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Wasteland Wasteland 3 - Brian Fargo does Colorado

Discussion in 'inXile Entertainment' started by Infinitron, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
    Joined:
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    Yep, that's it. My bad jackofshadows.
     
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  2. jackofshadows Scholar

    jackofshadows
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    Finished completionist SJ run. First off, it was really fun, at least first ~half of the game. It would be more fun if it wasn't too easy; I mean, after you maxed out primary stats and skills (~14-15 lvl) you just shoot stuff and it dies. Barely any tactics involved if you start first (which is possible 99% of the time). If you start second in a tough fight - at least half of your squad dies which brings us to a VERY questionable mechanic: revive. It just not making any sense and fucks with immersion. If they couldn't deliver perma-death on release they should've at least went with nuXCOM root: you "stabilize" teammate in order to prevent getting incapacitated status but he remain down for the rest of the fight.

    Sneak mechanic is also begging for improvements or even cutting out: sneak upon enemies for better position - nice, disable few turrets beforehand - also cool but wiping out half of enemy squad with a rocket launcher is too much or even one shot boss by sniper because you're also getting the first turn which like I said, matter a lot, obviously. Still, combat is fun while having close resemblance with nuXCOM/D:OS where devs clearly took some inspiration but that's fine because the result feels much better than it was in WL2.

    They've also done some dumbling down: for some reason no inherited global map mechanic: no fuel, no supplies, nothing. You can ride around as long as you want provided you have skills for handling random encouters. By the way, the ability to run over enemies is awesome, especially vs scar collectors which are tend to move up in groups. And more importantly: items have no weight. Convinient, right? No, it's just dumb. I get that now you have a truck basically all the time but they were supposed to make so it have a huge trunk to put junk into. Managing inventory might be tedious but it must present in a game like this. As a result you don't have to think when looting even for a second: just click on "loot all" (wonder why they didn't make a hotkey for that) and sort it out later (good luck with that though).

    Back to progression system: it's fucked up. The devs either have to cut skill points to 2 per level instead of 3 or cut XP income somehow. Maybe it has something with difficulty (more enemies? that'd mean more XP?) but after 2/3 of the game I'd scrached my head every time I leveled up: I had all the skills I wanted and I didn't even use "mule rangers" - had the idea too but there wasn't need in that. I mean, look at this:
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]Not sure it was even properly min-maxed - maybe I'd invested extra skill into leadership instead of using utility item
    The idea that you have bunch of specialists is nice, they just have to tune the execution.

    Important side note: FUCK ANIMALS. I mean, as someone already said ITT: stay away from animal whispering. Animals are quite useful, especially with doubling their bonuses perk and possibility to abuse the shit out of the last perk (shoot your own pets to get sweet buff). But they're annoying af: always rushing forward making kiting impossible, their animations are SO SLOW that even having only two pets (and two robots which is a similiar story) I'd alt-tabed during their turn just like during infamous loading screens and as I said regarding revive - they're fuck with immersion too. The picture of a fucking rabbit finishing off huge vehicle in a jump attack is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen lately and I've played Larian games.

    The story and the writing: I was pleasantly suprized. Don't get me wrong: the story is cliche af, some things doesn't make sense in retrospect and the writing has bunch of cringe/retarded stuff but overall that's fine. It's still well-edited, doesn't drag on and provide some entertaiment at the very least.

    Soundtrack is nice but kinda... uneven, also quite often it is simply missing: silent dialogues and even locations. That'll be fixed I guess like many many other stuff: the game in a junky state right now.

    Conclusion: it's a fine casual game for couch-gaming with a box of beer nearby. Wonder how co-op is implemented - probably it's even better that way (at least after some patches). For RPG-enthusiast it's a quite meh game. Better than WL2 almost in every way though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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  3. vmar Savant

    vmar
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    Completely agree on the progression, I'd guess I'm about 60-70% through the game and I reached a point a few hours ago where level ups aren't exciting anymore, I have everything I want/need, and have every skill pretty much covered without using mules. I've been just putting points in random shit that I probably won't ever use.

    I enjoy the combat but it definitely becomes way too easy. If you get to alpha strike you wipe half the enemy group in one turn, but if enemies attack first they 1 or 2 shot a couple of your rangers so then you end up playing a game of reviving and healing your downed rangers, then someone else gets 1 shot the next turn, repeat until combat ends, and it just feels silly. On the other hand you can trivialize any encounter with turrets, sawpups, decoys, etc.

