Which Codex classics are you unable to enjoy? - Codex topic of shame

[Shannow]

It's old news that part of the rabid Fallout crowd are very butthurt about RTwP. In fact they often visit the PoE forum to kindly remind us of this fact.

It is? They do?
Or are you grunking again? Yeah, probably grunking. *shrug*

Spazmo: Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

But hell. Newfags gonna newfag. So go ahead, get your knickers in a knot cause somebody doesn't like your favourite game...

Obviously not everybody on the Codex will hate PoE, but looking at the number of whining posts in the beta thread, I assume there will be a massive hate towards the game when it comes out. Although I'm pretty sure that most complainers will play it, enjoy it for a degree and then they will come here and shit all over it.

Pft, the majority will love it, the reasonable minority will overall like it, while criticising parts of it, and a vocal minority will shit on it. A few years down, the majority will realize the reasonable minority was right all along. The reasonable minority will have been pushed into unreasonable haters by arguing with apologist fanboys. And the vocal minority of haters will have moved on. Same as always. So what.

The only time I remember that almost everyone (but trolls) was unified in an opinion on the codex, was the dislike of Oblivion and everything it stood for when VD ruled the news. Also a nice show of how much influence on opinion news and media can have.

 

[laclongquan]

The most basic premise: Codexers be here not to confirm each other's bias. We are not here to suck each other cock. We are here to complain about game, giving the finger to collective "wisdom" of mainstream audience. Just because we are complaining about a game doesnt mean we dont complete it 7 times. This is this and that is that.

Point number two: Codexers almost never agree about anything or any games. The polls only indicate the major trends among our numbers. The fact that we still doesnt come to a commonly accepted definition of RPG, or top 20 games of all times is proof of that. Our trends, our judgement change over time and sometimes directly against each other.

Point number three: Codexers are not supposed to be razzle dazzled by marketing ploys such as outsiders' reviews or shit. We form our own review and judgement to any game. There's no sacred cow we fear to massacre. Fallout 1? Hah. And now Tides and Pillars. Their qualities are going to be judged when they are out. Just because it's a game made by a beloved studio doesnt mean we dont spit on the shittiness.

Finally: Codexers dont have a commonly accepted authority. You have an opinion, you damn well are going to defend it, because plenty of us are more than ready to dissect it like a piece of shit it is.

The presumption that we automatically give high score to games without playing it first is offensive. The presumption that we are not ready to defend our own opinions is laughable. Older guys' alts may be forgiven making trollish comments indicating this, but new guys are getting the hairy eyeballs treatment.

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

Does anyone, anyone at all on the whole of RPG codex, dislike Pools of radiance?

I love that game.

Can't say I hate it, but I sure couldn't get into it. The GoldBox combat mode is fantastic compared to other games from the period, but apart from that I found the interface too tedious to bother.

The game that makes me wonder the most how it could become a codex classic is Arcanum, though. I bought it from GOG some years ago and tried it quite a few times, but always gave up after a couple of hours. I couldn't even say there is anything wrong with the game in particular. There is just nothing that draws me into the game, nothing that makes me want to play it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Lurker King]

I've generally been fed up with the fantasy/medieval genre for a long time now, and can't really enjoy them.. at all. This has implications of the following games (...) Age of Decadence

 

[Lyric Suite]

This thread is bloody great. It is always good to see self-importance be deconstructed, no matter the context.

The Codex SJWs like to see things "deconstructed". What a surprise.

 

[Grunker]

lol

 

[Norfleet]

Well it's an abstraction, this way increasing a weapon skill feels much more impactful rather than just increasing damage. What I mean by char vs player skill is that in Deus Ex even if you as a player have a mastery over FPS genre you can't show it off completely in the game until JC (the character) becomes a master in a given weapon skill.

But that's the thing. The man is supposed to be a trained special agent in an anti-terrorist force. He should already *BE* proficient in the use of weapons. Instead, my 6 year old shoots better while drunk.

