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What is actually good of the White Wolf stuff and what would it take to run it in a sane manner?

hello friend

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I've got questions. Multiple questions. Lately I've been browsing Mage:the Ascension lore and I'm not sure why. Werewolf seems completely, unredeemably gay and Vampire seems like the pointless kind of autistic, but Mage looks really cool. People say it's a bitch to run. Supposedly Mage:the Awakening was a fix for this, but is it, though? Also I'm not sure if the fluff is as cool. In any P&P setting, it's always the most fun to play humans having a hard time in a hard world, and most of the WoD stuff doesn't seem to cater to that.

-What is the best oWoD/nWoD lore, and what is the best way to inject it into my veins? Reading rulebooks just for the fluff or reading shitty - but not too shitty - novels set in a cool setting is a-ok with me. But I'm not about to read it all, that would be insane.

-oWoD/nWoD which is better and why? Are the mechanics of the new stuff better? Is the lore better? How hard is it to port over the old stuff to the new stuff, and how would one go about doing it specifically? Or perhaps just port it over into a completely different system?

-Any of you Storytellers have any experience running Hunter:the Vigil or Mage:the Something? Some tips? Do you use the other settings for monster generation or do you have a better, faster way of doing it that's nonetheless flavourful?

-How do you go about combining multiple franchises, such as Mage:the X, Hunter:the Vigil, and Changeling:the Lost

-Geez there are like 10 different versions. Which nWoD? Alternatively, which oWoD? What are the good sourcebooks? Armory seems like a no brainer.

-Seriously how the fuck do you run Mage and make it cool

-Add your own questions idno
 

Shadenuat

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[my whole white wolf knowledge] Di Terlizzi illustrated Changeling: Dreaming. it has selkies. (although I think those are not part of main book) [/my whole white wolf knowledge]
 

Grunker

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I only play Vampire, either OWoD or just WoD, and we only use the basic lore/V20 and ignore all the extended shit with their retarded cameos and autistic “deep lore”. I like the idea of mage but like you say it’s not always fun to play. I find none of the other games to be very compelling to actually run.

So I’d say what you need is buy V20 and you’re set. Anything else you can fill in yourself.
 
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Oh, man, this brings back some memories...

1. The best way (IMHO) to absorb WoD lore is to peruse a wiki and go with whatever you might find interesting. It will give you the condensed version of whatever is canon and non-canon, and save you hundreds of hours. As to what's good and what's not, it's been a really long time (almost 20 years) since my last V:TM game, but as far as I can remember it had more soucebooks than any D&D edition you can think of. I think V:TM and M:TA were by far the most interesting, the first because of the constant intrigue and the second, because all of the out-of-the-box thinking it required. W:TA was about hippy meat grinders, and while I liked some of its aspects, roleplaying a cosmopolitan bloodsucking parasite has more of an appeal. Also, every pretentious acquaintance I had back then had a hard-on for roleplaying Fianna werewolves with big egos. I also almost played Mummy: The Resurrection once, but I was adamant about playing Lenin's mummy and the GM got pissed off (this was a GM who'd always ad-lib everything without any talent for ad-libbing, so every game and every character wound up being the same, regardless of the universe or type of character it was supposed to be, i.e.: he'd roleplay GG Allin and the Queen of the UK the exact same way and by that I mean like the Queen of the UK).

2. I prefer oWoD over nWoD. That said my experience of nWoD is rather limited, but those games always felt like a thought experiment where WW took the oWoD sales for granted (nWoD Werewolf was pretty much the werewolves stuck in their own ghetto the whole time, moreso than in oWoD). There are translation guides to convert oWoD characters to nWoD so there's that should you need it. They did some changes to target numbers and fixed the way the system worked a bit and those who played it liked it better. The lore per se isn't of a higher quality in either WoD but oWoD has much more and consequently, there's more of the good stuff. Those were strange days (we also had the X-Files craze going on) and people lapped up everything WW shat, but then again I read The Dragonlance Chronicles back in the day, so who am I to judge. Get V20/M20/W20 and you'll have a condensed version of the good stuff with all the corrections and updates included. The fact that oWoD, and not nWoD, got reprinted says volumes.

3. Can't help you there. I would have liked to run or play a game of Mage, but it requires a lot of lateral thinking for the players to do stuff without reality noticing that they are twisting its nipple, and that was not a quality that was abundant in my group back then.

