We need to start our own thing (Codexjam 2021 recruitment)

[Krice]

RPG Maker looks fun in an ironic way, but it's on Steam. Ech.

 

[LudensCogitet]

Are RPG engines actually good for creating a new game? Has anyone done that with any kind of success?

My interest in these tools is not as a means of making some large scale project intended for public consumption. The group we've started has gravitated toward some kind of game jam to get ideas flowing, try out working with each other, and get a sense of what people can do. I'm of the opinion that no reasonable length game jam can involve writing an RPG engine from scratch, so a tool like the Aurora toolset or FRUA seem like good options for rapidly prototyping certain kinds of ideas, practicing quest / encounter design, etc.

Ideally, I think, different teams in the jam would use different tools, since they have different capacities and limitations.

 

[Reinhardt]

So when is the codex sex scene writing jam?

 

[LudensCogitet]

BING XI LAO and I are beginning a project, a small Neverwinter Nights 1 module, and this is a general call for a few other interested people to join us.

Initial thoughts on project scope are:
1. Action oriented, rather than plot or dialogue heavy, though not devoid of NPC interaction and C&C.
2. Taking place inside a single "Dungeon" location, a la Eye of the Beholder but much smaller.
3. Designed around 7th-ish level characters to allow for some diverse approaches without overwhelming us with balance issues.

In terms of timeframe, we are shooting for relaxed (to allow for other obligations) but not so loose that we never finish. I'm tentatively thinking 1 or 2 months.

I am considering options for team chat, weekly audio / (optional) video calls, task management, and version control.

Current roles filled:
LudensCogitet (me):
* Project management
* Scripting
* Level building / level design
* Encounter design

BING XI LAO:
* Writing
* Level building / level design
* Encounter design

You'll notice a great deal of overlap in the above roles, and with a tool like the Aurora toolset that is to be expected. I imagine we'll end up splitting work along the lines of dungeon levels / maps, and that individuals will be responsible for the bulk of the content in each.

I think we could comfortably include 1 or 2 more people in the group working on this project. Any larger and scope would have to grow to accommodate team size and management would become an issue.

If there are more people than that interested though, I strongly encourage the formation of other teams to work on other modules!

We are not experts here, both BING XI LAO and I are learning the tools, so experienced and inexperienced are welcome.

 

[Null Null]

FWIW, advantages of FRUA:

Reasonably easy to learn
Produces goldbox games (people around here seem to like them)
Large supply of existing games to learn from
Large supply of existing assets indexed on Corhub (www.corhub.com)
With some skill, can be hacked

Disadvantages:
Doesn't produce a standalone executable
Made in 1992 (320x200 resolution, 88x88 pics in corner, archaic AI)
1st edition AD&D rules (low nonhuman level caps)
Hacking requires learning to use UASHELL, which is somewhat complicated

 

[d1nolore]

BING XI LAO and I are beginning a project, a small Neverwinter Nights 1 module, and this is a general call for a few other interested people to join us.

Initial thoughts on project scope are:
1. Action oriented, rather than plot or dialogue heavy, though not devoid of NPC interaction and C&C.
2. Taking place inside a single "Dungeon" location, a la Eye of the Beholder but much smaller.
3. Designed around 7th-ish level characters to allow for some diverse approaches without overwhelming us with balance issues.

In terms of timeframe, we are shooting for relaxed (to allow for other obligations) but not so loose that we never finish. I'm tentatively thinking 1 or 2 months.

I am considering options for team chat, weekly audio / (optional) video calls, task management, and version control.

Current roles filled:
LudensCogitet (me):
* Project management
* Scripting
* Level building / level design
* Encounter design

BING XI LAO:
* Writing
* Level building / level design
* Encounter design

You'll notice a great deal of overlap in the above roles, and with a tool like the Aurora toolset that is to be expected. I imagine we'll end up splitting work along the lines of dungeon levels / maps, and that individuals will be responsible for the bulk of the content in each.

I think we could comfortably include 1 or 2 more people in the group working on this project. Any larger and scope would have to grow to accommodate team size and management would become an issue.