    I still like this game a lot despite some minor complaints. Only had a couple minor bugs, and 2 crashes when interacting with stuff on the world map.

    edit: game crashed on startup after the latest hotfix. very nice
     
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  4. jackofshadows Scholar

    jackofshadows
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    Technically there's always several useful options for extra skills since some of them are provide passive bonuses: explosion adds explosion resistance, mechanic gives %dmg to synths/robots/vehicles, leadership bonuses are stack so having multiple leaders is fine, some skills might be aquired just for particular perks; for instance first aid 1 lvl perk useful for any ranger if anyone gets blown down, sniper rifles for mark etc etc

    But it all doesn't matter because the game is just too easy for squezing and min maxing shit like that.
     
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  5. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    I think the crits are way too OP, both for you and mobs. If I actually made a 4 sniper team and there was enough ammo I could've breezed this game on SJ.
     
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  6. jackofshadows Scholar

    jackofshadows
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    There's more than enough ammo for that in stores but obviously you'd have a very rough early game. Also getting top-tier rifle for everyone would be random-depended. But still I think it's viable: 4 glass-canon death with snipers, why the hell not.

    Crits might be not too OP by themselves (although multiplier could be much lower) but there's some extra multipliers with precision strikes: head usually provide 35% extra and chance for extra 175%, also there's a dedicated perk... My record was 22.5k I beleive (during a fight, not from stealth), that's ridiculous. The last boss had
    Show Spoiler
    16.2k
    for comparison. They could've make it not working together somehow.
     
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  7. Pope Amole II Prestigious Gentleman Nerd Commando Game Studios Developer

    Pope Amole II
    Joined:
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    I think the crit math is broken somehow, bug-wise. I mean, even if we have ~300 average rifle with 4.0 multiplier, there's no way it should be able to do so much damage. Even if it had two additional layers of x2 amplification (which it should not as there are no bonuses this big in the game), it's still far from being enough from reaching those numbers.
     
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  8. Takamori Educated

    Takamori
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2020
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    Show Spoiler
    Hmm holy shit actually managed to align all options and stage a coup and no one had to die in my game. (Besides Vic being a massive le edgy faggot, deserved the bullet)

    I will trust Brian Fargo lies
     
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  9. jackofshadows Scholar

    jackofshadows
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    I guess thouse are based on "mega-crits" which has God knows what (~13-14?) multiplier. It's a shame that the game has no logs whatsoever (one more point to casualisation). UI looks way better than in WL2 but no logs and to get enemy info/status effect you have to do extra click on some button many players are even unaware of.
     
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  10. Urthor Liturgist Patron

    Urthor
    Joined:
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    1,630
    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Sniper crits are half as worthwhile as brawler 1ap crits I tend to find. Maybe it's just loot progression though because good sniper rifles that aren't for blasting robots don't seem to turn up and it's been very underpowered throughout.

    But yes you can basically stack crit chance and win.
     
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  11. Takamori Educated

    Takamori
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    Crit for Snipers is a luxury stat in late game, first you build raw damage + Sneaky shit to always guarantee to remove someone in the encounter with one shot. Then you build int + crit in your weapon underbarrel for late game where enemies have +4k HP so you can manage to take down the champions before the encounter starts.
     
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  12. Jrpgfan Savant

    Jrpgfan
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    Lost my cat and my parrot in a single fight. I only noticed it several moments later after I had already saved the game twice and was too lazy to reload all the way back.

    :dead::negative:
     
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  13. Dodo1610 Magister

    Dodo1610
    Joined:
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    Location:
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    I lost the Provost in a random encounter, RIP trusty Latin friend.

    Siding with Angela Deth is fun as hell, feels like a real revolution the streets are drenched in blood everybody is angry that you tear all of this down. Even your refugees in your barracks get slaughtered just to remind you that you caused all of this.
    Show Spoiler
    But it's all worth it, once the Patriarch is gone his nation collapses so they now have democracy in their smoking ruin. Best part is that the bourgeoisie helped me for some reason. Vive la Revolution mes amis, I guess

    :greatjob:
     
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  14. Cnaiur Savant

    Cnaiur
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    Thought about this for a second, but I would never be able to make the necessary communist mouse clicks to make it happen.
     
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  15. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    This should be spoilered bruh.

    That said it does sound like fun. I was debating who to side with but now I'm definitely crashing the evil patriarchal capitalist system and establishing people' democracy in smoking ruins. Recreating what will probably happen in RL America sooner or later will be entertaining.
     