4. That was tried a lot of times in the groups I played with back in the day, but never to a satisfactory result. Although the system is pretty much the same, the mechanics specific to each setting are VERY different. You can make it work for 90% of the time, but at some point you'll need to make an opposed check of something the other side doesn't have (humanity, areté, gnosis), and you are screwed. Or the powers they have are tuned for their own game but will fuck in half whatever they can find in one of the other WoD settings (usually, Werewolves in another game, because they deal aggravated damage and have massive physical bonuses and soak rolls). So you can make it work if the "foreign" characters are NPCs, but it's inadvisable for PCs (at least in my experience).

5. About the sourcebooks: get the 20 Anniversary Edition ones, plus their sourcebooks. You get the stuff that used to come in 4 separate books in a single one.
 

hello friend

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Oh, man, this brings back some memories...

1. The best way (IMHO) to absorb WoD lore is to peruse a wiki and go with whatever you might find interesting. It will give you the condensed version of whatever is canon and non-canon, and save you hundreds of hours. As to what's good and what's not, it's been a really long time (almost 20 years) since my last V:TM game, but as far as I can remember it had more soucebooks than any D&D edition you can think of. I think V:TM and M:TA were by far the most interesting, the first because of the constant intrigue and the second, because all of the out-of-the-box thinking it required. W:TA was about hippy meat grinders, and while I liked some of its aspects, roleplaying a cosmopolitan bloodsucking parasite has more of an appeal. Also, every pretentious acquaintance I had back then had a hard-on for roleplaying Fianna werewolves with big egos. I also almost played Mummy: The Resurrection once, but I was adamant about playing Lenin's mummy and the GM got pissed off (this was a GM who'd always ad-lib everything without any talent for ad-libbing, so every game and every character wound up being the same, regardless of the universe or type of character it was supposed to be, i.e.: he'd roleplay GG Allin and the Queen of the UK the exact same way and by that I mean like the Queen of the UK).

2. I prefer oWoD over nWoD. That said my experience of nWoD is rather limited, but those games always felt like a thought experiment where WW took the oWoD sales for granted (nWoD Werewolf was pretty much the werewolves stuck in their own ghetto the whole time, moreso than in oWoD). There are translation guides to convert oWoD characters to nWoD so there's that should you need it. They did some changes to target numbers and fixed the way the system worked a bit and those who played it liked it better. The lore per se isn't of a higher quality in either WoD but oWoD has much more and consequently, there's more of the good stuff. Those were strange days (we also had the X-Files craze going on) and people lapped up everything WW shat, but then again I read The Dragonlance Chronicles back in the day, so who am I to judge. Get V20/M20/W20 and you'll have a condensed version of the good stuff with all the corrections and updates included. The fact that oWoD, and not nWoD, got reprinted says volumes.

3. Can't help you there. I would have liked to run or play a game of Mage, but it requires a lot of lateral thinking for the players to do stuff without reality noticing that they are twisting its nipple, and that was not a quality that was abundant in my group back then.

4. That was tried a lot of times in the groups I played with back in the day, but never to a satisfactory result. Although the system is pretty much the same, the mechanics specific to each setting are VERY different. You can make it work for 90% of the time, but at some point you'll need to make an opposed check of something the other side doesn't have (humanity, areté, gnosis), and you are screwed. Or the powers they have are tuned for their own game but will fuck in half whatever they can find in one of the other WoD settings (usually, Werewolves in another game, because they deal aggravated damage and have massive physical bonuses and soak rolls). So you can make it work if the "foreign" characters are NPCs, but it's inadvisable for PCs (at least in my experience).

5. About the sourcebooks: get the 20 Anniversary Edition ones, plus their sourcebooks. You get the stuff that used to come in 4 separate books in a single one.
Ok thanks, that gives me a place to start. I got myself the M20 books and the Hunter:the Vigil stuff, also I already have everything for Changeling:the Lost. Does the translation guide help translating equipment from those extra books, armoury reloaded and shit? Would be good to have some good go to lists for a lot of weaponry and gear. I'm honestly not all that interested in vampires or werewolves as anything but antagonists, so any material from those franchises is more useful for inspiration rather than for use as a cohesive ruleset. And I agree, having a rainbow squad of pcs from various franchises is a recipe for disaster. I was more thinking along the lines of using multiple franchises for the setting itself, and then running a party of hunters in that setting one campaign, then next campaign could be like a party of mages in that same setting, thus changing and further fleshing out the setting. Whether that be followed by, say, another group of hunters or a group of changelings. Changeling is so cool thematically for the Pan's Labyrinthy potential but realistically it probably attracts the mentally ill like moths to a flame so it would be hard to actually realise that potential instead of getting something retarded.

