there are only 3. The rest are shovelware made by hobbyists.

Seriously, you are an artist, right? What software do "serious" artists use? Do they use Daz3D or 3D Studio Max? There are more Daz3D users than Max users, so Daz3D is better than Max. That is your argument in a nutshell.

3dsmax has 300.000 registered (legit) users. I don't think this would be a valid comparison, cos every guy with an architecture firm has it, it doesn't make him pro, just not stupid.

You say Unity only has 3 serious titles, but C4 has none.

 

[tiagocc0]

Dang, I should stop posting my pics on the internet.. just one more and I'm stopping!

 

[Davaris]

Drocon: seriously though, it seems like I am the only that is not anonymous, why don't you post your stuff?

I spent most of last year, transferring code from my old 2D game into my C4 project. That is thousands upon thousands of lines of code, that had to be changed from outdated inheritance heir achy to modern component based design.That code would not work in Unity. I tried it and saw it wouldn't work.

I spent the first part of this year, mucking about making a recast navigation tool for the editor, so the C4 community can use it. That means dynamic navigation using all cores. Try that using single core and you get 1 frame per 20 seconds.

Before that I knew squat about 3D and advanced C++. I was a 2D hacker and have improved a great deal, working with Eric's professional source code and those skills are transferable outside of C4.

So what do I have to show you that would impress you? A picture of a recast navigation editor? Does anyone want to see that? I really doubt it.

 

[Davaris]

You say Unity only has 3 serious titles, but C4 has none.

Does it even have 3? Are all finished?

C4 has simulation titles, and it is used by Universities to teach undergrads - you know the kind of places people study, to get degrees that are worth something. Not serious?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Dang, I should stop posting my pics on the internet

Spoiler

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SZNcUmf2qEA/Tg32HgZ64gI/AAAAAAAABf0/al30hxegq6w/s1600/What+The+Hell.jpg
http://www.nerdgasmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ladyskeletor2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_msb7eQA-RFY/TNMziLqt9qI/AAAAAAAACXY/E87ydqUE1Xg/s1600/skeletor.jpg
http://www.kotzendes-einhorn.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/skeletor-saves.jpg

 

[koyima]

Drocon: seriously though, it seems like I am the only that is not anonymous, why don't you post your stuff?

I spent most of last year, transferring code from my old 2D game into my C4 project. That is thousands upon thousands of lines of code, that had to be changed from outdated inheritance heir achy to modern component based design.That code would not work in Unity. I tried it and saw it wouldn't work.

I spent the first part of this year, mucking about making a recast navigation tool for the editor, so the C4 community can use it. That means dynamic navigation using all cores. Try that using single core and you get 1 frame per 20 seconds.

Before that I knew squat about 3D and advanced C++. I was a 2D hacker and have improved a great deal, working with Eric's professional source code and those skills are transferable outside of C4.

So what do I have to show you that would impress you? A picture of a recast navigation editor? Does anyone want to see that? I really doubt it.

Are you Drocon? He is the one mentioning a game he is making.

Simulation titles you say, nice. Post something worth showing.

Don't forget Unity has only been out for PC for the past 3 years.

 

[lmbarns]

Nobody actually read why they chose Unity for Wasteland 2 did they? http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/blog/2012/05/16/inxile-chooses-unity-for-wasteland-2/ Pretty simple and straightforward article about they're own research and findings.

I guess they're just a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they're doing and no experience relative to you RPGtampons...

Same with these fuckfaces: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan I mean why even raise a budget I mean that money could be used to make a C4 game!

 

[sgc_meltdown]

yeah, it would be nice if the detractors(and I don't mean this in a bad way, it's your stance after all) could apply the art of quote-battle to that latest update

 

[tiagocc0]

Dang, I should stop posting my pics on the internet

Spoiler

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SZNcUmf2qEA/Tg32HgZ64gI/AAAAAAAABf0/al30hxegq6w/s1600/What The Hell.jpg
http://www.nerdgasmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/ladyskeletor2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_msb7eQA-RFY/TNMziLqt9qI/AAAAAAAACXY/E87ydqUE1Xg/s1600/skeletor.jpg
http://www.kotzendes-einhorn.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/skeletor-saves.jpg

I was told to evacuate the building the next time you posted links!

