Game News Wasteland 2 to use Unity

[mindx2]

Here's how Fallout 1 might have looked, if they had used Unity3D 2 years ago and indies had made it:
(snip)

When I saw it back then, I thought it looked pretty great for an indie project. Brian Fargo's crew can do a lot better, but it gives you a very rough idea of what to expect.

That looks fine to me. If Wasteland 2 looks "kind of" like that and has all the other, you know, game-play parts they promised (turn-based, party, c&c, multiple solutions, etc.) I'll feel like the is firmly in place. Not quite sure what some of you are expecting...

 

[FeelTheRads]

Drocon, what is your take on these claims:

- The new GUI system, which will make it easier to make animated UIs. Beyond that there are already 3 commercial grade GUI solutions. Scaleform is also getting a Unity version and it's easy as hell to write your own.

Is there more to them than "it will come" and "we will have it", which as we all know most of the time means jack shit.

 

[tiagocc0]

To put it simpler, it's just like with languages,

Plenty of tards will say you can do anything with any language. But while it may not matter too much if all you do is webpages you will have a hard time making photoshop with perl.

It's not a anything with any language, but for a team of veterans programmers the language won't matter that much. But time will vary a lot from language to language depending on what you're doing.
But I agree with you, if I could choose the engine I would never use Unity. But if they are going for it I think they could manage not because Unity can deliver but because anything that the engine doesn't provide they will probably hack it and I sure am praying that they do not try hacking with scripts.

 

[20 Eyes]

This was never going to happen anyway. How many multimillion dollar commercial games are open sourced?

Doom 3? Arx Fatalis? Penumbra? JA2? ...

So 4 out of a couple thousand or so...

 

[Jaesun]

This was never going to happen anyway. How many multimillion dollar commercial games are open sourced?

Doom 3? Arx Fatalis? Penumbra? JA2? ...

So 4 out of a couple thousand or so...

He answered your question.

 

[20 Eyes]

This was never going to happen anyway. How many multimillion dollar commercial games are open sourced?

Doom 3? Arx Fatalis? Penumbra? JA2? ...

So 4 out of a couple thousand or so...

He answered your question.

I'm not implying that he didn't. I just think it's odd that someone would be disappointed or surprised because something that was very unlikely to happen isn't going to happen.

 

[Burning Bridges]

. I thought they could afford to go for something more hardcore.

Like? What is the point of what you call "hard-core"? What would the benefit be?
You have to realize that RPGs have vast amount of content, so it is priority number one to easilty get and implement content.

Noob

 

[Kz3r0]

I chime in in this interesting debate to signal a project that decided to use a custom made engine:

Our friends over at Divergent Games will be teaming up with us to make a custom game engine specifically designed for Echoes of Eternia! This engine will allow us to do FAR more than before. I am beyond excited for this team up and it has given me an incredible surge or inspiration.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ternia-a-modern-take-on-a-classic-desig/posts

 

[koyima]

. I thought they could afford to go for something more hardcore.

Like? What is the point of what you call "hard-core"? What would the benefit be?
You have to realize that RPGs have vast amount of content, so it is priority number one to easilty get and implement content.

Noob

Burning Bridges: Point me to a hard-core engine. Show me. Seriously.

It's much worse in RPG maker but the same idea does apply to all engines to some degree. Of course if you have 3 million bucks and some kickstarter fame you can probably just tell them what changes you want to the engine to suit your needs, as the scaleform info implies happened.

Drocon: Not at all what happened. You have to fit events into a timeline. Scaleform has turned into an industry standard, meanwhile it has been acquired by Autodesk, now the dust has settled and they are moving forward. Wasteland hadn't even started it's campaign when the first news about this hit the forums.

I think it's fairly obvious you don't know what Unity is. They are funded by Sequoia, the same fund that has funded the likes of Apple, Atari, EA, NVidia and so much more you would go blind. They are currently 150 developers strong. They aren't your garden variety software team waiting for their big client to roll-up (though a AAA production would further boost their reach).

 

[Davaris]

I think it's fairly obvious you don't know what Unity is. They are funded by Sequoia, the same fund that has funded the likes of Apple, Atari, EA, NVidia and so much more you would go blind. They are currently 150 developers strong. They aren't your garden variety software team waiting for their big client to roll-up (though a AAA production would further boost their reach).