Stainless Veteran iirc you were heavy into the WoD stuff, were you ever a Storyteller and can you share some insights? Unkillable Cat you know some shit too, yeah?
 

Unkillable Cat

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Sorry, I was never into WoD. The closest I got was the time when Crowd Control Productions owned the license and did fuck-all with it.
 

lightbane

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Changeling the Lost is one of the best NWod books, or at least 1st edition. No idea how the second edition is. These books attract all kinds of horrible people though, especially the old Changeling: The Dreaming one. The rules are also almost always bad, especially combat. Changeling the Lost for example has some unworkable powers you can theoretically use but are not really worth or possible to do in a serious situation.

Promethean the Created is a good read, but completely unplayable, no idea about the second edition.

As for OWoD, Vampire and classic mage (especially the Technocracy books) are good, but the writers are supreme edgelords. That's been a fact always, but it peaked during the last edition of Vampire (the 5th one IIRC), since clown world didn't tolerate the attempts of the writers going woke and edgy at the same time, which means WW die das a company. Beast The Primordial is absolutely awful except to create enemies that all factions will hate, which fits as it was written by a legit sex predator.

Both the classic OWoD Demon and the NWoD one are cool, but also almost unplayable, especially the second one, as the power level is all over the place, and it doesn't fit with the rest of the game lines.
 

deuxhero

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The best way to play Hunter is to play the Savage Worlds version of Monster Hunter International instead, if you want to play supernaturals the best way is to play as Special Task Force Unicorn pawns in the HERO version.
 
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I've got questions. Multiple questions. Lately I've been browsing Mage:the Ascension lore and I'm not sure why. Werewolf seems completely, unredeemably gay and Vampire seems like the pointless kind of autistic, but Mage looks really cool. People say it's a bitch to run. Supposedly Mage:the Awakening was a fix for this, but is it, though? Also I'm not sure if the fluff is as cool. In any P&P setting, it's always the most fun to play humans having a hard time in a hard world, and most of the WoD stuff doesn't seem to cater to that.

-What is the best oWoD/nWoD lore, and what is the best way to inject it into my veins? Reading rulebooks just for the fluff or reading shitty - but not too shitty - novels set in a cool setting is a-ok with me. But I'm not about to read it all, that would be insane.

-oWoD/nWoD which is better and why? Are the mechanics of the new stuff better? Is the lore better? How hard is it to port over the old stuff to the new stuff, and how would one go about doing it specifically? Or perhaps just port it over into a completely different system?

-Any of you Storytellers have any experience running Hunter:the Vigil or Mage:the Something? Some tips? Do you use the other settings for monster generation or do you have a better, faster way of doing it that's nonetheless flavourful?

-How do you go about combining multiple franchises, such as Mage:the X, Hunter:the Vigil, and Changeling:the Lost

-Geez there are like 10 different versions. Which nWoD? Alternatively, which oWoD? What are the good sourcebooks? Armory seems like a no brainer.

-Seriously how the fuck do you run Mage and make it cool

-Add your own questions idno
NWoD was dog shit. It was made in the reboot era of the mid 2000's where they would just change things because they could. It's existence is pointless. Gehenna isn't the weight around WoD lore that people think it is. At worst work on a sliding timescale or just keep saying it's happening at some hazy "soon" time. You didn't need to reboot the entire fucking lore into a lesser version with all the cool bits removed because you were too lazy to write around Gehenna properly.

Also if you want to go as insane as I am, my favourite WoD splatbook is the officially unofficial Exalted vs World of Darkness. Combining the lore of White Wolf's Exalted into World of Darkness (which was originally the official plan as per first ed Hunter.) You are suddenly Goku. Which is great because every single WoD apocalypse is happening right now. Also the knowledge of Exalted has been forgotten for several thousand years and you have no idea why you are suddenly Goku but you have these hazy memories of several lifetimes of being Chuck Norris and Vampires really want to kill you.

Great book. Really fun to run if you just want a wacky session or a more horror driven Super Hero game.
 