If there are more people than that interested though, I strongly encourage the formation of other teams to work on other modules!

We are not experts here, both BING XI LAO and I are learning the tools, so experienced and inexperienced are welcome.

I can help with scripting and other stuff that might be needed. There’s other minor stuff you can get people to help with such as custom items/npcs/dialogue, that really anyone can do and send as an .erf Creating item sets and npcs can take longer than you think unless you plan to use the default stuff. NWN toolset is very accessible.

 

[Tavernking]

RPG codex jam cannot be made in RPG maker please, JRPG lovers are meant to be second class citizens here

 

[d1nolore]

Why don’t we just do one for NWN mods first?

 

[Konjad]

BING XI LAO and I are beginning a project, a small Neverwinter Nights 1 module, and this is a general call for a few other interested people to join us.

I have professional experience in QA, including years of such in gaming industry, and I worked even for large companies which I dare not say (some NDA, and some I don't just want random 'dexers to find my name in credits and stalk me). If you are serious and after this module want to start developing actual games, not mods (just as long as it's gonna be stand-alone and can sell it), start a small indie studio, I'll be happy to join and ensure your stuff has as few bugs as possible. I'll manage my own work (writing tests and executing them, then writing you reports).

That said, I'm not interested in the modding scene, I'd like to join you once you start using some game engine (even shit one) to develop. But I can join this first NWN module just so we can actually learn to work together.

Of course to start QA you already have to have some alpha version. Moreover, in modules there probably won't be that much to test, especially since it's a small project, unlike real stand-alone projects.

EDIT:
I also speak 3 languages if it's any useful.

EDIT2:
Or should I've tagged Bloodeyes ? I'm not gonna read entire topic what happened here.

 

[Blowhard]

I don't know if original music is necessary but I'd be interested in making some.

 

[Gahbreeil]

Can you tell me anything about the video game you are trying to make or is it impossible?

 

[Darth Canoli]

I have professional experience in QA, including years of such in gaming industry, and I worked even for large companies which I dare not say (some NDA, and some I don't just want random 'dexers to find my name in credits and stalk me).

You just made a list ( launched a thread a couple of days ago) with one great game and a lot of shit-tier games which are not RPG, i'm guessing you didn't work on Prelude but probably on some (most?) of the other ones...

Now, if someone wants to waste his time stalking you, that's a first clue...

You're welcome.

 

[Konjad]

I have professional experience in QA, including years of such in gaming industry, and I worked even for large companies which I dare not say (some NDA, and some I don't just want random 'dexers to find my name in credits and stalk me).

You just made a list ( launched a thread a couple of days ago) with one great game and a lot of shit-tier games which are not RPG, i'm guessing you didn't work on Prelude but probably on some (most?) of the other ones...

Now, if someone wants to waste his time stalking you, that's a first clue...

You're welcome.

I didn't work on any of them.

I disagree with your opinion about them too, but eh.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Although, i guess if you worked on each of them, you could have done the fugly 3D environment of Prelude, that's the one thing that sucks...

Here's a link to the thread i mentioned earlier.

For posterity:

Spoiler

Basically, here I list RPGs and somewhat-erpeegyy-like games many of you miss out because you're too dumb to get out of your comfort zone to check something that isn't Skyrim or a turn based tactical game called RPG. Feel free to add more to the list that you believe most 'dexers are too retarded to check out.

I'm not listing anything popular (even if I think it's good) because you probably already have good ideas what these games are. Here are some games that you probably glanced over and moved on, deciding it's not worth checking out at all, but you were wrong.

Of course, not all dexers are this retarded, but some are, and some are - to my disgust - of limited time as they have kids and shit, so they don't check out much themselves.


Prelude to Darkness
Basically the only game akin to Arcanum and Fallout that is equal to them, I believe it needs no further introduction. We host it on our forums too:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/forums/prelude-to-darkness.12/
It's free to play, and if you didn't play it you should fuck off from this place already.