Zenimax/Bethesda, produce the most excellent games, because they have so much money backing them?

 

[koyima]

I think it's fairly obvious you don't know what Unity is. They are funded by Sequoia, the same fund that has funded the likes of Apple, Atari, EA, NVidia and so much more you would go blind. They are currently 150 developers strong. They aren't your garden variety software team waiting for their big client to roll-up (though a AAA production would further boost their reach).

Zenimax/Bethesda, produce the most excellent games, because they have so much money backing them?

Davaris: Of course it helps, but that is not what I am saying. Drocon thinks that Unity is waiting for big clients with big money in order to add features. I explained to him why that is not the case: they have monies, lot's of it.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Casual game engine, oh wow. Confirmed for shit.
Good thing I never pre-ordered.

 

[koyima]

Casual game engine, oh wow. Confirmed for shit.
Good thing I never pre-ordered.

What engine were you hoping for? Honest question.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Something that's not shit, hurr.

 

[J_C]

Engines are not shit. People who can't program the engines are shit.

Honestly, people who are already bashing Wasteland 2 just because it is not using their desired engine: Fuck you and GTFO!

 

[koyima]

Engines are not shit. People who can't program the engines are shit.

Honestly, people who are already bashing Wasteland 2 just because it is not using their desired engine: Fuck you and GTFO!

People who are bashing an engine choice should at least post "their alternative" so I can point and laugh.

 

[Ulminati]

So what engine would you have them use if not unity? Unity seems like a fairly solid choice to me.
It's somewhat flexible, it has a full suite of development tools. It's well-documented and has an active community. It means the codemonkeys can get to work making the actual game rather than spend the first 6-8 months writing and documenting an engine and a toolset. Yes, it's sluggish if you just include every goddamn library in the api. But 1) I doubt they're dumb enough to do that and 2) even fi they do it's turn-based so we (hopefully) won't notice the .2sec delay between commands beign given and executed.

What engine were you hoping for? Honest question.

The engine that's being used in Overgrowth!

 

[koyima]

Engines are not shit. People who can't program the engines are shit.

Honestly, people who are already bashing Wasteland 2 just because it is not using their desired engine: Fuck you and GTFO!

People who are bashing an engine choice should at least post "their alternative" so I can point and laugh.

Or you could try reading the fucking thread and seeing one of the hundred places it's mentioned before wasting our time with your nonsense.

Drocon: what you mean the joke about using C4, were you serious? Oh, didn't get that, I thought that all the videos you posted actually proved it is useless.

They have 18 games currently in production or finished. Half of them look like they came out of the bargain bin, I don't think any made it onto steam and not even one licensed game (meaning a team actually working with a publisher) and you bash Unity as casual?

The engine that's being used in Overgrowth!

Ulminati: You be trollin...
You mention 6-8 months for an engine.. that is well very optimistic. Even if you did manage to make something worth publishing in 6-8 months, do you really think it would compare to something having 10 years of development behind it?
Unless the programmers are some alien species, making something in less than a year that compares to something made in 10, is pretty much imposibru.
Anyway I have been using Unity on Android devices (Kindle Fire), it is really responsive, actually a parallel team working alongside me, decided to switch from Native to Unity.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

I'm not bashing anything, I'm just shitposting, don't mind me.
Seriously though, I have no problem with Unity. Engine seems diverse enough, and it's a good thing they are hiring programmers that are familiar with it.

I haven't followed this news closely, but is it stated if they are going for the Pro license version of Unity?

Also, is Linux supported with Unity already, or is that a feature for the future?

 

[koyima]

I'm not bashing anything, I'm just shitposting, don't mind me.
Seriously though, I have no problem with Unity. Engine seems diverse enough, and it's a good thing they are hiring programmers that are familiar with it.

I haven't followed this news closely, but is it stated if they are going for the Pro license version of Unity?

Also, is Linux supported with Unity already, or is that a feature for the future?

Nattvardsvin: Well Unity's licensing scheme makes it clear that a company netting over 100K get's Pro. You can't mix Pro and Free (licensing terms), so it should be all Pro. Compared to other software Unity is fairly priced.

Linux is something that has been discussed over and over, over at Unity. It is something I think their devs do want to do, but it hasn't made business sense (they have given numbers for this), maybe now is the time.

 

[tiagocc0]

Unity has taken over? Time to move again.