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Ok thanks, that gives me a place to start. I got myself the M20 books and the Hunter:the Vigil stuff, also I already have everything for Changeling:the Lost. Does the translation guide help translating equipment from those extra books, armoury reloaded and shit? Would be good to have some good go to lists for a lot of weaponry and gear. I'm honestly not all that interested in vampires or werewolves as anything but antagonists, so any material from those franchises is more useful for inspiration rather than for use as a cohesive ruleset. And I agree, having a rainbow squad of pcs from various franchises is a recipe for disaster. I was more thinking along the lines of using multiple franchises for the setting itself, and then running a party of hunters in that setting one campaign, then next campaign could be like a party of mages in that same setting, thus changing and further fleshing out the setting. Whether that be followed by, say, another group of hunters or a group of changelings. Changeling is so cool thematically for the Pan's Labyrinthy potential but realistically it probably attracts the mentally ill like moths to a flame so it would be hard to actually realise that potential instead of getting something retarded.

About the translation guides, I wouldn't know as I haven't read them, but they were official White Wolf books, so I'd expect those to cover more than the basics. And about Changeling, yes, the only player I met who wasn't unhinged is a friend of mine who plays elves in every single setting (so I guess he's somewhat peculiar).
 

Jason Liang

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Mage: The Ascension is the jewel in White Wolf's eye. When I was interning for White Wolf, like Vampire was WW's bread and butter, but Mage was the pride and joy.

As for learning the lore, it's pretty easy for Vampire, as literally every side product explains the basics of the lore - the Bloodlines video game, LA by Night, etc... For Mage, it's mostly just the core rulebook (i.e. Mage 2nd Edition, as well as the Guide to the Technocracy). Or just have someone explain the basic concepts like consensual reality.

I guess you can divide the lore into two groups: the "deep lore" and the "metaplot." It sounds like you are more interested in the "deep lore" stuff, which the problem is nothing is ever really explicitly explained and it's mostly just conjectures and innuendos and spread across all the splat books. The metaplot stuff is kind of ok, leading up to oWoD Gehenna anyway.

So a list of basic and notable books/ splat books with the most fruitful rabbit holes~

Mage: The Ascension 1st/ 2nd Edition
Guide to the Technocracy
Book of the Wyrm
Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade

Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd/ Revised (3rd) Edition
The Kindred Most Wanted
Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy
Vampire: Dark Ages 1st/ Revised
Clanbook Cappadocian
Clanbook Baali
House of Tremere
Giovanni Chronicles (I-IV)
Transylvania Chronicles (I-IV)
Jerusalem by Night/ Fountains of Bright Crimson
Clan Novel Saga (novels)
Gehenna: The Final Night (novel)
Gehenna (Sourcebook)
LA by Night podcasts

Going down the Giovanni rabbit hole will take you to the Wraith lore.
 
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hello friend

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Mage: The Ascension is the jewel in White Wolf's eye. When I was interning for White Wolf, like Vampire was WW's bread and butter, but Mage was the pride and joy.

As for learning the lore, it's pretty easy for Vampire, as literally every side product explains the basics of the lore - the Bloodlines video game, LA by Night, etc... For Mage, it's mostly just the core rulebook (i.e. Mage 2nd Edition, as well as the Guide to the Technocracy). Or just have someone explain the basic concepts like consensual reality.

I guess you can divide the lore into two groups: the "deep lore" and the "metaplot." It sounds like you are more interested in the "deep lore" stuff, which the problem is nothing is ever really explicitly explained and it's mostly just conjectures and innuendos and spread across all the splat books. The metaplot stuff is kind of ok, leading up to oWoD Gehenna anyway.

So a list of basic and notable books/ splat books with the most fruitful rabbit holes~

Mage: The Ascension 1st/ 2nd Edition
Guide to the Technocracy
Book of the Wyrm
Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade

Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd/ Revised (3rd) Edition
The Kindred Most Wanted
Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy
Vampire: Dark Ages 1st/ Revised
Clanbook Cappadocian
Clanbook Baali
House of Tremere
Giovanni Chronicles (I-IV)
Transylvania Chronicles (I-IV)
Jerusalem by Night/ Fountains of Bright Blood
Clan Novel Saga (novels)
Gehenna: The Final Night (novel)
Gehenna (Sourcebook)
LA by Night podcasts

Going down the Giovanni rabbit hole will take you to the Wraith lore.
Fantastic, thanks. You're right, the metaplot isn't that important to me. I'm more interested in things that flesh out a setting than some kind of canonical narrative. I'll get all those books. You say you interned at White Wolf? What was that like? This was in Iceland?
 

Jason Liang

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Mage: The Ascension is the jewel in White Wolf's eye. When I was interning for White Wolf, like Vampire was WW's bread and butter, but Mage was the pride and joy.