My quickie: https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10384


Pathologic

My quickie: https://rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8610


The Void

My quickie: https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10393


嗜血印

My Steam review:

Spoiler

Surprisingly decent action RPG, very stable and fun even in the current Early Access state (doesn't crash nor has a single major technical issue - something most releases lack nowadays!).

The gameplay is pure fun, combat is smooth and enjoyable. Different melee weapon styles to choose from and some additional skills/spells assisting in fights. No distance weapons, but skills are mostly useful and unlocking weapon combos make fights more interesting, while the game keeps ramping up the difficulty, forcing the player to use them and becomes more and more challenging, but doesn't overdo it and does not become punishing. There are multiple difficulty levels to choose as well.

On a downside, 嗜血印 is very linear and there is no skill-tree. You just get gems that unlock particular skills, and get everything in the end. Same with raising weapon skills. You can max them all in one playthrough.

Story is derp, just a pretext for a slasher. However, at this time English translation is far from finished. Currently, it's a mix of English and Chinese. If you want to play in Chinese know that they used a hand-written-like font, which is not as legible for non-natives. That said, it's not a game where you need to read much or understand the story, might as well skip all cutscenes and enjoy the gameplay.

The campaign mode is not yet finished (now it's about 10 hours long), but there are also even more enjoyable game modes to amuse oneself afterwards, including three multiplayer cooperative modes.

Buying this game on a 50%+ sale is not a dilemma if you are in a mood for a decent slasher. 嗜血印 can't compare with the best, but it's entertaining nonetheless. Definitely recommended.

Precursors

My Steam review:

Spoiler

It's a very good mix of RPG and FPS, with lots of exploration.

It has one of the most open worlds ever, or actually, multiple worlds, because you can travel between them in space, something I've never seen before (kind of like X series mixed with a role-playing game). I must say, that the game is a bit flawed - requires installation of unofficial Wesp's patch (otherwise enjoy watching movies in bolshevik), the space part is average at best and a bit dull (fortunately, it can be rushed through), and the writing is just okay (with mispellings too), but despite these flaws the game is a blast to play for those who love open-world role-playing games - it has many different areas. You can explore six planets in total, fortunately there are enough land vehicles (or mountable animals) so you don't have to walk vast territories. You can sink in the multiplicity of sub-quests, the game always gives you many things to do at the same time, and the gameplay itself is quite fun too - the combat system is basically a first-person shooter that is a mix of arcade and realism - the action is very fast, but both you and your enemies die very quickly. The faction system and choices whom to help will also add to the role-playing element. I'd recommend it for all those who enjoy open-world games, both role-playing ones, and shooters. Just apply the unofficial patch.

Vendetta - Curse of Raven's Cry

My Steam review:

Spoiler

This is honestly the best pirate RPG I've ever played. It has low Steam ratings because of a really botched release version, but as of late 2020 all bugs seem to have been squashed. Although I haven't finished the game yet, after hours of play I did not encounter a single issue with the game at all, not even a minor bug, so it seems all is fine by now.

The atmosphere of the game is superb. It feels quite grim and violent, which fits the pirate theme perfectly. It's more akin to Black Sails TV series than any other pirate game I ever played. Music is very pleasant, from calm ambient sounds and quiet theme to tavern sordid songs sung and played by NPCs, it all fits perfectly. Visuals are just as good, the game is fairly gloomy, nonetheless, there are not only dark jungles or dirty docks, but also beautiful beaches and wealthier town parts which look authentic and pleasant.

The main storyline might not be the most interesting one with its theme of vengeance, but it is properly delivered and side quests can be quite interesting. Moreover, the main character, who is a pirate, acts like one. A deranged man with no morals and you get to play the bad guy, which is rare even in pirate games - which usually while allowing you piracy, have storylines about saving someone or the world or you always act like the nice guy helping others and just receiving payment as a reward, or becoming a merchant. In Vendetta it's the complete opposite. I especially appreciate the complete lack of any political correctness and realistic portrayal of the times. Lots of swearing from pirates, as well as "dirty talk", no "poor and defensless native people" just trying to stay alive against evil colonizers like in Risens. Here they are portrayed in a more authentic way of the brutal world and in their interactions with outsiders. They are depicted as uncivilized and often as immoral as invaders, if not more. Women are clearly presented in the game more to be either wives or prostitutes, there's only one female captain. Piracy is more profitable than trade as well. While this all might sound a little harsh and degrading, it is a realistic depiction of the times and places.