 

[jcd]

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[Black_Willow]

The worst thing about this thread are people getting upset because someone doesn't like something they like.
FFS guys, this is RPG Codex, not Don'tComplainAboutMyFavouriteGame Codex.

 

[Daedalos]

I've generally been fed up with the fantasy/medieval genre for a long time now, and can't really enjoy them.. at all. This has implications of the following games (...) Age of Decadence, Underrail

Age of Decadence is medieval/fantasy setting.. don't think it's not.

Even the word, decadence, is from old medieval times derived from Latin. Educate yourself.
The game is very much set in a "would-be"/"could-be" medival time in history.

And also, Underrail isn't one of the games I don't like.. if you care to read my post.

 

[Lurker King]

Which preference is objectively better? It all comes down to popularity contests and trends.

In other words, do you believe that DA:I is better than Underrail because it is a more popular game? Or is that Underrail is only good for people who appreciate the game? What a lazy and superficial way of looking at things. You realize that even if this relativism were in some sense true we could still debate how successful the attempts to implement design elements in an object manner, right? You also realize that this relativism it’s a self-defeating position, right? Who decides that relativism is true? Popularity contests and trends? Therefore, this relativism must be false, since both popamoles and groganards think that some games are objectively better than others.

 

[Lurker King]

And also, Underrail isn't one of the games I don't like.. if you care to read my post.

You're right, I didn't see that. My mistake.

 

[NotAGolfer]

looking up the Codex top 50:
Arcanum (dat interface! dat combat! dese filler areas!)
Morrowind (enjoyed building a god-like character, bored to death afterwards)
Dragon Age (dis really a Codex classic? , dragged out filler combat sucks ass, corridor area design with fugly graphix considering its age)
New Vegas (I'm still not giving up on it, the Legion is irredeemably silly and the incentive the game gives me to even begin the journey is just as underwhelming as the first batch of areas/villages but I'm not giving up yet!)
...
Good top 50 list though, love a lot of these games



... Star Trail should be number 1 though.

 

[naossano]

As for me, it's Fallout 1 and 2. I ackknowledge that they're great games, but single-character combat of the absolute worst kind was unbearable for me. Finished both, but in the end I did not enjoy them much.

Why bother fighting then ?
Let's your buddies do the job or avoid combat situations.
You can get through most of those games without firing a single shot.

That's i intend to do for Age Of Decadence. (if it is possible)

 

[jcd]

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[Grunker]

As for me, it's Fallout 1 and 2. I ackknowledge that they're great games, but single-character combat of the absolute worst kind was unbearable for me. Finished both, but in the end I did not enjoy them much.

Why bother fighting then ?

Combat and character development are simply a big part of the reason I like RPGs.

 

[Athelas]

I'd say the non-combat content in Fallout more than makes up for the lacking combat. That being said, it's somewhat bizarre that Fallout seems to have spawned a subgenre of single-character turn-based RPG's (Arcanum, Age of Decadence, Underrail) when you'd think its particular approach to combat would be considered a gameplay cul-de-sac.

 

[Grunker]

bro do you even lift read

I'd say the non-combat content in Fallout more than makes up for the lacking combat.

As for me, it's Fallout 1 and 2. I ackknowledge that they're great games

 

[NotAGolfer]

I'd say the non-combat content in Fallout more than makes up for the lacking combat. That being said, it's somewhat bizarre that Fallout seems to have spawned a subgenre of single-character turn-based RPG's (Arcanum, Age of Decadence, Underrail) when you'd think its particular approach to combat would be considered a gameplay cul-de-sac.

Well it isn't. Popping heads, torching savages, cutting raiders in half with your machine gun or melting ghouls never ceases to be fun even if it's popamole.
Codex insistence on that stuff has to be difficult even though in most classics it isn't is the cul-de-whatnow.