As for learning the lore, it's pretty easy for Vampire, as literally every side product explains the basics of the lore - the Bloodlines video game, LA by Night, etc... For Mage, it's mostly just the core rulebook (i.e. Mage 2nd Edition, as well as the Guide to the Technocracy). Or just have someone explain the basic concepts like consensual reality.

I guess you can divide the lore into two groups: the "deep lore" and the "metaplot." It sounds like you are more interested in the "deep lore" stuff, which the problem is nothing is ever really explicitly explained and it's mostly just conjectures and innuendos and spread across all the splat books. The metaplot stuff is kind of ok, leading up to oWoD Gehenna anyway.

So a list of basic and notable books/ splat books with the most fruitful rabbit holes~

Mage: The Ascension 1st/ 2nd Edition
Guide to the Technocracy
Book of the Wyrm
Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade

Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd/ Revised (3rd) Edition
The Kindred Most Wanted
Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy
Vampire: Dark Ages 1st/ Revised
Clanbook Cappadocian
Clanbook Baali
House of Tremere
Giovanni Chronicles (I-IV)
Transylvania Chronicles (I-IV)
Jerusalem by Night/ Fountains of Bright Blood
Clan Novel Saga (novels)
Gehenna: The Final Night (novel)
Gehenna (Sourcebook)
LA by Night podcasts

Going down the Giovanni rabbit hole will take you to the Wraith lore.
Fantastic, thanks. You're right, the metaplot isn't that important to me. I'm more interested in things that flesh out a setting than some kind of canonical narrative. I'll get all those books. You say you interned at White Wolf? What was that like? This was in Iceland?
No this was almost exactly 20 years ago, in Stone Mountain, GA. I got to meet the very impressive (and very tall) Steve Wieck, and got to work with and converse daily with Justin Achilli, Rich Thomas, etc... White Wolf was still a small company of about 30ish full time employees at the time, and I got to see behind the scenes of how a tabletop gaming and fantasy fiction creator/ publisher operated. Looking back, all of these publishers (FASA, TSR, White Wolf, AEG, SJG) were really small companies that all knew and were very close to each other and had links and connections with one another. It was also a really exciting and fruitful time for White Wolf - Vampire: Redemption had just come out, Troika was working on Bloodlines (I worked on the Bloodlines expansion for VtES), Vampire was setting up for Time of Judgment, Achilli was already working on the systems for Vampire: The Requiem, White Wolf was also publishing Swords and Sorcery stuff from Monty Cook as well as Exalted, and the company was printing cardboard money off of VtES.
Years later, when Wieck parlayed White Wolf into a board seat at CCP, I was not at all surprised. He is the model of a successful CEO of a self-started enterprise. Very inspiring. Starkly so in comparison with the other gaming company CEOs that I knew.
 
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J1M

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Messages
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Mage: The Ascension is the jewel in White Wolf's eye. When I was interning for White Wolf, like Vampire was WW's bread and butter, but Mage was the pride and joy.

As for learning the lore, it's pretty easy for Vampire, as literally every side product explains the basics of the lore - the Bloodlines video game, LA by Night, etc... For Mage, it's mostly just the core rulebook (i.e. Mage 2nd Edition, as well as the Guide to the Technocracy). Or just have someone explain the basic concepts like consensual reality.

I guess you can divide the lore into two groups: the "deep lore" and the "metaplot." It sounds like you are more interested in the "deep lore" stuff, which the problem is nothing is ever really explicitly explained and it's mostly just conjectures and innuendos and spread across all the splat books. The metaplot stuff is kind of ok, leading up to oWoD Gehenna anyway.

So a list of basic and notable books/ splat books with the most fruitful rabbit holes~

Mage: The Ascension 1st/ 2nd Edition
Guide to the Technocracy
Book of the Wyrm
Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade

Vampire: The Masquerade 2nd/ Revised (3rd) Edition
The Kindred Most Wanted
Blood Magic: Secrets of Thaumaturgy
Vampire: Dark Ages 1st/ Revised
Clanbook Cappadocian
Clanbook Baali
House of Tremere
Giovanni Chronicles (I-IV)
Transylvania Chronicles (I-IV)
Jerusalem by Night/ Fountains of Bright Blood
Clan Novel Saga (novels)
Gehenna: The Final Night (novel)
Gehenna (Sourcebook)
LA by Night podcasts

Going down the Giovanni rabbit hole will take you to the Wraith lore.
Fantastic, thanks. You're right, the metaplot isn't that important to me. I'm more interested in things that flesh out a setting than some kind of canonical narrative. I'll get all those books. You say you interned at White Wolf? What was that like? This was in Iceland?
I don't have nearly the WoD knowledge as some people around here, but I am surprised the Book of Nod isn't on that list. It's great imagination fuel and probably where I'd suggest someone start if they wanted to learn more about Vampire and have some familiarity.