 

[Davaris]

Don't forget Unity has only been out for PC for the past 3 years.

Excuses. Excuses.

And I see you have said 3DMax is better, yet it has less users. Oh well... Why is Max better than Daz3D?

Daz3D is easier to use and has more users... Daz3D has heavy VC backing.... These are your arguments, not mine.


This is why you don't talk to artists about 'serious' programming...

This is why you don't talk to programmers about 'serious' art....

 

[koyima]

Nobody actually read why they chose Unity for Wasteland 2 did they? http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/blog/2012/05/16/inxile-chooses-unity-for-wasteland-2/ Pretty simple and straightforward article about they're own research and findings.

I guess they're just a bunch of idiots who have no idea what they're doing and no experience relative to you RPGtampons...

Same with these fuckfaces: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/486250632/republique-by-camouflaj-logan I mean why even raise a budget I mean that money could be used to make a C4 game!

Don't you know? It was a conspiracy, you see there is this great engine "C4" and it has zero titles, but the best god damn code on this planet, these Unity guys used their money and connections
to trick Fargo into using Unity. He has only been in the industry for like 30+ years, so he was easy to fool. The rest of the details are explained by Davaris here.

 

[tiagocc0]

Don't forget Unity has only been out for PC for the past 3 years.

Excuses. Excuses.

And I see you have said 3DMax is better, yet it has less users. Oh well... Why is Max better than Daz3D?

Daz3D is easier to use and has more users... Daz3D has heavy VC backing.... These are your arguments, not mine.


This is why you don't talk to artists about 'serious' programming...

This is why you don't talk to programmers about 'serious' art....

Damn you for making me want to try out C4!

 

[Davaris]

Are you Drocon? He is the one mentioning a game he is making.

No. I don't talk about what I am making unless it is finished. Right now I am transferring 2D RPG code, into a 3D engine. That's all.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

I was told to evacuate the building the next time you posted links!

those are actually very easygoing links, you might even find that last one to be avatar-worthy I think

were we in BTE you would get the big boys treatment

anyway guys heads up
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2131

If you have a passion for post-apocalytic goodness, experience working with Unity and amazing programming skills, please send your resume to jobs[at]inxile.net. We thought we’d put this out on our blog and forums first, before opening up the search further. Feel free to spread the word if you know of the perfect person.

We are looking for experienced engineers and engineering interns.

go get your share of the 3 millions

 

[koyima]

Don't forget Unity has only been out for PC for the past 3 years.

Excuses. Excuses.

And I see you have said 3DMax is better, yet it has less users. Oh well... Why is Max better than Daz3D?

Daz3D is easier to use and has more users... Daz3D has heavy VC backing.... These are your arguments, not mine.


This is why you don't talk to artists about 'serious' programming...

This is why you don't talk to programmers about 'serious' art....

You do understand that there is more than one software package out there, right?

In the 3d app world there is Max, Maya, SoftImage, Houdini.
There is also Daz, Poser, Bryce etc

In the 3d engine world there is: Unreal, CryEngine and now Unity.
There is also: Gamemaker, Adventure maker etc

The division is not by popularity, but by quality.

Though when you are considering making a project and you are comparing Max and Maya, you ask
how many people use this to make cinematics? How many people use this to make games? How many games have they finished?
They did the effects with Houdini you say?

So when the comparison comes to Unity and Unreal, they say yeah we can make what we want with Unreal, but it costs too much.

So they look at C4 and they say well it looks good on paper, but there aren't many games that have been done with it. There are
basically 3 from one team, 3 for another, 1 from the engine creators and a few more that look worse than Unity's shovelware.
I don't feel confident we can complete a game with that engine... were will I find programmers that are familiar with it? I don't know.
It seems like it's being used by Davaris, Drocon and 10 others....

But no it's a stupid metric to have, that's why everyone hires based on resume, there is no probationary period, there is no need for
past work examples. Let's just bet on C4 and it's 1 developer, who will always be available whenever we need him.