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  16. Dodo1610 Magister

    Dodo1610
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    Show Spoiler
    The best part is that all companions except Scotchmo (my spirit animal) and the girl you get in Aspen leave you so I had to kill all of the fascist in the city with a party of 5 Jodie even gets executed by comrade Deth for being a counter-revolutionary.
     
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  17. razvedchiki Liturgist

    razvedchiki
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    Location:
    on the back of a T34.
    the same anglela from wasteland 1/2?
     
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  18. Nryn Arbiter Patron

    Nryn
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2013
    Messages:
    253
    Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Beat the game with rangers around levels 27-28, and overall enjoyed my time with it. Sided with Buchanan, and got a good ending. Thoughts on what I liked and didn't like about the game:

    Things I liked:

    1. Constant C&C Everywhere: Most if not all quests offer multiple ways of resolving them, including outright murder of quest-related npcs in cold blood and having the game react appropriately. All major characters can be agreed with, antagonised or held at arm's bay with neutral responses, subsequently affecting faction reputation and future interactions with them. Outside of conversations, each area is littered with exploration skill checks that can bypass entire sections of levels, or help the party approach a challenging fight from a different direction, catching enemies off guard. At least 1 area in the game changes dramatically based on the player's choice of companions to bring along.

    2. Agenda-Free Writing: WL3 shows admirable restraint in not peddling any sort of blatant political message. To the game's credit, I didn't come across the writers including some out of place social issue that jars one's suspension of disbelief. Also, unlike many modern games, there's no heavy handed attempt to police how the player interacts with the characters and the events presented in WL3's fucked up world. The game allows the player to freely associate with and aid slavers, cannibals, etc., and while there are consequences both positive and negative to doing so, the game is never judgemental about the player's choices. As a result, WL3 is one of the rare RPGs that's able to provide a satisfying evil playthrough.

    3. Satisfying Character Development: Attributes, skills and perks are the 3 building blocks to WL3's character development, and I liked WL3's approach to all 3.

    I found all 7 attributes to be useful depending on the equipped weapon, but I particularly appreciated skill points per level being decoupled from the Intelligence attribute. In other similar RPGs, Intelligence always felt mandatory in order to not feel crippled when it came to skill points, but WL3's approach of standardising skill points to a specific number per level that can be boosted through a Quirk that has a negative side effect is the best approach I've seen so far. Also rewarding an attribute point every level up ensures the character development never plateaus.

    After recently playing through Realms of Arkania 1, I appreciated how there is no wasted skill in WL3; every single skill in the game has at least a few skill checks somewhere. While certain skills are far more frequent and mandatory than others, I was happy with the balance the game reaches. The only issue with the skills implementation is that by level 20, a party of specialists with 3 skills each will have almost all relevant skills at 9 or 10 with the aid of skill books.

    Similar to Underrail's approach, WL3's perk design significantly changes underlying combat mechanics which in turn influence character building. For instance, the brawling perk that reduces the brawler's attacks to 1 AP makes it beneficial to boost Charisma, so that the brawler will be able chain stun enemies in an AOE multiple times per round. Without this perk, I would never have given the Charisma attribute a second thought for a Brawler. Also, the ability to mix and match perks from two very different skills can lead to some fun and broken combinations. That said, I wish the game had perks associated for all available skills; presently, skills such as lockpicking, hard ass and kiss ass have no associated perks, and a character who picks a combination of these skills will have a surfeit of perks with nothing to spend them on.

    4. All Combat Playstyles Perform Well: Playing a party with 6 specialists that each focused on different combat styles, I was pleasantly surprised to not find any dead weight. It's a far cry from Wasteland 2 where it was a no-brainer to run a party with multiple Assault Rifles, ammo permitting. I was also impressed with how powerful Mechanics was in turning around seemingly lost fights. That said, Shotguns over performed relative to the other weapons over the course of my playthrough, thanks mostly to critting for a few thousand damage in a cone.

    5. No RNG Stat Checks: Last but not least, WL3 moving away from WL2's rng-driven checks is probably the single biggest positive change, especially considering the torturous loading times that would have otherwise accompanied save scumming skill checks.