In terms of running a game, Hunter might be appealing because you could in theory have them go up against a bunch of supernatural creatures and dip into various lore for your bestiary, but Vampire or Mage is probably the only place to involve the players in the political machinations of power players without it feeling either silly or too removed from reality to be identifiable.
 

Jason Liang

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I don't find Book of Nod that useful, with very fluffy content. It's more like a prop, and sort of the exact antithesis of the kind of book I'd recommend.

Sure, KMW is a bit fluffy too, but at least it gives the reader some insight as to how the Camarilla Red List works and what types of "crimes" get a vampire (or other entity) on the List.
 
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Stainless Veteran iirc you were heavy into the WoD stuff, were you ever a Storyteller and can you share some insights?
Hm. My most sage advice is this: never play or run Changeling: The Dreaming, it's for faggots.
Other than this, well, let's see.

Werewolf seems completely, unredeemably gay
Not really, it depends on you and the players mostly. Ban any furry adjacent persons and you can run a sweet campaign about corporate hacker werewolves, who basically enter Astral/Matrix to steal valuable data from corporations and whatnot. Sort of like Shadowrun, but in a more contemporary setting. Or you can run a campaign about hobo-werewolves, who are desperately searching who and why is corrupting their patron spirits - the Spirit of that Dark Alley, Spirit of Neverending Trash Heap, and various other city spirits, who help them. Or, if you want combatfaggotry, you can completely steamroll everything except mages. So I woldn't discard WtA completely.

and Vampire seems like the pointless kind of autistic
Not really, Vampire is the most versatile lineup, and most of the metaplot are there, in VtM books.

but Mage looks really cool. People say it's a bitch to run. Supposedly Mage:the Awakening was a fix for this, but is it, though?
Yeah, MtA is pretty great, although imbalanced as fuck. I mostly played Technocracy though. Can't really give advice on it, because I kinda found most of the traditions rather overlapping and somewhat arbitrary. Especially those Emos.

Also I'm not sure if the fluff is as cool. In any P&P setting, it's always the most fun to play humans having a hard time in a hard world, and most of the WoD stuff doesn't seem to cater to that.
Hunter: The Reckoning to the rescue. If you sometimes wanted to play as Father Alexander Anderson from Hellsing, it's your chance. Or if you liked Carpenter's Vampire movie. It's a later lineup, so it's somewhat unfinished and imbalanced, but really fun.

-What is the best oWoD/nWoD lore, and what is the best way to inject it into my veins? Reading rulebooks just for the fluff or reading shitty - but not too shitty - novels set in a cool setting is a-ok with me. But I'm not about to read it all, that would be insane.
Hmm. In my opinion the lore in Revised edition is gradually spread through clanbooks (tribebooks, traditiounbooks, whatever) and supplements. There is no definite lorebook, even Gehenna has multiple incompatible scenarios. VtM novels are a mixed bag, some are written by people who never read any WoD book and know shit all about setting.

-oWoD/nWoD which is better and why? Are the mechanics of the new stuff better? Is the lore better? How hard is it to port over the old stuff to the new stuff, and how would one go about doing it specifically? Or perhaps just port it over into a completely different system?
Don't really know nWoD mechanics too well, but compared to oWoD new lore was shit and gay.

-Any of you Storytellers have any experience running Hunter:the Vigil or Mage:the Something? Some tips? Do you use the other settings for monster generation or do you have a better, faster way of doing it that's nonetheless flavourful?
I mostly used ideas from folktales, books and sometimes movies/anime. Never generated by template, so I can't say I know any useful speedhacks. Run Hunter: The Reckoning, it was really fun with angst, laughs, overcoming of impossible odds and whatnot. Never played/GMd HtV.

