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Gothic What is the most overrated cRPG on the codex?

Rincewind

Magister
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
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Location
down under
While there are good games on the Top 50 list, the ordering seems totally out of whack to me. I'd come up with a very different list myself, but that's another story... The problem with all such simplistic rating systems that try to reduce the ranking problem to a single dimension is that you end up with some really strange results (e.g. check out the IMDB rating of some of your favourite movies, then compare it to the ratings of the latest Star Wars or Marvel movies...) Most of the interesting games I played in the last few years I found on felipepe's multi-dimensional graph -- I realised games with a small but devout following are usually the ones for me, while the most popular ones (going by average score alone) are kinda hit and miss.

Anyway, here's my personal rant about it:
  • Any random entry from the rest of the list is a lot better than PST.
  • Top 10 is quite wrong.
  • Pool of Radiance #26, PST #1. Let that sink in for a little while.
  • Only two Gold Box games, huh?
  • Fallout 1 doesn't deserve the 2nd spot compared to many other titles.
  • Gothic 1 is waaaay down at #17.
  • PST #1, Age of Decadence #11 -- is this a joke?
  • Morrowind #10, Gothic #17, and Elex #38. No comment.
  • No Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, or even Legend of Grimrock? I rest my case.
  • etc...
 

Red Hexapus

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
255
Location
The Land of Potato
There's no point of getting butthurt about the list, as it always boils down to personal preference and ranting about including/excluding fav games. For me the list is a good starting point to try the games I wouldn't have tries otherwise, even though I agree with some of your criticisms (no EoB and DM, limited number of GoldBox games). I guess the reason for this might be that these games are antiquated and as such less players will reach and play them. The article of Felipe Pepe at Gamasutra gives a good example: game design students calling themselves fans of Elder Scrolls series, but never playing Arena or even Daggerfall.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busin...ng-the-gaming-industry-curate-its-own-history

As a side note, at least the games are RPGs, and it's mostly a good selection. At one website that I tend to visit from time to time, they made a poll recently on best RPG of past 6 years. Fucking "Rise of the Tomb Raider" was fifth. Let that sink in. :roll:
 
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Rincewind

Magister
Joined
Feb 8, 2020
Messages
1,586
Location
down under
There's no point of getting butthurt about the list, as it always boils down to personal preference and ranting about including/excluding fav games. For me the list is a good starting point to try the games I wouldn't have tries otherwise, even though I agree with some of your criticisms (no EoB and DM, limited number of GoldBox games). I guess the reason for this might be that these games are antiquated and as such less players will reach and play them. The article of Felipe Pepe at Gamasutra gives a good example: game design students calling themselves fans of Elder Scrolls series, but never playing Arena or even Daggerfall.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busin...ng-the-gaming-industry-curate-its-own-history

As a side note, at least the games are RPGs, and it's mostly a good selection. At one website that I tend to visit from time to time, they made a poll recently on best RPG of past 6 years. Fucking "Rise of the Tomb Raider" was fifth. Let that sink in.

All I'm saying is that lists like this generally suck because it's about averages. When I seek out people with similar tastes, going by their recommendations I get a 80%+ success rate. With a Top 50 list like this, well below 50%. So, depending on the person viewing it, half of it will be always under or overrepresented.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
2,890
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

If some western developer put a little more effort into the visual side of things when doing their new blobbers, more than the nothing at all Might and Magic X and The Bard's Tale 4 do, they'd probably do better than new western RPGs with a isometric view...that is if by isometric RPGs you're talking RPGs with some kind of turn based tactical system or ones with real-time with pause and not simply the view.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,653
Location
Perched on a tree
While there are good games on the Top 50 list, the ordering seems totally out of whack to me. I'd come up with a very different list myself, but that's another story... The problem with all such simplistic rating systems that try to reduce the ranking problem to a single dimension is that you end up with some really strange results (e.g. check out the IMDB rating of some of your favourite movies, then compare it to the ratings of the latest Star Wars or Marvel movies...) Most of the interesting games I played in the last few years I found on felipepe's multi-dimensional graph -- I realised games with a small but devout following are usually the ones for me, while the most popular ones (going by average score alone) are kinda hit and miss.

Anyway, here's my personal rant about it:
  • Any random entry from the rest of the list is a lot better than PST.
  • Top 10 is quite wrong.
  • Pool of Radiance #26, PST #1. Let that sink in for a little while.
  • Only two Gold Box games, huh?
  • Fallout 1 doesn't deserve the 2nd spot compared to many other titles.
  • Gothic 1 is waaaay down at #17.
  • PST #1, Age of Decadence #11 -- is this a joke?
  • Morrowind #10, Gothic #17, and Elex #38. No comment.
  • No Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, or even Legend of Grimrock? I rest my case.
  • etc...