Combat is outstanding. Both land fights and sea battles are enjoyable and challenging. A lot of people in Steam reviews complain about the combat - I suspect these people don't enjoy the challenge. When you fight in melee you need to time your attacks correctly and block properly. Mashing LMB will get you killed quickly. Fights require patience, not throwing yourself at the enemy. When fighting multiple enemies, they will not allow you to duel them in succession, but instead stab you in the back as soon as they can. To win unfair fights you're often going to need some dirty tricks, including kicking, using second weapon that is your hook, or using pistols - and you can carry up to three of them loaded simultaneously. There are skills improving your possibilities in combat, but more important are the player's skills.

Sea battles are also well made, but more similar to other pirate games. You press a button to give command to shoot from left, right or front, and have option to use three different kinds of ammunition. Boarding is also possible, although you don't take a part in it directly, but just give orders. There are different ships to use in the game and each of them can be upgraded so as to make it better in some ways, such as you can sacrifice some space for cargo to load more cannons on the ship. My only complaint is that you can only have one ship. There is no way to hire another captain and create a fleet, which is a shame because I'd really like to make a fleet and besiege a town, but I guess that was beyond developers' time or capabilities.

There are also multiple factions to join, but you don't need to join anyone and are able to remain a lone wolf throughout the game, however, you can get more quests if you join one of them, i.e. the French. In addition, you never have too much money in Raven's Cry, as often is the case in other RPGs. There are always multiple things to spend money on, and ships can be very expensive.

Recapitulating, this is a properly done Role-Playing as well as pirate game with fantastic land and sea combat, marvelous realism and authenticity of the world and decent enough story. All activities in this game give plenty of entertainment, whether it is combat, dialogues, exploration or piracy. There are no weak or poorly made parts of the game, which is extremely rare in pirate games. Bugs seem to have been fixed too. Overall, it's a really great game worth time and money. Unquestionably the best game from Reality Pump. If you enjoy RPGs, then I strongly recommend playing Vendetta as it's an engrossing and gratifying experience.

Venetica
https://store.steampowered.com/app/338140/Venetica__Gold_Edition/

My Steam review:

Spoiler

Venetica is a game I expected to be average at best. Moreover, the first three hours are terrible, you start as a village girl and just follow the corridor, whack some professional assassins, listen to uninteresting dialogues and whack more poor assassins. I was at the point of abandoning the game, because the sole looking at ass and arms of cute Scarlett was not enough to keep me interested.

I just decided to force myself to play it until I get to the Venetica city as the village at the beginning is basically a training. And once I got to the city, wow, what a sudden turnaround.

In the city the game became good out of the blue. Writing wasn't deep but Scarlett got a sense of humour and quests were aplenty and often no more about killing assassins or killing at all. Boring hack'n slash transformed into a role-playing game and the place wasn't so much of a corridor anymore (albeit still somewhat was as the parts of the Venetica open up along with the storyline). The story is bad and some dialogues are cringeworthy, but many of them are decent and usually the writing is okay. Unfortunately, many of dialogue choices are not only fake as to leading to the same outcome but worse - quite a lot of them lead to once short answer until you choose the "correct" one. Kid doesn't want to tell you something? Intimidating him to cut off all his fingers? Trying to be nice to him? Forget it, you can do these all you want, but until you choose "here, have some sweets" option you are getting nowhere...

In spite of the above, the quests make up for it, and so is the setting. Dialogues, albeit with all their drawbacks, are decent enough and the game is just fun. You may enter every single house in the city too, stealing from its residents (for the greater good of course). The city districts vary a lot and there are also catacombs and so on, hence why locations are interesting and have a different feeling to them as well.

Overall, it is a very decent game, definitely worth playing if you enjoy cRPGs. If only the beginning wasn't so bad, the game would probably gain much more popularity. Nonetheless, it is worth to go through the boring start and then find a very enjoyable action role-playing game.