-How do you go about combining multiple franchises, such as Mage:the X, Hunter:the Vigil, and Changeling:the Lost
In oWoD? Very simple. You need to know at least some basic lore about major players a city - vampires, of course, but also mages, Technocracy, Pentex, some werewolves. If you're running small city/town campaign, than mostly vampires and an occasional mage. Then you need to envision their interests, what they want, why they want this, and what are they prepared to do to reach their goals. You can also add various exotic bloodlines, creatures, wraiths, spectres, cultists, and various other antagonists or allies. You should also prepare in advance if you're going to run combat-heavy campaign, look up various munchkin mechanics holes, and patch them if you can. Design organic combat encounters, (not like in Dragon Age 2, where enemies fell on you from the sky or slided down in suddenly appearing rope).

I didn't got into nWoD at all, so I can't comment.

-Geez there are like 10 different versions. Which nWoD? Alternatively, which oWoD? What are the good sourcebooks? Armory seems like a no brainer.
I'd recommend VtM corebooks, Guide to Camarilla, Guide to Sabbath, all clanbooks (some are shit lorewise, for example Gangrel clanbook, but they all have various metaplot pieces and some interesting Disciplines). Baali clanbook is shit though. From WtA I can recommend Corebooks, Umbra, Tribebooks Bonegnawers and Glass Walkers. Maybe Freak Legion, although it's a very trashy book. Mage corebook is decend, I really liked Guide to Technocracy though. Tradition books are a really mixed bag. Boy, do I hate Hollow Ones.

I really recommend Wraith: the Oblivion, corebooks are quite interesting and the concept is pretty fun. Shame they killed it early.

Hunter books are serviceable.

Demon: the Fallen is shit, don't bother.

Don't touch Changeling: the Dreaming, or you'll become infected by its faggotry and will become an otherkin and will start a Tumblr.

-Seriously how the fuck do you run Mage and make it cool
You can do anything you want with mages, marauders and barabbi. You can try emulate urban fantasy stories, such as Constantine comics, you can try and run trippy astral campaign, you can pit mages against various other races, you can create a story of personal enlightment. What kind of campaign you want to run, anyway?
 

Eldagusto

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World of Darkness/Whitewolf is my specialty. Its horribly woke but they have a lot of gems. Don't discount Werewolf, look up the Revised era books they are golden, and W20 has great crunch. The Storyteller's Vault is actually pretty great lately with fanmade high quality Material. Changeling the Dreaming 20th is a damn solid book. New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness is also pretty great, with smooth out rules, and its more sandboxy. I haven't read the 2nd ed of Changeling the Lost, some of the changes I didn't like, but 1st ed was beautiful.
 

Rilmani404

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World of Darkness/Whitewolf is my specialty. Its horribly woke but they have a lot of gems. Don't discount Werewolf, look up the Revised era books they are golden, and W20 has great crunch. The Storyteller's Vault is actually pretty great lately with fanmade high quality Material. Changeling the Dreaming 20th is a damn solid book. New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness is also pretty great, with smooth out rules, and its more sandboxy. I haven't read the 2nd ed of Changeling the Lost, some of the changes I didn't like, but 1st ed was beautiful.
Any input on Exalted 3rd edition? Character creation, lore, organizations, mechanics, combat…?
 

Eldagusto

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World of Darkness/Whitewolf is my specialty. Its horribly woke but they have a lot of gems. Don't discount Werewolf, look up the Revised era books they are golden, and W20 has great crunch. The Storyteller's Vault is actually pretty great lately with fanmade high quality Material. Changeling the Dreaming 20th is a damn solid book. New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness is also pretty great, with smooth out rules, and its more sandboxy. I haven't read the 2nd ed of Changeling the Lost, some of the changes I didn't like, but 1st ed was beautiful.
Any input on Exalted 3rd edition? Character creation, lore, organizations, mechanics, combat…?

I love 3rd edition, the combat is very fun and fulfilling even without supernatural powers. The change to a merit system more like Chronicles of Darkness replacing Backgrounds is a good change. Combat and social interactions have a lot of interesting rules that can be confusing at first but after playing/running it works well. One side effect though is you can’t do a quick fight as well.

But the social system I love it so much I try to import it into other games like World of Darkness games. The Intimacies work. So much better then the social rules in 1st and 2nd Ed allowing you to basically establish what someone cares about and what kind of person they are in such a way that it makes powers that take these into account satisfying.

I like that the Quick Character (QC) rules allow for the easy and swift creation of NPCs but I’m not a fan of them because their rules kind of flub and dumb down their stats. PCs are already demigods, you don’t also need to make those they Interact with chumps.

the powers are fun and varied, I especially love the Martial Arts, Magic and the Artifact system.

