Wasteland 2 - What to do if we raise more than $10k?

[DarkUnderlord]

We've raised the $5k we needed for our statue and "in-game location" (whatever Fargo means by that). We are close (very close) to meeting the $10k mark now and there's still 29 days to go. The intention is to keep the competition open for the full 29 days so that everyone has the chance to donate to the Codex Statue.

The question that arises is what are we going to do with any extra funds? Wasteland 2 is already well and truly funded having raised over $1.3M. The proposal that I've put forward based on suggestions is this:

- At $5,000 we go for the statue (achieved).

- Between $5,000 - $9,000 we'll see if we can get a statue and around 200 digital copies (we can give spares away as prizes).

- If we raise $10,000 we'll go for the shrine / party option (and still see if we can wrangle 200 or so digital copies). We'll find a local to send to the party.

- For $12,000 we'll upgrade the server and move to Amazon's EC2 Cloud (Only $10k goes to KickStarter). On the basis that they already have $1.3M with 29 days to go, so the project is well and truly funded.

- At $15,000 I'll go to the party ($3,000 for airfares and expenses) and YouTube + write about it appropriately (still meaning only $10k goes into KickStarter).

- Above $15,000 we'll split 80 / 20. So 20% held for Codexian expenses (future server costs - I am slightly worried people will be worn out by this and we'll have trouble raising money later in the year if we need to) and 80% is dumped as excess cash into Wasteland 2 to make sure we have enough digital copies for everyone.

Sound reasonable / Thoughts?

The point is to make it clear now so that people from now on know what they're donating for (and we'll either raise the money or not as a consequence). I've put forward the following reasons:

Yeah, to be honest I think spending $3k on a trip to the US is a bit of a waste too (I'd rather hold it for future server costs) but it was suggested by a couple of people and it looks like we'll hit the $10k "party option" easily. We now have the issue of who we're going to send (if we send anyone at all). Ideally, we need someone on staff who can and is willing to attend (and do all the interviewing / videoing as necessary) and they're going to have to pay airfares / transportation costs and accommodation (unless they're very close to inXile). Spending a few hundred on that, sure, fine, but when that starts costing a few thousand for a volunteer website... I mean, it's not like the staff here are loaded millionaires who are happy to throw a few extra thousand of their own to spend on the silly endeavours of the local forum-ites. So whomever goes is going to ask "How am I paying for this?". Hell, even SMA did a porn shoot to raise a couple of hundred bucks¹. If she has to spend $500 on fuel driving there or needs a taxi fare or something... My point is, I think it's only fair we pay some of the expenses giving we're sending them to the party on our behalf.

Plus if you don't like it, you can still donate to the KickStarter directly.

I agree with Metro re: In-game presence. Fargo has already said he's willing to negotiate something with us, so we'll work on that. I don't think throwing them an extra couple of bucks when they have $1.3M is necessarily going to make them want to build us a giant area with quests and everyone who has an account named as an NPC / whatever. Plus there is the "keeping it contextual within the game" issue - and not going down the Fallout 2 path of not only having silly references everywhere - or overdoing it with multiple references (like the 2 they made to Silence of the Lambs in FO2. I mean 2? Really?).

As for copies of the game, we have 153 who have donated (on average about $50 each). Around 10 have said they don't need a digital copy, most of which aren't even in the top 30. Others have put their $50 in saying they specifically didn't donate to KickStarter or in some cases, took their money out of KickStarter. So that's at least 140 copies if we want to give everyone something. The competition is open for another 28 days (and we'll keep our drive open for 28 days) so assuming we do get to $10k, that could potentially be another 50+ people fairly easily. I only think it's fair to give them something if we can. Whether that's precisely X copies with a few spare or just enough copies for everyone, I don't really care. The point is $5k is 333 copies @ $15 each and if no-one's going to the party (because no-one on staff is nearby and it costs too much) than we may as well stick with the statue option and go for something we'll actually use (every competition on the Codex for the next 10 years will be a free copy of Wasteland 2!).

I've made a poll here.


¹That seems both a strange thing to say and yet seems oddly correct for the Codex.

I've made the poll multiple-choice so people can vote accordingly. They break-down into groups as follows:

Party Expenses
- Any party attendance is at the attendee's own expense.
- All out on the Party option - but provide a MAX of $1,000 on travel expenses.
- All out on the Party option - but provide a MAX of $3,000 on travel expenses.
- Fuck the party option, just get more digital copies or 2 statues or something.