 

[Athelas]

I'd say the non-combat content in Fallout more than makes up for the lacking combat. That being said, it's somewhat bizarre that Fallout seems to have spawned a subgenre of single-character turn-based RPG's (Arcanum, Age of Decadence, Underrail) when you'd think its particular approach to combat would be considered a gameplay cul-de-sac.

Well it isn't. Popping heads, torching savages, cutting raiders in half with your machine gun or melting ghouls never ceases to be fun even if it's popamole.

Well, some of us have higher standards. There's no reason why all that stuff couldn't be done with party-based combat.

bro do you even lift read

You said you were unable to enjoy them.

 

[Grunker]

Difficulty has nothing to do with it.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Difficulty has nothing to do with it.

Difficulty has everything to do with it.

A game that is too easy or too hard can have it's gameplay negatively impacted.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Difficulty has nothing to do with it.

Difficulty has everything to do with it.

A game that is too easy or too hard can have it's gameplay negatively impacted.

Fallout was too easy. And I mightily enjoyed it.

...
And someone mentioned Underrail. Also not exactly a difficult game (at least up to the beta), but boy is crafting in this game awesome or what?! I never expected that I could love crafting in a game, but then Underrail showed up. And it shows how rewarding it can be to give players different approaches to combat. The fun in this case doesn't come from the overall combat difficulty but with how you can play to your strengths and turn an otherwise difficult encounter into a cakewalk - that plus that the way stealth/combat work just feels right.
... Ok, Underrail with piss-easy combat wouldn't work, stealth chars wouldn't feel the need to be stealthy anymore, Psi guys would just use their pistol etc. So you're right.

 

[torpid]

Which preference is objectively better? It all comes down to popularity contests and trends.

In other words, do you believe that DA:I is better than Underrail because it is a more popular game?

Or is that Underrail is only good for people who appreciate the game? What a lazy and superficial way of looking at things. You realize that even if this relativism were in some sense true we could still debate how successful the attempts to implement design elements in an object manner, right? You also realize that this relativism it’s a self-defeating position, right? Who decides that relativism is true? Popularity contests and trends? Therefore, this relativism must be false, since both popamoles and groganards think that some games are objectively better than others.

No, I don't. Maybe I wasn't explicit enough: I was still talking in the context of "greatest of all times" lists, or which games become appreciated/deprecated by the Codex over time--that's the popularity contest. And the point was that "objectively better" has little to do with it, and that trying to figure out "objectively better" based on so many game elements--C&C, combat, replayability, story, atmosphere, etc.--is a fool's errand. You can perhaps objectively determine which game best implements a certain feature (though even in that case... for example combat: blobbers vs non-blobbers, how do you reach an objective conclusion to that one? You can only really compare them to others of the same type), but determining who is more "right" between the people who value one element over the others is pointless.

 

[torpid]

I'd say the non-combat content in Fallout more than makes up for the lacking combat. That being said, it's somewhat bizarre that Fallout seems to have spawned a subgenre of single-character turn-based RPG's (Arcanum, Age of Decadence, Underrail) when you'd think its particular approach to combat would be considered a gameplay cul-de-sac.

Replayability/C&C. A lot of the goodness of the non-combat content is derived from the fact that it's a single-character game, which forces you to make choices. AoD is pretty explicitly designed around that. Underrail, while much more combat-focused in general (the Fallout comparison only goes so far), offers a legit sleath playstyle as an alternative to just going in and shooting things. In a party-based game, you can cover all the bases, so the replayability revolves around different ways of resolving combat. It's not like there's a party-based game where you can go full stealth and have your all-thief party run past the final boss. And a party-based game where you could go for a more diplomatic playthrough would feel pointless: I have all these cool characters in my party, and now I'm just picking "persuasion" options? I think the single-character turn-based RPG is the exemplar of the C&C-prioritizing RPG. (While real-time single-character is Diablo, I guess.)