Fallout 1: But it does, that's one of the few games really deserving its spot.

Pool of radiance: Gold Box games brought a lot to the genre but if you didn't grow up with them, it's tedious to play, starting from character creation.

Gothic, i don't get how someone liking gold box games can even stand gothic, i'm suspecting you're lying about wanting to give goldbox games a higher rank.

Morrowind is a pile of shit.

Legend of grimrock is a monstrosity, terrible exploration, character creation and development even more retarded and dumbed down than Pillars games, grimrock fans should be put down.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,361
With New Vegas almost everything is better to some degree or other: world design, writing, RPG systems, quest design, you name it. New Vegas isn't in the same league of game or RPG as Fallout 3 at all, let alone Oblivion. It's the best Bethesda game ever made, which is hilariously insulting as it wasn't even devved by Bethesda.

Is it, though?

My opinion is this: talking strictly vanilla, Morrowind is the best Bethesda game. Talking strictly modded, Morrowind is still the best Bethesda game.
I have a history of trashtalking one game and defending the other, switching positions over time. But there's no denying that:
  1. New Vegas' strength is the worldbuilding, which pales in comparison to Morrowind's.
  2. New Vegas' world design is centered around the main quest, which is fine. But this means that, if you are not interested in the main conflict, you are out of luck: most of the quests in the game are related to it in one way or another, which feels very artificial compared to Morrowind, where many quests are related to the main quest, but also many, many don't.
  3. New Vegas' combat leaves a lot to be desired, just like Morrowind's. But at least the latter is not so half-assed when it comes to your stats making a difference in combat.
  4. New Vegas' world is large but very, very empty. I'm still finding new locations in Morrowind. And this is what gives Morrowind replayability: you are not always visiting the same places in roughly the same order as you do in New Vegas.
  5. New Vegas has many options in quests. Then again, many of these options are just a matter of clicking a different skill check. Not the most engaging quest design in the world. It has some quests with brilliant branching, but I feel people overrate its quests too much. Morrowind has hardly any skill checks, but what it lacks in dialogue options it makes up for in quest amount and diversity.
  6. For the graphic whores: New Vegas looks like shit, even with mods. Meanwhile, modded Morrowind (and I'm just talking MGE XE and upscaled textures here) looks very good.
New Vegas IS a storyfag's game. There's nothing redeemable about it from any perspective that isn't "the story is interesting" (opinion, I thought it was boring as fuck) "and you get to choose your faction" (also boring as fuck, because most faction quests are the same with a different coat of paint). If not for the setting, I wouldn't give two shits about New Vegas. Give me Fallout: Morrowind any day of the week over that piece of trash.

To put it bluntly: if you think vanilla New Vegas is a good game, you need to reevaluate your definition of "good".
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,361
Pulse grenade = calm robot

Do you even know what a fucking "calm" spell is? Killing something is not calming it lmao. :lol:
Fucking New Vegas tards, everytime.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,771
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

Blobbers are a long and illustrious genre. The problem lies, like with graphic aventures, in that while you can replicate the tech with little effort, the best entries in the genre have already been made. Very hard to surpass them now.
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,431
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
  • Gothic 1 is waaaay down at #17.
You're right, this is a serious error. Gothic is a piece of shit and shouldn't be on the list at all.

  • Morrowind #10, Gothic #17, and Elex #38. No comment.

You're right here too, no comment is necessary. Morrowind is better than both of these turbo-shit games. The Hun makes terrible games and his efforts should be relegated to the trashcan of digital history.

Also, as I mentioned in the Elex 2 thread, the retards can't dress.
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
5,512
Location
Free City of Warsaw
The only sin of best RPG Codex 100 RPGs list is the fact that it's lacking Disco Elysium (it was released after the vote). But fear not: it shall be fixed.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,488
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

If some western developer put a little more effort into the visual side of things when doing their new blobbers, more than the nothing at all Might and Magic X and The Bard's Tale 4 do, they'd probably do better than new western RPGs with a isometric view...that is if by isometric RPGs you're talking RPGs with some kind of turn based tactical system or ones with real-time with pause and not simply the view.
Problem with blobbers is that they are inherently jank, especially the realtime ones. I liked doing the puzzles in Grimrock but the combat-dance was retarded.