You can thank me later.

 

[J1M]

Don't be like Phil Fish. If you are working on something that has any chance of becoming a commercial endeavor and willing to sink hundreds of hours of work into it, sign a contract outlining who owns what and what happens if someone loses interest in the project. Deciding to release all progress as open source is another approach.

I'm assuming that the catalyst for this thread was that comic about how hobbies are ruined by popularity. Back on page one there seemed to be more enthusiasm and optimism regarding disruption. Does creating one NWN mod or one PnP module really accomplish the goals laid out in the OP? Aren't game jams one of the most thoroughly colonized forms of media?

I'd like to hear more from those big-brain idea people on the establishment of a new hobby. To light some fire for that discussion I offer the reminder that Gygax et al created D&D from their tabletop wargaming experiences.

We have long debated "what is an RPG?", it's time to debate "what follows RPGs?" for those that once enjoyed them.

 

[Null Null]

Don't be like Phil Fish. If you are working on something that has any chance of becoming a commercial endeavor and willing to sink hundreds of hours of work into it, sign a contract outlining who owns what and what happens if someone loses interest in the project. Deciding to release all progress as open source is another approach.

I'm assuming that the catalyst for this thread was that comic about how hobbies are ruined by popularity. Back on page one there seemed to be more enthusiasm and optimism regarding disruption. Does creating one NWN mod or one PnP module really accomplish the goals laid out in the OP? Aren't game jams one of the most thoroughly colonized forms of media?

I'd like to hear more from those big-brain idea people on the establishment of a new hobby. To light some fire for that discussion I offer the reminder that Gygax et al created D&D from their tabletop wargaming experiences.

We have long debated "what is an RPG?", it's time to debate "what follows RPGs?" for those that once enjoyed them.

It's an interesting question.

James Malizewski (sp?) from Grognardia argued the tabletop game was a transitional form between the wargame and the more-popular massively-multiplayer online RPG. The CRPG is the obvious link between the tabletop RPG and the MMORPG, just as live theater was superseded by movies.

People still put on plays, though. And D&D became more popular with everyone shut in at home during the pandemic.

It's very hard to to design the 'next D&D'; these things just happen by accident as people start playing them and they become popular. Gygax did not expect things to take off as they did, and his lack of business savvy (really common with creative people) was one of the big reasons the company ran into trouble pretty soon.

Skateboarding came about because surfers were bored. D&D was wargames-meets-sword-and-sorcery-fiction, the CRPG was 'let's play D&D on the computer'. But there were no marketing consultants involved.

So I'd say--make something you like, and see if you can spread it. At the very least you'll have made something you like.

 

[J1M]

One way to predict where things are going is to look at their trajectory.

RPGs were a result of applying changes to tabletop wargaming. In design terms, creating persistence between sessions and customizing the individual characters on the battlefield. It is natural that once bookkeeping was required for each unit that the play focused on fewer units. Eventually settling on each player focusing on a single character as character building and inventory complexity increased.

Persistence between sessions naturally leads to the idea of a story to give context to a battle. I don't think the fantasy adventure ideas or dungeons were a given, but they certainly have an innate appeal.

Is simulating more elements of individual characters the future of RPGs? I hope not. That would probably play as a set of chores with arbitrary penalties and I enjoy games where you define a full party.

Would zooming in further to make the game about less than one character make any sense? I don't think this could be done successfully as a genre. (Possibly interesting as a gimmick in certain games such as co-op reflex challenges or a Dr. Hyde character story.)

What would more persistence look like? Perhaps the ability to import characters from one game to another? Or them living in a save system that is separated from the games? Power curve progression would need to change, but it sounds like something players would like.

Of course whatever is next may introduce new elements, not just take existing ones to extremes.

 

[J1M]

Theorycrafting, roguelikes, and card battlers gaining popularity show that people enjoy the exercise of building up characters, but that a shorter feedback loop than traditional RPGs has appeal.