Server Options ($10k - $12k)
- No money raised should be spent on upgrading the Codex, this is all for Wasteland 2 damnit!
- The Codex needs a new server, so we should use the opportunity to raise $2k for it (at least $12k raised).
- Fuck the server, the party is far more important. Put any money raised above $10k towards that.

Beyond > $12k
- All monies above $12k should go to Wasteland 2 for the glory of Codexia!
- Any money above $12k should be split 80% for Wasteland 2 and 20% for the Codex.
- All funds raised above $12k should go directly to the Codex! Shit's getting slow mang.

Of course some of those depend on the actual amount raised too but this will give us a guide. Voting is public (in case some asses tick everything / conflicting options).

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Because this was about Wasteland 2 in the first place I voted on the first server option and the second beyond 12k option, but would have preferred that the latter choice have been a 50-50 split instead, i.e. everything into wasteland 2 until 12k is reached at which point the codex gets half since our fine members are makin' it rain after all.

Clarifying in case I get tragically banned for seeming contradictory by saying 'no server monies grr' and then choosing the 80-20 split.

Unless 'for the codex' means regular bandwidth costs irrespective of server upgrading?

 

[Metro]

I'd simplify it even more: cap the Wasteland donation at $10k. If that's reached then 'shut down' the Wasteland 2 fundraiser and just go back to the normal/general Codex server fund. If other notable Kickstarter projects arise then launch another fundraiser. Conflating things just doesn't make much sense. Remember, there will be other worthwhile projects out there (like the Banner Saga launching tomorrow). Wasteland 2 will already reach 1.5 million easily and anything above and beyond that is gravy to the developers. Giving more above and beyond the designated $10k tier just doesn't make much sense.

Also don't forget the physical rewards you get with the $10k tier donation: you can always just auction those off to raise Codex server money.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Yeah, if things get butthurty just make a poll about what to do about the overflow from 10k.

 

[Atomic]

Give 5000$ for the statue, and use the rest for collector's editon (for those who donate 100/115$ or more ) and digital copies for the others. If there are any money left use it for the server.

 

[mindx2]

I think it's silly to try and send someone to the party. What are we Gameinformer put a few drinks into us and we'll be shouting the praises of this game regardless of quality, just like any good game journalist today! Money needs to go toward the game but I don't mind %20 keeping our glorious/prestigious/cesspool of a site going. I'll repeat what I said in another thread:

However, I do agree that all the money would be better spent pledged toward the game itself. I know it would be cool to send "one of our own" but that's not the reason for our donations. Maybe negotiate for Brian to wear a Codex shirt and/or shout-out during part of the countdown party. Double Fine had a live stream as the clock reached zero and I'm sure InXile will as well.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Money for a server, and keep the rest for Chris Avellone's future Kickstarter.

 

[Brayko]

Am I the only one who wants to send DU to that party at all costs and have him film the fucker? He could even make a few jabs at CliffyB and Ray.

 

[Metro]

Am I the only one who wants to send DU to that party at all costs and have him film the fucker? He could even make a few jabs at CliffyB and Ray.

Let's look at it from this perspective: I think a few people are making too much ado about this party. Sure it's a cool event but, I think, more important is building a relationship with the developers who are bringing back a long-dead genre we all love. Giving $10,000 as a community opens the door for the Codex to evolve into something bigger/more reputable than the back alley forum rife with memes and tranny references it is widely thought to be. I'm sure if DU ever makes it to the U.S./California in the future then Brian would be more than happy to take a couple hours of his time to give him a tour of inXile and do a detailed Q&A session, etc.

Similarly if you raise enough for Banner Saga (not that I have a hard on for this game, just using another current example) you get yourself access to those developers, too. And so on, and so forth. Not that I'm pushing for Codex to become another IGN but it can develop into the premier 'mid-tier' website that covers the potential resurgence of the genre. There's something bigger happening here than just Wasteland 2 and I think Codex can play a large part in it as far as getting inside access, meaningful Q&A, and putting out that information. But if and only if it goes about it in a deliberate and mature fashion. Maybe it sounds like I'm trying to neuter the Codex but people should ask themselves what is more important: providing interesting content on the cRPG genre or multi-headed dick monsters and obscure member meme jokes?