    Things I didn't like:

    1. Team-based Initiative: Just like in the Expeditions games, WL3's team-based initiative acts to the game's detriment when it comes to effective combat tactics. Almost all the fights in the game favour the side that goes first in combat. If the AI goes first, it leads to multiple downed rangers irrespective of their armour and defensive stats, and the rest of the fight is spent reviving downed rangers. If the player goes first, most encounters are trivialised due to the most dangerous enemies being taken out instantly without a chance to put up a fight. As a result, 99% of my fights in the game played out similarly due to the initiative system: open with a sneak attack from a sniper/rocket launcher or choose the [attack] option in dialogue to prevent enemies from acting first. I find team-based initiative to work best in X-COM and its clones because the player is literally kept in the dark about the type, number and positioning of enemies. In crpgs with fixed encounter design where the player can clearly see all the participants joining the fight, I prefer individual initiative since it allows for combat tactics that aren't just mass alpha strikes on turn 1, and allows both the player and the AI to react better to the fight going pear-shaped. I unfortunately suspect that the change from WL2's individual initiative to WL3's team-based one was influenced in part by the addition of the co-op mode that typically plays better with team initiative.

    2. Horrendous Loading Times: WL3 subjects the player to HDD-like load times even on an SSD. Of all the Unity-based games I've played, WL3 holds the ignominious crown of having the worst loading times by far, with "quickloads" frequently taking upwards of a minute in mid to late game areas. My patience got so ragged watching that loading bar making such infinitesimal progress during the second half of the game that I couldn't even bring myself to reload earlier saves and explore all the different C&C options the game provides.

    3. Experience Reward Mechanics: WL3 overwhelmingly rewards combat over non combat resolutions when it comes to raw experience allocated to the team. A level 10 skill check to avoid a fight gives less than 200 experience to the ranger who passes said check. On the other hand, the same fight will probably net the entire team upwards of 200 experience each. Experience and levels never stop mattering because of the accompanying extra attribute points. On a similar note, I wish experience for passing a skill check was divided and allocated equally (before exp bonuses) to all party members to avoid situations where a 1 Charisma ranger with no additional experience bonus is 1000s of exp ahead of the rest of the team due to the frequency of lockpicking and mechanics skill use opportunities.

    4. Item Progression Inexplicably Stops: I found the game to stagnate when it came to the final tier of weapon and armour progression. Weapons requiring more than level 7 or 8 skills to use without penalties are incredibly rare compared to the the abundance of lower level weapons. For instance, it is particularly bad with brawling weapons since I never found a brawling weapon that required more than 8 brawling to use, and the highest non-energy brawling weapon I saw was a level 7, obtainable early game. Ideally, every weapon category should have had obtainable weapons that go up to level 10, in addition to the unique ones that are already present (it would also help if the highest level heavy machine gun unique wasn't bugged to have 0 ammo of its kind available in game). Speaking of armour, while heavy armour is well represented, light armour stops progressing with the spectrum assault armour, which is obtainable well before the end game. WL3's bizarre end to its item progression is the one aspect of the game that is absolutely begging for a director's cut treatment or a content patch that addresses the issue.

    5. Missing UI Elements: The inventory needed more categories, especially a utility tab to keep track of all the cyborg and non-cyborg utilities one finds. Also the lack of a combat log was sorely felt after witnessing my sniper miss a disproportionate number of times despite a 95% hit chance indicator.

    Despite my issues with the game, I found it to be worth a playthrough owing mostly to its C&C and party building options. It's just a pity that the initiative system makes the combat and encounter design so mindless.
     
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  19. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    ^Best writeup so far, would second almost everything.

    Except a tiny correction to the point about the lack of blatant agenda-based writing. The stuff with the Gippers was not just blatant, it was beyond blatant. But as I said, not currentyear woke but old-guard libtard, and even that is appreciated by this point.

    Also one thing I don't like is how you can't respec and your RPCs have retarded stat distribution more often than not.
     
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  20. ekrolo2 Educated

    ekrolo2
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2019
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    68
    Am I the only one who finds it weird there are no portraits during dialogue?
     
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  21. Bester ⚰️☠️⚱️ Patron Vatnik

    Bester
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    Is there a rest mechanic, or do I have to use medic packs all the time?
     
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  22. Tacgnol Shitlord Patron

    Tacgnol
    Joined:
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    The latter, the closest to a rest mechanic is doctor services. Make sure you have a trained first aider.
     
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  23. Darkwind Educated

    Darkwind
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    94
    Clearly you are not a student of history. There is historical precedent for "the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodents you have ever set eyes on. He'll do you up a treat mate. He's got huge, sharp-- eh-- he can leap about-- look at the bones!"

    Video evidence:
     
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  24. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    There's a rest mechanic in the overworld, if you find and use the "tents" random event.
     
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  25. user Learned

    user
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2019
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    482
    Omg guys this sequel is actually good.
     
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