If a new "blobber" had first-person exploring with 3rd-person tactical turn-based combat I'd like that.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
6,818
Location
Kelethin
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

If some western developer put a little more effort into the visual side of things when doing their new blobbers, more than the nothing at all Might and Magic X and The Bard's Tale 4 do, they'd probably do better than new western RPGs with a isometric view...that is if by isometric RPGs you're talking RPGs with some kind of turn based tactical system or ones with real-time with pause and not simply the view.
Problem with blobbers is that they are inherently jank, especially the realtime ones. I liked doing the puzzles in Grimrock but the combat-dance was retarded.

If a new "blobber" had first-person exploring with 3rd-person tactical turn-based combat I'd like that.

The latest Bards Tale and Might & Magic X: Legacy are more or less there. I really enjoyed both of them. They both have plenty of shortcomings but if you like that kind of gameplay then beggars can't be choosers.
 

KateMicucci

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
1,488
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

If some western developer put a little more effort into the visual side of things when doing their new blobbers, more than the nothing at all Might and Magic X and The Bard's Tale 4 do, they'd probably do better than new western RPGs with a isometric view...that is if by isometric RPGs you're talking RPGs with some kind of turn based tactical system or ones with real-time with pause and not simply the view.
Problem with blobbers is that they are inherently jank, especially the realtime ones. I liked doing the puzzles in Grimrock but the combat-dance was retarded.

If a new "blobber" had first-person exploring with 3rd-person tactical turn-based combat I'd like that.

The latest Bards Tale and Might & Magic X: Legacy are more or less there. I really enjoyed both of them. They both have plenty of shortcomings but if you like that kind of gameplay then beggars can't be choosers.

I didn't know Bard's Tale IV existed. It looks good on youtube. Why doesn't anybody talk about it? Was it bad?

I liked Might and Magic II a lot but didn't care much for III, IV or V. Are any of the later entries good?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,322
Problem with blobbers is that they are inherently jank, especially the realtime ones. I liked doing the puzzles in Grimrock but the combat-dance was retarded.

If a new "blobber" had first-person exploring with 3rd-person tactical turn-based combat I'd like that.
DavidBVal is developing this right now. I think it's Archaelund. His previous game, Exiled Kingdoms, is quite worthy for a mobile RPG consisting largely of royalty-free or slightly modified public domain assets.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
6,818
Location
Kelethin
Blobbers subgenre as a whole is overrated af. There is a reason why isometric RPGs are making a comeback, but blobbers are still dead. People played them as kids, and 10yo's will enjoy any garbage you'll serve them, so now they defend them because of nostalgia, but even those "fans" don't actually want to play this shit again.

If some western developer put a little more effort into the visual side of things when doing their new blobbers, more than the nothing at all Might and Magic X and The Bard's Tale 4 do, they'd probably do better than new western RPGs with a isometric view...that is if by isometric RPGs you're talking RPGs with some kind of turn based tactical system or ones with real-time with pause and not simply the view.
Problem with blobbers is that they are inherently jank, especially the realtime ones. I liked doing the puzzles in Grimrock but the combat-dance was retarded.

If a new "blobber" had first-person exploring with 3rd-person tactical turn-based combat I'd like that.

The latest Bards Tale and Might & Magic X: Legacy are more or less there. I really enjoyed both of them. They both have plenty of shortcomings but if you like that kind of gameplay then beggars can't be choosers.

I didn't know Bard's Tale IV existed. It looks good on youtube. Why doesn't anybody talk about it? Was it bad?

I liked Might and Magic II a lot but didn't care much for III, IV or V. Are any of the later entries good?

I really liked Bard's Tale IV, and I don't like much. It had some attention but hype blows over so fast now. It had a buggy release, then they did a Directors Cut a year later which fixed most stuff and added some QOL. I enjoyed it, it has some issues though. Like it was really hard to start with, lots of trial and error to make a bit of progress. Then your party starts getting really strong and by mid game you can win most fights with the same few clicks. It starts to drag and get repetitive, but I still enjoyed it and finished it. There are some unique bosses, dungeons, puzzles, so I was curious to see it all. SpeedHack helps a lot.

Might & Magic, I think people liked the earlier ones for the freedom, being able to eventually fly over a huge world doing stuff. The later ones toned that down in the name of balance. Might & Magic X: Legacy is more of a reboot and takes balance to the extreme. It's a pretty linear game, and it's low budget so it disappointed a lot of people at first look. It doesn't have the realtime/turn-based switch that the earlier games had. So now it's just a straightforward turn based blobber, even when you are exploring. But the upside is being well tuned and put together, with balanced combat and items and stuff. And no grinding or filler. Just a tidy blobber. I really liked it, I completed it twice.
 
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