You must choose, Codex... but choose wisely~

 

[Forest Dweller]

Can someone explain this party? The developers invited some of us to California to ask questions and spend time with them?

 

[Stabwound]

I would say make the biggest donation possible, and if it's over $10,000 it will not only be noteworthy but it will also make a mark and show what kind of people are REALLY serious about wanting an oldschool CRPG.

If this happens, get media attention on it (and surely Fargo will mention it somewhere) which will not only give the Codex positive media attention (which is also +++ for site owner) but reinforces the point about hardcore CRPG fans from a hardcore CRPG community wanting a hardcore CRPG game.

I think it's a chance to REALLY say something. Blowing the money on sending someone to the party would be a terrible waste and really lame to boot.

 

[villain of the story]

I agree with party idea, this is an opportunity for the codex to become a more relevant outfit and having someone at the party, which I'm sure will also be a press event, can add to our image. Especially if we can get a post-mortem exclusive on the development process and whatnot. Still, someone closer might be a better idea and I don't get the insistence on "from the staff". The party WILL happen, regardless of how insignificant it may be and whether we will be there or not and it's better if. we're there after all.

Just not in a wasteful way. I'd say $2000 max for the party.

That said, I wonder if we could seriously get MCA to attend the party with a Codex T-shirt. We would cover up to $1000-$2000. Think of the publicity.

 

[Brayko]

So OK, with the emergence of these Middle Games, the Codex can go up a notch and be a website that covers critical analysis on such games, and altogether loses interest in AAA titles which was the feeding force for the "nastiness" of this website.

I guess that's not a bad idea, but I really don't want the humor of this website to die either (which came mostly from trashing AAA games and developers).

Also, I truly think DU is the best choice, but I do know how expensive it is to travel to Australia to and fro. I say if we can't get him to do it at least get someone who would be a good representative of the website, retain some measure composure, yet not be afraid to make a few Codex quips at the developers and whatnot. /2cents

 

[DarkUnderlord]

If this happens, get media attention on it (and surely Fargo will mention it somewhere) which will not only give the Codex positive media attention (which is also +++ for site owner) but reinforces the point about hardcore CRPG fans from a hardcore CRPG community wanting a hardcore CRPG game.

Slight issue to be aware of with this: Without an upgrade, busier Codex = slower and crashing Codex. We have reached the limit of what we can do with the current box (in terms of stuffing RAM and CPU's into it) and according to XF, we've gone from 500 active users a day average, to 600 last month to 700 (pushing 800) this month.

This is what I posted a few days ago:

This is what that same graph looks like today:

The trend is upwards and there's no signs of that slowing. :Codexian Warming:

 

[villain of the story]

Voted:
$1000 max,
Fuck server; party more important,
Split $12K+ 80%-20% between WL2 and Codex

 

[villain of the story]

This is what I posted a few days ago:

This is what that same graph looks like today:

View attachment 52

The trend is upwards and there's no signs of that slowing. :Codexian Warming:

WE DIDN'T LISTEN!

That's scary. Codex is like a black hole.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Well I'm not sure exactly what this is all about but: the donation says it's specifically for Wasteland 2, so I'd say whatever excess funds you get should be applied to Wasteland 2 in some way.

If there are server problems make another donation drive for that.

 

[villain of the story]

It's all about the momentum. The one got going right now is good, it most likely won't be this good in a separate drive just for the server.

BTW, DU, what's this Amazon cloud thing you speak of? Wouldn't that put Codex at their mercy? They can shut servers for very trivial stuff. Racism, libel, discrimination, alleged support for piracy and whatnot.

 

[Metro]

At a certain point it's just a matter of semantics whether you have a 'separate' drive or not. If you're going to delineate a certain amount at which the funds will go to server upgrades you have to be clear and upfront about that, anyway; i.e., posting on the donation page, lest you mislead people into thinking they're still putting money towards Wasteland 2. Implicit in the suggestion that the Codex will get less money for a separate drive is the notion that some donors will be unaware the money is going to the server upgrade.

 

[hiver]

Im not sure codex can become mid-tier website or that the people running it now would even want or try to get to that level. If they actually do - excellent.
One thing to keep in mind here in that regard is that the more popular and funded with hard cash something gets, the more mainstream media steps in, followed by mass market "developers" or whatever the fuck those parasites are, in their primary urge of sucking profit from anywhere and anyone that has some cash.
If this thing grows i really hope it will stay beneath that level and so keep independence for a long time.