It is now basically standard for these genres to incorporate persisted progression even though the majority of choices and power are reset after a play session. (Versus the only thing carried over in Rogue or Solitaire is knowledge.)

Should every dungeon in an RPG be a localized environment with its own progression and character building systems that are isolated to there? Is the additional complexity worth the trade-off? Would these systems put pressure on the base character choices to become simpler?

Systemic maturity of temporal and global progression systems will produce some interesting gameplay experiences, but that alone is probably not enough to define an RPG subgenre.

 

[Null Null]

Theorycrafting, roguelikes, and card battlers gaining popularity show that people enjoy the exercise of building up characters, but that a shorter feedback loop than traditional RPGs has appeal.

It is now basically standard for these genres to incorporate persisted progression even though the majority of choices and power are reset after a play session. (Versus the only thing carried over in Rogue or Solitaire is knowledge.)

Should every dungeon in an RPG be a localized environment with its own progression and character building systems that are isolated to there? Is the additional complexity worth the trade-off? Would these systems put pressure on the base character choices to become simpler?

Systemic maturity of temporal and global progression systems will produce some interesting gameplay experiences, but that alone is probably not enough to define an RPG subgenre.

'Lite RPGs' that have the character-building aspects and such but only last 5 hours instead of the usual 30? Everyone's short on time anyway.

You could chain them together and allow people to import their character from one to the next to encourage them to buy them all (a la Wizardry, Bard's Tale, goldbox etc.)

 

[Viata]

You could chain them together and allow people to import their character from one to the next to encourage them to buy them all (a la Wizardry, Bard's Tale, goldbox etc.)

Adventure Module of pnp finally reaching to computers. Just release a character editor software so the player is free to make his character and then use it in those adventure module for him to have fun. The short time also works perfectly since it's just a short adventure, not an epic game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You could chain them together and allow people to import their character from one to the next to encourage them to buy them all (a la Wizardry, Bard's Tale, goldbox etc.)

Adventure Module of pnp finally reaching to computers. Just release a character editor software so the player is free to make his character and then use it in those adventure module for him to have fun. The short time also works perfectly since it's just a short adventure, not an epic game.

this is how nwn was originally supposed to work, it was going to be a collection of short modules

went to go check on the gamasutra article about it just to find out that sjws killed gamasutra because they found the name offensive

 

[J1M]

Thoughts on another axis of genre definition: the level of abstraction.

4X games abstract to the level of an empire. RPGs to the individual characters. Other strategy genres land somewhere in between.

A barely-explored level of abstraction in RPGs is that of simulating/controlling the player at the table controlling the character. Would it be interesting to allocate points between tactical prowess and role playing ability? Affinity for managing a spell book? Preferences for game times, communication style, and so on?

What about a management-style game where you recruit and organize players for a game store, assigning them to specific tables? Or engaged with adventures indirectly by constructing them for simulated players, aiming for the right difficulty level and content mix to keep their interest?

 

[Skdursh]

 

[Falksi]

Someone start a thread or a PM or discord or whatever and let's do this

I'm making the Discord now. Expect your invite via PM in the next couple of hours. I've not used Discord much so I'm messing with security settings and such, trying to make it nice for when I invite people.

Did this ever get rolling?

Been a manic past month or so, and so may have missed or forgotten about it?

 

[SlightlyRadioactive]

Someone start a thread or a PM or discord or whatever and let's do this

I'm making the Discord now. Expect your invite via PM in the next couple of hours. I've not used Discord much so I'm messing with security settings and such, trying to make it nice for when I invite people.

Did this ever get rolling?

Been a manic past month or so, and so may have missed or forgotten about it?

Nothing happened, maybe organizing a game jam would probably demand more effort than we thought. Nevertheless I still am up to creating a small project with fellow codexers just to hone my programming skills, if anyone has ideas for a short RPG just tell me and let's try to make something out of it.

 

[Null Null]

Just make a silly RPG maker game. Just having done something will give you a sense of accomplishment and possibly attract more people.

 

[Null Null]

Heck, I'll add to it. Make a contest. I don't know what other authoring packages are out there besides RPG Maker, but it's something to consider.