Here is the bad part it’s very woke and propaganda heavy in most of its fluff and lore. And the fan base have become toxic and totalitarian sycophants in their larger communities, not permitting disagreements and all that rot. Some of the Authors would have ask me questions threads and minor posts in discord and the toxic community would be hostile if you disagreed or didn’t even know the authors answered it. I left the community because a lot of the mods were corrupt and overused the very meager power they held. They would be nepotistic in the extreme. And the sick part is the mods would be obsessed with trying to become mods in all the communities they found. Meanwhile small communities are usually Creative and nice.

They would go into heavy cultural detail about how varied and realistic the cultures are but for some reason every single culture in Creation, Heaven and Hell are stalwartly LGBT, so that you don’t even have people with different mores and cultures that are against such things like with real cultures. They heavily emphasize that it is a Matriarchal Universe and try to make new stereotypes against men, even incorporating misandry into the voice of the narrator in their books. It comes off bad, like most propaganda. Women are the Chief soldiers but you know pregnancy never interfered with that.

Past editions had Exalts like the Dragonblooded transcend normal Social Roles because being a Prince of the Earth was more important then your gender, but that is reversed and now if a male Dragonblooded marries a peasant woman his child is now part of her family unless his family adopts it. Rather than before where he is treated like a demigod so his children would be regarded as of his family.

They did a good job Expanding the Great House lore for the Dragonblooded, but again it’s twisted with propaganda from the writing staff. Before in past editions the Dragonblooded were lusty people because they had instincts to have children and make more demigods but now in the new edition everyone is prudes and they cut down on orgy talk exponentially. And even though it’s a society that explicitly revolves around bloodlines, arranges marriages and purity that gets ignored if you are gay or transgender. Before it used to be the Dynasty indulged in whatever sexuality the Dragonblooded would have as long as they had a proper marriage to someone who they could have pure bred kids with. So they could have mistresses, gay orgies and Bastards all they want as long as they produced kosher kids with their mate. Now everyone is fine with same sex marriage and transgender spouses and adoption even though that literally goes against the idea they are cultivating supernatural bloodline purity.

If the official community was a toxic authoritarian hellhole it would be a good game to be a fan of.
 
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Rilmani404

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World of Darkness/Whitewolf is my specialty. Its horribly woke but they have a lot of gems. Don't discount Werewolf, look up the Revised era books they are golden, and W20 has great crunch. The Storyteller's Vault is actually pretty great lately with fanmade high quality Material. Changeling the Dreaming 20th is a damn solid book. New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness is also pretty great, with smooth out rules, and its more sandboxy. I haven't read the 2nd ed of Changeling the Lost, some of the changes I didn't like, but 1st ed was beautiful.
Any input on Exalted 3rd edition? Character creation, lore, organizations, mechanics, combat…?

I love 3rd edition,
Do you think the new ruleset would work with any other particular genre/setting? Played-up Action-movie world, a superhero/villain setting, spelljammer science fantasy, or a narrative where the PCs are gods fighting against Elder Evils of far realms in order to create a material plane/planet for mortals?

Oh and do you think this version could be mixed with World of Darkness, as was suggested on the last page? Or would it require significant tinkering?
 

Eldagusto

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Definitely. Supernatural powers could take some tinkering but the basic rules are solid. I was meaning to experiment with the combat system in another Gameline just to try it out.
 

Jason Liang

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Trying to run an Exalted X WoD crossover would be tricky. Exalted is a fantasy/ anime setting, and WoD is not. You could run Exalted a little darker and WoD a little more heroic, but I don't see much of a middle ground between them. Hard to see any reason to take Exalted characters into WoD.
 

Eldagusto

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Trying to run an Exalted X WoD crossover would be tricky. Exalted is a fantasy/ anime setting, and WoD is not. You could run Exalted a little darker and WoD a little more heroic, but I don't see much of a middle ground between them. Hard to see any reason to take Exalted characters into WoD.


One of the ex developers of 3rd Ed wrote three different Exalted vs World of Darkness books so far.
 

Jason Liang

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Trying to run an Exalted X WoD crossover would be tricky. Exalted is a fantasy/ anime setting, and WoD is not. You could run Exalted a little darker and WoD a little more heroic, but I don't see much of a middle ground between them. Hard to see any reason to take Exalted characters into WoD.


One of the ex developers of 3rd Ed wrote three different Exalted vs World of Darkness books so far.
Hm. Interesting. Well, that is one way of doing it!
 

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