 

[koyima]

Why does Oblivion Unity suck so much?

Oh god, I have become an agent of great decline once again. Please forgive me, Codex, a new era will be upon us soon.

In my defense I have astonishing tooth pain today, but I should have thunk things through before summoning Unity bots.

Oblivion was made using Gamebryo, heavily modified to the extent of unrecognizable (from what I've read).

Compared to C4, I can honestly say Unity kicks ass. Simply by doing a comparison of the titles released (not wishful potential) you can clearly see C4 doesn't stand a chance. In business decisions, little things like "titles using x engine" , are pretty important. Just an FYI.

If you had compared to one of the big ones you could make a case, even Shiva would stand a chance, but C4....

Anyway it's pretty simple:
- UDK wants royalties.
- UE3 wants 1/3 of the budget.
- CryEngine isn't as easy to work with and is expensive or needs royalties (same as Unreal basically)

- Unity is cheap, NO royalties, easy to work with.

When offered this alternative the other two lose, especially for Non-FPS projects. Also they don't have a team of veteran UnrealEngine coders on staff, so there isn't anything like team experience to build-on.

A turn-based 3/4 view game doesn't need the extreme real-time graphics features CryEngine provides anyway.
Whatever it needs and is not in the box, can be easily added on the other hand.

With Unity they can have a prototype working within a day.

 

[Davaris]

And nothing you say makes me think you are anything but a marketing plant since I've had almost exact same "discussions" with them before.

Yeah, he's laying it on pretty thick, right now.

 

[crojipjip]

Well I just sent my resume and a single unity3d- project to them. It was the one I developed hoping to make it into the Unity Asset Store. Turn based I promise you!

here if anyone is curious:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/95ewmm


Also I suppose you could see this as a very very gentle look into what could come of a UnityEngine turnbased game. 7-zip to extract.

 

[koyima]

It's a whole different ballgame to make an RPG than to make a casual game. If a game like Gothic is all you want in an RPG, fine. I don't think that Unity will fail to deliver. However if you think fallout 1+2, Jagged Alliance, Silent Storm, XCom, or typical turn based games it's another story. And if it's not something like that delivered I'm gonna rage and so will half the codex, all the real RPG fans.

What exactly do you think makes an RPG complex? RPG games are complex because there is so much content you need/want to create/handle. Their complexity stems from handling quest trees, randomly generated items and mainly balancing.

Coding stats, battle alogrithms, UIs and such is not really complex. The game design decisions tied to these systems are far more difficult to nail down.

Compared to other games, RPGs have simplified AI and slower pacing, which are both great advantages. An AI in an RPG doesn't traverse an island or deal with a physically based world (physics inluded).

CryEngine is a state of the art engine, not because it can handle realistic graphics, but because it can do that while handling high quality physics and AI that is pretty smart (enemies sneak up on you, find alternate roots, hide, work in teams - this in real-time).
To do this in real-time is an achievement, making quests and items isn't as hard as far as tech goes, it can be more time consuming though.

And nothing you say makes me think you are anything but a marketing plant since I've had almost exact same "discussions" with them before.

Yeah, he's laying it on pretty thick, right now.

Oh, are you a game developer? Did I offend your favorite engine? Do you think I want you to buy Unity? Yes, please buy it! Give them all the monies. They are waiting for all the Codex to buy their engine, since you are all obviously game developers, they sent me here "under cover" to lead you to the dark side of FREE game engines... Wait maybe I'm working for Fargo and I'm trying to sway the "Most Important Internet Forum" in his favor about his latest decision.

Compared to Drocon who is promoting the C4 engine and actually has the audacity to say that this "list:
http://www.terathon.com/c4engine/shots.php

compares to this list:
http://unity3d.com/gallery/made-with-unity/game-list

which isn't even complete....

Look you can think what you want (obviously), but a guy over at Unity forums pointed out the ridiculous claims made here by Drocon, I had some free time and proved him wrong. I don't expect to win teh internets, but such obvious lies like "Unity is not OOP", "Unity is unresponsive", "Unity only has scripting" etc are screaming for some swift "internet justice".

Just look at the lists, you don't even have to open each link in them. You can see from the thumbnails what crap is considered quality PC games by Drocon and what he calls casual shit for mobiles. If this is what we are comparing, then sorry but Drocon:

YOU LOSE!