That being sad, i can offer an opinion on the spending the money.
I didnt give a lot through codex but something went into it.
I also rescinded all rewards i might get through codex since im getting mine from kickstarter. I gave 40 bucks here so that is good enough for 1 digital copy, 1 concept art digital book and music album by MM, also digital.
Although im not sure if all of it will be received im just saying again, codex can use it as they see fit in case its all received.

Basically i only gave through the codex so this competition goes through in a better way. Getting the money to Wasteland 2 being only primary reason.
Im only suggesting things about the statue or shrine because there is that opportunity, and i think Codex deserves it for actually getting not only 5,000, which i doubted it will collect at first, but going all the way to 10,000 (were close now with 29 days to go)

If it was clear from the start that money will be used to send someone at the party then it would be a different matter.
If it was clear it will be used for server upgrades - it would be a different matter.
>Seeing how it wasnt, i dont think it should be done.

Bad vibe all around and all that.
Seeing how there are other developers who could use some bling-bling, coke and hookers and codex needs a server upgrade - its clear we have more pressing matters to take care off then the party.
Going to some fancy party where there wont be any hookers, coke or other potentially interesting stuff doesnt come close.

In the end, i think you should close this action at 10,000 - if everyone thinks thats enough. Talk to Fargo and see if 10K is enough to get us everything we need.
If its only a statue thats fine. If we can get a shrine or a bunker - even better (which is a part of 10,000 reward anyway).
If we can throw something in to make it at least basically something more than just a thing to look at. (i doubt we can get NPCs at all but its not anything bad to just ask is it even a posibility - just so we know for sure)
Plus an artifact item - that would be cool. (plus the digital and collectors edition copies and other smaller stuff that is just the part of the kickstarter fund, of course.)

And then open another separate fund raising action for other stuff.

Second option is to continue collecting the money this way, piggybacking on the Wasteland2 hype, but with very, very, very clear message to members that the money after 10 or 12K or whatever, wont be going to Wasteland 2 ... which is the same as if you just went with option one, closed the Wasteland 2 funding and opened another, separate one. If youre not completely straight and try to muddy it up by saying youll divide money above some level by percentage... it might give you a bit more then a separate project... but it will also create some bad opinions.

Any way you guys choose ill count that my little sum is a part of the 10K.

Voted only for options:
Fuck the party option, just get more digital copies or 2 statues or something.
No money raised should be spent on upgrading the Codex, this is for Wasteland 2

- since there are no other options reflecting my stance and suggestions as written above.

 

[20 Eyes]

I don't think anyone would get upset about money past the initial 5k going towards server maintenance/whatever other expenses it costs to keep the Codex running. And if they do, fuck 'em. Stop posting here or take up the bill if it's a problem.

One small gripe is I think that asking for anymore than 50 copies would be bad form, considering the 10k reward only includes 50 copies. 200 copies seems a bit much to ask. If they sell the game for 50 bucks, 200 digital copies is another 10,000 dollars. Brian Fargo was cool enough to ensure us a statue if we raised the cash, it doesn't seem right to say "Here's our 5/10k, please give us the 5/10k reward AND another fuckton of free digital copies."

If there was an option to not request additional rewards beyond what was offered for the reward bracket, I'd vote that. A free digital copy to everyone that donates was never part of the deal, and everyone donated knowing that (assuming they read the donation page). Why should Fargo be asked to give us more? I know we're awesome and all, it just doesn't seem very monocle.

 

[Angelo85]

DU has some good points, the game is already fully funded and I have no doubt they will meet their third goal of 1.5 million without problems as well. So they don't need our money as bad as the Codex Server does.

Then again bros raised some legitimate concerns ITT as well (aside from the mandatory "the Jew is strong in this one" and BETRAYAL comments ). "Throwing away" a couple grand just to have some inside view videos, doing an interview via email will yield almost the same results for far less costs. Also some people that have donated for the specific cause of the Codex Presence in the game might not agree that their money is used for other purposes.

I guess there's no clear right and wrong in this one. It really just boils down to what each individual bro thinks about the subject at hand and the poll will decide the ultimate fate. Unless of course DU decides that he really wants that paid vacation bad and manipulates the results in favor of his personal gain, like every good dictator should :D

Boy, oh boy. Development on Wasteland 2 hasn't even started and yet it already offers better choices and consequences than all of Mass Effect 3 together. Yeah I said this line before but let's face it: plain and simple truth.

Can someone explain this party? The developers invited some of us to California to ask questions and spend time with them?

I'm glad you asked. You got it right! The Codex was asked to assemble and send a delegation of selected expert individuals to California, since inXile realized we are the most advanced species on the Internetz and as gods among mere mortals all things CRPG concerned (and life in general of course) we are to assist with important design decisions, help develop and approve the final version of Fargo's vision statement and give expert advise to the Staff. Might as well be asked to give a motivational speech or two about overcoming social basement dweller stigma.

And since we are such a nice bunch, on top of all of this we were also asked to spend some quality time with the Developers. They hope we can teach them about the meaning of, and how to be successful in life in general (but I personally suspect this part was just a ruse and in reality they are more concerned about the topic "woman", especially how to acquire and maintain one - what and how often do you feed it? Why is it bleeding every once in a while? What to say when a malfunction occurs and it suddenly starts crying and yells at you for no reason. You know, the usual stuff).

As you can see, we are their only hope!

You surely read the Thread about the requirements to be rated eligible for the trip, but to summarize in short what is most important in order to qualify as UCA - or uncertified competent advisor:

- Have not played Wasteland 1, to be able to give an unbiased opinion
- Have above 2,000 posts (most of them in GD) so you acquired sophisticated knowledge in various relevant topics
- Registered the account after 1994, so your opinion is not affected by the events that transpired around the time of The Great Decline™
- Played all, or at least most, of the holy trinity of emotionally engaging CRPGs 2.0. Namely Skyrim (how AI should behave), Mass Effect (how a story in games should be told and how to create meaningful Choices & Consequences) and Kingdoms of Amalur (finding the ultimate modern CRPG combat system that can easily be adapted for party and turnbased CRPGs)

Every prestigious bro that got selected as potential candidate for the trip will receive a PM shortly, but has to respond within a very short time frame (something about coordination stuff). Better stay awake and check your inbox/alerts every two minutes or so.
You don't want to miss out on the chance to attend the mandatory booze cruise that is included in the trip! The Flyer said there will be special appearances from the Cast of the Disney XXX Land! Minnie Tranny Mouse and Daisy "DD" Duck are already confirmed.
Also you might want to go ahead and quickly snap some photos in your birthday suit. Rumor has it there's a "you must be this tall to swallow" requirement in order to qualify for a private meeting with Goofy "Long John" Goof himself. Yeah he's a twisted fucker... literally.

Oh and also:

Previous reward + COME TO AN EXCLUSIVE PRIVATE PARTY hosted by Brian Fargo, Alan Pavlish and other key members of the Wasteland team (must be able to travel to Newport Beach, CA). Talk design, previous works or anything else you’d like to discuss. Also, a shrine in Wasteland 2 will be erected in your honor. You’ll receive 50 copies of the game to do what you want and our deep appreciation. You'll also receive a medal and AN EXPLODED BLOOD SAUSAGE Wasteland limited signed and numbered collectible figurine.

 

[hiver]

:almost snorts out coffee: Angelo dammit...

Slight issue to be aware of with this: Without an upgrade, busier Codex = slower and crashing Codex. We have reached the limit of what we can do with the current box (in terms of stuffing RAM and CPU's into it) and according to XF, we've gone from 500 active users a day average, to 600 last month to 700 (pushing 800) this month.


The trend is upwards and there's no signs of that slowing. :Codexian Warming:

Easy. Bann more users.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Shouldn't the title say "What to do if we raise more than $10k?" I am confused.

 

[hiver]

Also, pay attention to the fact that everyone is voting. Especially trolls who didnt give a fucking cent for any of this.

-edit-

"in-game location" (whatever Fargo means by that).

Looking at NMA thread about their bar idea it seems its just a name on a location the devs make in the game.
That comes with 1,000 bucks and thats what NMA is collecting. They will only get a name on one of the bars (+plus one NPC name that BN was given for his work). All other NPCs in the bar and the content attached to them will be made by inXile devs.

Just pointing this detail out. And BN knows this more directly so we can look at it as a given.